D300s Successor-D400, what and when

Photobug

Golf007SD said: If you get the D4 all your needs will be meet.

That is true, it would meet my needs. And Catfish is right, it's very expensive. Because I have been saving money for the D400 for 3 years my slush fund is fat....but not that large.

When I compared the D800 to the D300S to the D7100 the slow MPS jumped off the comparison for the D800.

Photobug

Spraynpray said:
So now we know why the D400 is late - they were putting right the errors in the D600.

The D400 will come or I'm a Dutchman (I like the Dutch anyway so that's not so bad...)

I am convince you will be a Dutchman..the D400 will never happen.

scoobysmak

I the cheapest birding solution that reaches to 450mm is a DX camera and the 300mm f4. .

I am very new to birding but the best results I have seen by local photographers are from a young chap who has a D7000 and the 300m f4

His results are in a miles better than guys with very expensive cameras and very big lenses

even if he could afford one, would he getter better results with a D400? I doubt it

Birding seem to be about field craft, not equipment

but as I said I very new to BIF

This kinda proves my point but admit I opened a can of worms I did not mean to at the same time. Overall practicing your craft and becoming an expert will produce better results. Notice he does use a DX camera to give him the crop factor reach. The problem that he may encounter is filling up the buffer and compared to the D4 a few frames per second. The more practice you have the better you become predicting action in what ever your "sport" might be. There are just some sequence shots that unless you have the FPS and a buffer that can hold this for a longer duration you will miss. This is why the D3/D3s/D4 cameras have it to begin with.

Coastalconn

I knew my ears were ringing It is true field-craft is very important for bird photography. The only reason I really want a D400 is for improved ISO performance. The mythical D400 is the only upgrade path for what I shoot. For me speed is important (8FPS with grip) I shoot a lot of Osprey dive sequences. The small buffer in the D7100 would not cut it and I am really tough on gear between climbing trees, laying in mud and on saltwater beaches, mucking through muddy reeds, etc. I shoot with what most birders would consider bottom of the barrel. My Tokina 300 F2.8 was only $450 (US) and it is beat up.

For me a D4 is unattainable for financial reasons and I would loose resolution. The D800 would be awesome, but I would always shoot it in crop mode and loose 3 fps. The D600 just doesn't do it for me because of the build, the layout and I would loose slight resolution also.

I also think better gear would make it easier. I don't even have VR and I always shoot handheld(another reason better ISO performance would help). I am always on the go and pods hamper my style..

If you haven't seen what I have done with my bottom of the barrel setup feel free to check my flickr. http://www.flickr.com/photos/coastalconn/

sevencrossing

excellent shots Costal are the Osprey dive sequences, the whole image or cropped ?

Coastalconn

@sevencrossing... I crop a lot, probably more than I should with the D300.. Here's the original crop, not resized from one of them... http://www.flickr.com/photos/coastalconn/8735995079/sizes/o/in/set-72157633490329796/

sevencrossing

Thanks Costal, you crop less than I do
My gut feeling, is you need something like the
Nikon 400mm f/2.8G IF ED VR II + TC-14E II 1.4x
rather than a new camera
unfortunately, as has been discussed many times, there is no cheap alternative, to a super telephone, that is going to cut the mustard
but you might look at the new 80 -400 ( forget TCs on this lens)

heartyfisher

Have been looking that the 20MP 1" BSI sensor from the Sony RX100 II (and QX100) .. I'm impressed!
Can you imagine that tech in the D400 ! that would be like a 60M DX with similar ISO capability to the D7000 !

@msmoto .. I take back what I thought about your High ISO hopes for the D400 I think you may have even been underestimating it ! if this new tech is available for the D400 it will be very close to the D800 in performance and MP say a 36MP no AA filter with 100-12800 native and boost to 51200 .. well worth the wait..

kpatel55

Nikon is not a leader anymore, they are waiting for Cannon for to release some competing models.
If D400 shows up with D300S body and 24 MP sensor with 51 Auto focus points like D7100 lots of people will buy it.

sevencrossing

Nikon is not a leader anymore,
.

I think owners of D4 s and D800 s and D7100 s might disagree
owners of the dated D3s might also disagree

Golf007sd

Nikon is not a leader anymore, they are waiting for Cannon for to release some competing models.

I disagree with this remark.

Nikon, Canon and many other D-SLR are competitors of one another, but I do not believe they are sitting around and waiting to see what the other guys does. The amount of R&D that goes on in producing and bring a new body to market takes years. What each tries to do, is improve on a successful model that did well, or introduce an entire new model. Thus, they are both leading their consumer base to an new model within their product line. I'm sure over the years many have switched places or have acquired both bodies if their financial status allows it.

heartyfisher

Nikon is not a leader anymore, they are waiting for Cannon for to release some competing models.
If D400 shows up with D300S body and 24 MP sensor with 51 Auto focus points like D7100 lots of people will buy it.

