D300s Successor-D400, what and when

Msmoto

I thought the thread could be restarted as it had more posts than about any other....

And more speculation....

kyoshinikon

It may have been milked to death :P.... 

I'm still betting the D7200 may be the camera we thought the D7000 had a possibility of being...  Nikon probably is waiting on the 7Dmk2 to show its ugly face and then we will see whether that reigns true or not. 

While the size issue will probably never get fixed. The changes needed to the D7000 to make it much better than the current D300s seem rather minor internally but important on the user end. Make the buffer huge, add more fps too, make the top readout more beefy, put the 51point af from the D300s in, add a weather sealed plate to the front, and add a Pc sync. Every other way the Camera is just as capable as the D300s and as it is (D7000) is better than the D200 in every way but the lack of Pc sync.

To keep up to date they just also need to up the sensor, and firmware/video options...

Minor fixes if you ask me given that that list alone would make the camera 2wice as capable and get the majority of performance DX shooters to stop griping.

ricochet

I want the 51 point system from the D800.  Since we're just wishing I'm going to wish for something better than a three year old auto-focusing system.  Owning both the D7000 and D300, I much prefer the size and controls on the D300.  No matter what Nikon gives us next, some will be disappointed and some will be satisfied.  I hope to be in the latter group.  Soon.

Golf007sd

The D7000 is and will continue to be an amazing body...for those that are seeking a semi-pro body. It has many of the feature current pro bodies have and price very well. I have taken the D7000 with me on many shoots where the weather was not favorable, hence raining or dusty windy conditions, and performed without a single hitch. As for the 51 vs 39 AF point, I would say that only comes in handy when one is shooting video's. If 39 AF points is not enough for a you then perhaps it is the photographer that needs to fine to his or her shooting skills. Personally, I use my D7000 & D4 for still photography 99% of the time' moreover,  90% of the time I use a Single AF point (center) to focus, then recompose and fire.

The D7200 as well as the D400, IMHO are not needed right now, when I see Nikon's current product line of D-SLR bodies. Both in price and features, the consumers needs are being meet. 

Lastly, I believe that Nikon releases its products once it has been fully developed and ready for the market. It does not play the "wait-and-see" game, with respect to Canon products release. I believe the same goes for Canon as well. 

ricochet

It amazes me when people say a certain camera works fine for their uses so if it doesn't work for someone else, it must be a lack of skill.  That's offensive.  Try using the old focus and recompose technique on flying hummingbirds sometime.  

Golf007sd

It amazes me when people say a certain camera works fine for their uses so if it doesn't work for someone else, it must be a lack of skill.  That's offensive.  Try using the old focus and recompose technique on flying hummingbirds sometime.  

Offensive? Photography, if you have been around it for any given amount of time, is far more about the photographers skill, technique, and vision than his gear. If my point-of-view is unpalatable to you then many of the topics that will be discussed here will not be to your liking. 

As for shooting a hummingbird....I have used AF-C with all 39 AF points on my D7000 and was very happy with my results.

In closing, millions of great pictures have been taken with a single AF point. Ask yourself how many were taken in the film days...how about those on the D60, D90, Canon 5D Mark II, etc..etc. 

Paperman

When the opinion that the D300s successor could be a FF was first mentioned in this forum about 1.5 years ago, I was one of those who laughed.

I recently started believing we won't be seeing an APS-C  in a D300ish body anymore and that the D7xxx body  is as good as it will get in this format. I think that with the D600, Nikon decided to change the game and leave the APS-C to only beginner & mid level bodies.

I, as a D300 user am already confused about where to go from here and what I would do if I have to decide between an APS-C D400 and a D600 - both at let's say $1,800.  One is left to choose between an inferior body giving better IQ due to FF sensor and a superior controls/body with a weaker/smaller sensor - neither choice being without flaws.

Upgrading a camera should be a simple choice for us - not an exercise we blow our brains out.

spraynpray

Hi Paperman,

1.5 years ago I think you were right to laugh and also I'm not sure what you said about better IQ just because it is FX is going to be proven right.  FX IQ is getting caught fast by DX and is likely to be mainly just the difference in DOF soon.  getting the right sensor/fps/ISO is probably the reason for the delay.  I am sure Nikon will bring out a DX Pro D400 which will have excellent IQ but it may be $2K or a bit more.  Given that it is likely to be a mini D4 (not mini D800), $2-2.5k would not be unreasonable would it?

ricochet

It amazes me when people say a certain camera works fine for their uses so if it doesn't work for someone else, it must be a lack of skill.  That's offensive.  Try using the old focus and recompose technique on flying hummingbirds sometime.  

Offensive? Photography, if you have been around it for any given amount of time, is far more about the photographers skill, technique, and vision than his gear. If my point-of-view is unpalatable to you then many of the topics that will be discussed here will not be to your liking. 

As for shooting a hummingbird....I have used AF-C with all 39 AF points on my D7000 and was very happy with my results.

