Upgrade from D90 to ???

Photobug

Be sure to look around for refurbished D7100's and low shutter count D7100 used bodies on eBay. Then determine if that is in your budget.

I used my wife's D90 on a 4 day vacation two weeks ago and then got my D7100 back Friday from Nikon and used it this week to take 300 pictures. Oh my the difference between the two cameras is light years. IQ is so so much better and the quiet shutter and controls allow me to shoot what I need. Don't get me wrong, the D90 is an excellent camera but the D7100 is a big bump better.

Samko

@westendboy

I know FX is better , but cost a lot more , i dont have money to go FX .

@Photobug

Yes i get the 35 1.8 and see how it turn out. And as time pass i will keep an eye for the d7100.
The IQ should be better , there is many years between, it would make no sense if the IQ was the same, the thing is how good it is at low light with moving cars and bikes.

Im going to look at a d7xxx with shutter from 0-20.000

Photobug

@Samko - Not used my D7100 for moving cars and bikes but have for birds. No issues with BIF.

heartyfisher

@westendboy

I know FX is better , but cost a lot more , i dont have money to go FX .

@Photobug

Yes i get the 35 1.8 and see how it turn out. And as time pass i will keep an eye for the d7100.
The IQ should be better , there is many years between, it would make no sense if the IQ was the same, the thing is how good it is at low light with moving cars and bikes.

Im going to look at a d7xxx with shutter from 0-20.000

What is your budget? If you want to shoot in low light. The best option is fx. You can get a really good price on a d600 referbished
Or even new. I got my d610 for that reason. And use it in dx mode often with my dx lenses. It's a great 10.5 mp dx camera with superb high iso capability.

Samko

@photobug

BIF is ok, but moving objects at night its a lot harder to freez , and get a nice photo (low noise). But if you shoot BIF by night, then i come with you to see how you spot them haha

@heartyfisher

I have seen d600 have many issues, with some oil and stof like that.
I got like 6-700€. And even that is a little short for the d700. And what lens should i buy for the fx. There is nothing to do but what for a good price on something. I got the d90 (shuttercount 9000) for 150€, with 35-135mm ,orginal grip ,2 batteries and tripod, and thats why i bought it, got hooked and now im in truble haha. If u asked me 2 years ago what nikon was i would tell you: thats a company that once made fake cameras haha. But damn im loving taking photos with nikon.

henrik1963

@Samko: Nikon 50 1.8G is a good lens for FX - be it D700 or what you can afford. The 50 1.8G works great on a D800 so it will work on just about anything :-)

WestEndBoy

The 50 1.8G is probably sharper than the 24-70 2.8. It is a great starter for a great price.

Ironheart

Yeahbut on a DX cam a 50 is a 75, so I stand by my last post, @Samko's next purchase should be the 35 DX. Then he can drool over $1000/stop upgrades, but the $100/stop upgrade should happen first :-)

Samko

Im gonna start with the 35mm 1.8DX with my D90, and see what i can do with it. As i said im new at this, so i dont want to put a lot of money in it just like that.

Anyone taking urban night photos ?

Photobug

Urban night shots is simple. Use a fast wide angle to normal lens and Auto ISO in Aperture priority mode.

MikeGunter

Hi all,

@Photobug - Simple maybe, but perhaps less so depending upon the amount of grain Samko is willing to accept if the EV isn't up to snuff for his liking for what his lenses can do.

@Samko, you mentioned you don't carry your tripod and I think you need to reconsider that, even get another one if it's just too heavy (heavy tripods are best, unless they are too heavy to take with you - then they become worthless). Putting the camera on a tripod and using a remote release will allow for a longer shutter which will make for a much better exposure in the D90 at lower ISO numbers.

You might want to just try that with what you have first before you try anything else. You can use your self-timer in the camera as a shutter release to see if your results are top notch and move on from there. You may find that opening a new door to your photography.

My best,

Mike

Samko

@photobug

I dont think you understand what kind of photos im trying to capture, moving things at night in poor light.