In closing, millions of great pictures have been taken with a single AF point. Ask yourself how many were taken in the film days...how about those on the D60, D90, Canon 5D Mark II, etc..etc. 

Actually its only the photographers that claim what's good enough for them, should be good enough for everyone else that I find unpalatable.  I don't disagree with the concept that the photographer is more important than his equipment, that wasn't my point.  It was your inference that wanting a better camera made someone's skill level suspect was what I disagreed with.  Since you disagreed with my desire for the D800 focusing system instead of the D7000's in the D400, explain to me why we should be satisfied with an older system with fewer cross sensors and poorer low light focusing capability.   The D7000 has focusing issues with longer telephotos.  I know you won't take my word for it, since I only got started using SLR's back in 1977 and haven't been around photography long enough to have an opinion, so check out Brad HIll's blog.  His opinion matches mine in that he refuses to use his D7000 on any lens beyond 200mm.   So its not just the hacks that want something better.

The D7000 isn't the camera for me, buffers too small, the exposure mode turret moves too easily, focusing (especially focus tracking) not consistently good enough for BIF with my 600mm. and the controls are lacking compared to my D300.  I prefer the D300 body size and would prefer more fps.  I'm entitled to my opinion without someone throwing aspersions on my skill level because we don't agree.

mtkmmt

Some things are about skill and others not. For most pro photogs it's about ease of shooting and compatibility

of existing gear. For this reason lack of pc -sync renders d7000 and d600 useless for some and there is no way around it. Same with 10 -pin connector. 

Msmoto

Please note folks, this is about the issues of the topic and not about becoming a forum of personal attacks.  We have a variety of photographic skills and experience on NRF.  

If the cross talk about skill levels could be diminished it would be more pleasant for all.  Let's all try to read an opinion and not take it personally.  

The topic is about what we would like in a "D400", what we think Nikon may give us, and when that might occur.

sevencrossing

 

The topic is about what we would like in a "D400", what we think Nikon may give us, and when that might occur.

These are two,  possibly three, totally different topics

 and may be, we need two/ three separate threads

 Remember what Mum always said "I want , don't get "

donaldejose

It won't be long now and we will have the answers as to both the successor to the D7000 and the D300s.  I predict Nikon will produce updates of both: the D7200 will use the D7000/D600 control layout; the D400 will use the D800 control layout.  The D400 will be a "professional DX body" containing the best sensor Nikon can obtain or produce.  It may be from 16 to 24 megapixels and it may use "binning" to obtain cleaner higher ISOs.  Nikon will try to match much of the D4 performance with the D400 in DX format.    

SquamishPhoto

The D7000 is and will continue to be an amazing body...for those that are seeking a semi-pro body. It has many of the feature current pro bodies have and price very well. I have taken the D7000 with me on many shoots where the weather was not favorable, hence raining or dusty windy conditions, and performed without a single hitch. As for the 51 vs 39 AF point, I would say that only comes in handy when one is shooting video's. If 39 AF points is not enough for a you then perhaps it is the photographer that needs to fine to his or her shooting skills. Personally, I use my D7000 & D4 for still photography 99% of the time' moreover,  90% of the time I use a Single AF point (center) to focus, then recompose and fire.

The D7200 as well as the D400, IMHO are not needed right now, when I see Nikon's current product line of D-SLR bodies. Both in price and features, the consumers needs are being meet. 

Lastly, I believe that Nikon releases its products once it has been fully developed and ready for the market. It does not play the "wait-and-see" game, with respect to Canon products release. I believe the same goes for Canon as well. 

I know you don't mean it to be, but this is really offensive and most of it is inaccurate. Personally, I hate these speculative threads, but like msmoto is saying, these threads are not the place to undermine and insult those who are looking at what Nikon has up next for them. 

SquamishPhoto

 

Actually its only the photographers that claim what's good enough for them, should be good enough for everyone else that I find unpalatable.  I don't disagree with the concept that the photographer is more important than his equipment, that wasn't my point.  It was your inference that wanting a better camera made someone's skill level suspect was what I disagreed with.  Since you disagreed with my desire for the D800 focusing system instead of the D7000's in the D400, explain to me why we should be satisfied with an older system with fewer cross sensors and poorer low light focusing capability.   The D7000 has focusing issues with longer telephotos.  I know you won't take my word for it, since I only got started using SLR's back in 1977 and haven't been around photography long enough to have an opinion, so check out Brad HIll's blog.  His opinion matches mine in that he refuses to use his D7000 on any lens beyond 200mm.   So its not just the hacks that want something better.

The D7000 isn't the camera for me, buffers too small, the exposure mode turret moves too easily, focusing (especially focus tracking) not consistently good enough for BIF with my 600mm. and the controls are lacking compared to my D300.  I prefer the D300 body size and would prefer more fps.  I'm entitled to my opinion without someone throwing aspersions on my skill level because we don't agree.

+1

ricochet

I hope you're right donaldejose.