@mike

I understand that with the tripod, and it is the best thing for slow shutter, and i use it when i plan out my shot. But when i put it in my backpack and just walking around with the d90 in my hand, and something happens ( a nice bike fly by on back wheel by a "nice" building) , i can see the photo in my head but when i shoot it, its a tooo long shutter (bike get blurry) or i get to much noise, and iths the kond of noise with blue red purple dots all over it. I dobt want to keep those photos, it dont represent what it shoud.

MikeGunter

Hi all,

@Samko - Moving things in low light will be challenging regardless of whichever camera/lens combination you have or ever have.

As the light values(EVs) drop, the ISO sensitivity has to increase to effect an exposure. That will introduce noise to the photograph, and sometimes (most times) that will be objectionable.

Larger apertures (faster lenses) help to use slower ISO values, and hence, less noisy (less grainy) pictures.

Your D90 body with its processor is hardly a stop different than a D7100, which will be within a stop of an FX.

Yet, your lenses in the f3.5 and slower will never help much in stopping action, if that is truly important for what you are doing. A 35mm f1.8 might be the ticket - it is certainly the most economical choice at the moment.

Of course, I still like the tripod - the blurred images with the tack-sharp images could be impressive depending upon context.

My best,

Mike

henrik1963

@Samko: I did some night shots this summer with a D800 + a 35 1.4 lens - that is $3-4.000 worth of gear. I ran out of light - that is I came away with too much noise due to too high ISO.

I think what Mike is trying to say is that sometimes we need to rethink the way we shoot things. Try something different because we are not getting what we want with the gear we have.

What I was trying to do proved not possible with the gear I had. Adding more camera or lens is out of the question - too expensive or down right impossible.

Tripod? Flash? Shooting before it gets too dark? Shooting in a place where street lights are better?

Samko

@mike

Yes i have figuerd out that low light moving things is the most challeging, i mean every scenario i nail in 3-4 shot ( im new ) . But in low light moving i have missed totaly many photos. And when i look at low light gear and how many $ i can see its the top of dslr's
I cant believe ist a that small difference between the d90 and the (a lot new) d7100, in the EV.

I start out with lenses, becouse i love the handling of the d90. I will have no problem with more control, but i will not go to less control and buttoms.

The tripod thing, when i want to have motion in my photo then tripod is a must, and create nice photos with motion in them, its like a movie. I want a better tripod that i have but thats another thing, i do fine with what i have, i put timer on 2sec, delay exposure and shoot it with remote, if no wind then the photo is perfekt.

@henrik

Im more easy now about my issue since all of you have opend my eyes to the issue.

Tripod? Flash ? Shooting before it gets dark ? Shooting in a place where street lights are better ?

All of those ok, but the flash im not using yet because i have not learn how do to, i need to read and learn and buy a flash.
The pup of flash just put a ugly color on my photos, but one day im gonna learn that part to, right now im learning other things.

Thanks for

KnockKnock

There is a lot to learn with flash photography. Don't ignore it, you'll miss many possibilities. The ugly color is correctable by manually bumping up the ISO and shooting with slow-sync and an appropriate gel.

It would seem like you'd be getting noise, but high ISO with light is much better hidden than high ISO without. In other words, if you can barely accept ISO 800 in the dark on your D90, ISO 1600 with a slow sync flash will look better. Check out strobist.com .

Samko

@knock

Thank you, i know there is a lot, thats why i leave it for later, right now i read and learn about dynamic range, i believe its fundamental to know before i learn more at this point. But i will definetly learn flash. There is a lot to learn about photography, so i take bit by bit.

henrik1963

Experimenting and learning new tricks is all part of the fun IMO. Somettimes you come home with a lot of ugly pictures. But sometimes you come home very happy - you have solved a problem - you now know more.

Adding knowlegde is much cheaper than adding new gear :-) And in the end knowlegde gives you better pictures. Keep at it.

Nikonian

@Samko
Hi, if low budget is your way...
- I am not sure if the kit lens with VR is better dan a non-VR prime at 35 mm at low light conditions.
- Pus the ISO a bit higher and clean your photos afterwards.
- Think about using an older flash unit. You buy one for $30 or something from eBay. Check the manual of the D90 for what types to use. Set it to manual mode and use 1/16 of the maximun power or so. Gives you flashes all the time and play with your camera settings to give acceptable results.
- Consider using a monopod, extend it to some 20" and put the lower end of it in the front pocket of your jeans. Stabilizes things a lot and still gives a lot of freedom in moving around!
Good luck, and happy shooting!

Samko

@henrik

To learn new thing is great , when i nail i photo like i planed feels great . I bought a old analog konica t3 with a 28mm f2.8. Digital is like cheating a little bit for me .When im done with the film im gonna see how i did. I know i have done bad on some shots, but it will be nice to analyse.



@Nikonian

I belive it is better, i have no troble with hand held photo, im steady. Is i use tripod = 100% steady, but because of f: 3.5 i need to pump up iso ( noise ) or slow shutter ( dont freez action )
Low budget is my only way, have no $ haha

FlowtographyBerlin

@Samko: I didn't read every post in this thread, but just for you to actually get some concrete values to your perspective: In order to answer the question "Can I freeze XY" or how much does an X f-stops improvement provide me?", just use the EV system. Basically every light setting has an EV, an exposure value, thing of it as "amount of light". This translates to the settings on your camera, ISO, aperture, shutter speed. These values are all trade-off to eachother. Shutter speed and ISO go exponential (i.e. doubling / halving means one full step), f-stops go in the sequence of 1.4 – 2.0 – 2.8 – 4.0 – 5.6 – 8 – 11 – 16 – 22

E.g., if you want to double the shutter speed compared to what you have now, you lose one full step in EV, meaning you have to compensate either with one full f-stop in aperture (changing the DOF, though) or doubling the ISO (changing the noise, though). Very easy.

So what you can do is, go look at the metadata of an image with a scene that you are referring to, and that you took where you thought everything worked out perfectly – BUT one value, say you have too much noise, or too much motion.

Let's say you have:
ISO 800, f/4, 1/250 second (This corresponds to an EV of 9, BTW)

Now you want to go to 1/500 because you freeze that motorbike, or want less motion blur. That's twice the shutter speed, one full step. This means you need to open up the aperture to f/2.8, also one full step. Or pump the ISO up to 1600. You get the idea.

Anyway, this way you can easily see what an upgrade to your equipment will effectively get you. I.e. how much more shutter speed you will get over your current setup, and how much an additional step in ISO would give you. This is what @Ironheart was saying with

f/1.8 to f/3.5 is two stops. D90 to d700 upgrade is one stop.

You get two full EV steps improvement with the lens, meaning, you could go from 1/250 to 1/1000 shutter. The upgrade to a camera will give you one stop because the noise at ISO 1600 is as good as ISO 800 on your camera now. With newer cameras, this will most likely be still as good at ISO 3200. Getting a new camera AND an f/1.8 lens would hence mean four full EVs improvement.

BTW: The no-budget solution would be to think about how to integrate motion blur into your images in a nice way :-)

Hope this helps (in case no one explained this before).

Samko

@flow

Thanks for cutting it out , i know how it works in practise i just cant explain it. Im gonna update my glass first and see how it goes.

BTW: The no-budget solution would be to think about how to integrate motion blur into your images in a nice way
Haha good one

henrik1963

Two options for integrating motion blur:

Panning: You follow the main subject leaving it sharp but background goes blurry.
Tripod: You clamp down camera so background stays sharp but main subject goes blurry.

Samko

Yea that is true.

Thanks for all the nice feedbacks .

Samko

Yo yo everybody ! I just got the 35mm 1.DX. Its a amazing lens so far , its like nightvision haha.
One more time, thanks for all the comments, great forum with nice members !