I prefer to think that the delay in getting the D400 to market is because new technology keeps coming to light and requires Nikon's R & D department to tweak the design of the camera to incorporate those advances.  Since the D400 was undoubtedly in the design stage before the D300s came out, its the explanation I want to believe. Nikon's D600 blew Canon's 6d out of the water and I imagine they'd love to do the same to Canon's expected update of the 7d, hence the need to keep the design as "cutting edge" as possible. If this delay is all about marketing, then I'm highly disappointed in Nikon.  We'll get the answer....someday!

Paperman

 I am sure Nikon will bring out a DX Pro D400 which will have excellent IQ but it may be $2K or a bit more.  Given that it is likely to be a mini D4 (not mini D800), $2-2.5k would not be unreasonable would it?

My opinion ? I think anything around $2-2.5k for an APS-C when there is a FF star like D800 for $3k would be unreasonable. Even the bird guys will drop the crop advantage and go FF. I know I would. Any APS-C over $2k is likely to stay on shelves a long long time.

sevencrossing

In reading the old D400 thread, one of the thing I have tried , and failed to understand is, what people want, that is not covered by the existing Nikon range ?

 

It seems people ( including me ) would like a  Dx D4  at the price of a D300s

Are we going to get it ? very sorry

 

 

 

 

ricochet

 I am sure Nikon will bring out a DX Pro D400 which will have excellent IQ but it may be $2K or a bit more.  Given that it is likely to be a mini D4 (not mini D800), $2-2.5k would not be unreasonable would it?

My opinion ? I think anything around $2-2.5k for an APS-C when there is a FF star like D800 for $3k would be unreasonable. Even the bird guys will drop the crop advantage and go FF. I know I would. Any APS-C over $2k is likely to stay on shelves a long long time.

I tend to agree and hope the price point for the D400 is close to what the D300/D300s came out at.  But the differences between the D800 and the expected D400 are more than just format. If the D400 is everything I want in a camera, I'll pay $2-2.5k for it.  But I'd be happier at $1800.  Price point and features are all just speculation right now on the D400 anyway but I know what the D800 offers and I'm not interested. 

Msmoto

My guess is those of us who are waiting for the D400 are so irritated by the long delay we are all getting a bit confused by the lack of information and the fact as noted , the technology is rapidly changing.  What ever Nikon delivers will now have to be something with a native ISO 12,800, and 8 FPS minimum, focusing like a D4, and, IMO will have only 16-18 MP sensor.  Unless, of course there is a new sensor with the high ISO and 20-24 MP in DX.

Oh well...

ricochet

In reading the old D400 thread, one of the thing I have tried , and failed to understand is, what people want, that is not covered by the existing Nikon range ?

 It seems people ( including me ) would like a  Dx D4  at the price of a D300s Are we going to get it ? very sorry     

Looks to me like you answered your own question.  Msmoto has a firm grasp on what a lot of us are wishing for, lets hope we get a late Xmas present from Nikon soon.

Paperman

What ever Nikon delivers will now have to be something with a native ISO 12,800, and 8 FPS minimum, focusing like a D4, and, IMO will have only 16-18 MP sensor.  Unless, of course there is a new sensor with the high ISO and 20-24 MP in DX.

Oh well...

Let's hope Nikon keeps in mind ( this time ) that diffraction starts at f5.8-5.9 on a 24Mp APS-C. 

Golf007sd

My opinion ? I think anything around $2-2.5k for an APS-C when there is a FF star like D800 for $3k would be unreasonable. Even the bird guys will drop the crop advantage and go FF. I know I would. Any APS-C over $2k is likely to stay on shelves a long long time.

+1

I will stay on topic and respond to those things off topic via PM.

DaveyJ

I am going to ask if you all believe, as I do that MOST of us follow Nikon Rumors (a great site, with great input)

as much as anything to try to figure out what tools we could acquire which would add to our present camera, lens, and other equipment. Pretty much everyone that follows this site from what i can tell is quite accomplished. YET to be sure we do not all lust for the same tools. I for one have been most impressed to date with the nikon D7000 DSLR for price and capabilities. I have some awesome hummingbird shots done on D300 and i pretty much use the P setting and select EACH time I shoot which of the focus grids gets used. Fast action? I'd take a center focus grid and use it like wing shooting with a shotgun.  NOW on to the real topic. The D400 when it FINALLY comes out I believe will be a great DX camera. I also might get a D7100 or a D7200 as I figure it will have some enhanced capabilities that the D7000 doesn't have. But price point does matter. I think the D7000 successor will be nicely priced and capable. The D400 will command and be designed for fairly demanding DX DSLR users. I sure do not expect that to be easily affordable. 

DaveyJ

How do we re post our user photos on the new NR website? I searched for how to do it. I did have to re-register to get on the new site.

thanks,

DaveyJ

Msmoto

Interesting question...click on your name, then under "change my picture" it should be possible.  Send me a PM if this does not work.