What if D400 shows up with D300S body 36MP, iso capability close to D800 and a whole new AF system ? after looking athe the RX100's sensor, its a real possibility !
PS if that sony sensor makes its way into the Nikon1 system I will be getting one Nikon1 ! as it is i am tempted to grab a RX100 ! By my reckoning its more than 1 stop better performance than the Nikon 1 sensor at the moment!

sevencrossing

after looking at the the RX100's sensor, its a real possibility !

Am I the only one who gets lost by all the different sensor sizes ?

I THINK

the RX100's sensor has ~ 123 square mm
the D300s Dx ~370
full frame FX ~860
Poor quality at High ISO values seems one of the draws backs of small sensors
so a smaller sensor is a D400 does not seem to add up

heartyfisher

Sorry I was extrapolating .. What i am saying is that the RX100's 1" sensor has similar performance to the D7000/7100 DX sensor ie it has 1+ stops of performance over current Nikon1 1" sensors. Therefore if that tech is physically available on DX too it will boost the DX sensor performance by 1 and a bit stops... this "new dx sensor" (say 36 MP DX) would most likely be introduced with the D400 giving it D800 like performance!

sevencrossing

......... this "new dx sensor" (say 36 MP DX) would most likely be introduced with the D400 giving it D800 like performance!

agreed, but I don't think it will happen this month, may be September 2014
/15

donaldejose

"Nikon is not a leader anymore, . . . " Sadly true to some extent. Canon took over leadership when it engineered auto focus to a professional level and Nikon did not do so at first. But I think Nikon is now coming back with leadership in sensors. Just look at the DxOMark sensor ratings. D800E 96, D800 95, D600 94, D4 89, D3x 88, D 5200 84, D7100 83, D3s 82, Canon EOS 1Dx 82, Canon EOS 6D 82, D3200 81, Canon EOS 5D Mark III 81, D3 81, D700 81, Coolpix A 80, D5100 80, Canon EOS 5D Mark II 79. Regardless of how precisely accurate you think those DxOMark rating are the pattern is undeniable and rather remarkable.

Another remarkable point. Current generation DX sensors are beating last generation FX sensors.

Photobug

Great comment about Nikon's DxOMark sensor ratings. Thanks for actually comparing them to the Canon ratings. I understand where that comments is coming from that Canon is now the leader and your point on the sensor ratings is excellent.

You would think at some point that the current generation DX sensors would stop beating the last generation FX sensors. Eventually sensor technology is going to slow down; in the mean time we all should enjoy the ride.

donaldejose

Thom Hogan has been saying the EXPEED chip has just been updated to be able to process 24mp at 12 frames per second. http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/milbeaut-and-expeed.html This could allow the D400 and the D610 to have both 24mp and faster fps if the RAM buffer size is sufficient. Maybe what has been delaying the D400 all this time has not be all the things we have discussed here but rather a processor which could process Nikon's desired megapixels at 8 to 10 fps.

heartyfisher

Do i dare hope for both a D400h and a d400x ? ie a 16mp and a 36mp version ..

Photobug

This is terrific news...here are the highlights:
one specification stood out: 24mp at 12 fps maximum processing speed (the previous version was limited to 14mp at 8 fps, though Nikon seems to have some specialized handling cases in EXPEED variations that exceed that). Still, that new throughput ability sounds remarkably like what a D400 would need, doesn't it? Other published changes include:

New optical correction capabilities.
Faster image processing (double the performance for stills).
Support for Dolby Labs' JPEG-HDR encoder.
New video compression/decompression algorithms for 1080/30P and 1080/60i HD video.
30% lower power consumption.

This could be the hold up for the D400 and looks good for future upgrades for the D800 and D4.

I may have to reconsider my position of no D400.

Sports

Now the new generation of Fujitsu chips - THIS is a proper rumor if you ask me. "Something" hints that "something" could be on its way. Yummy. Let's hope Nikon eagerly plans to use it for something good.

Btw, regarding the new Sony sensor technology, which would obviously be cool if applicable to a DX sensor .... this would (just as obviously) be just as cool when adapted to an FX. DX will not get closer to FX. Both will advance. In other words ... new D4S.

Kuv

I doubt we'll see 24MP@12fps in the D400. Even if Nikon could deliver that, it would be reserved for the top model i.e. a D4s whatever they're gonna call it.

Two D400 models sound plausible to me. I would love to be able to choose. I wouldn't want 36MP on DX though. Quality would barely go up, but files would become huge.

I'm guessing built-in Wi-Fi is becoming mandatory since the 70D came out with it.

Msmoto

All this leader talk.... the bottom line is the photographer is what makes the image. And, almost any modern day pro or pro-sumer body can be utilized by a competent photographer to capture excellent quality photos. I for one cannot even begin to fully use the camera's abilities to their fullest extent.

As to introducing two D400 models.....doubt Nikon will do this. History suggests first one, then a year later the second version, with one exception...the D800/D800E.

heartyfisher

I join a group of photogs of various skills and gear and I can tell you that some of the pics from the P&S owners are a ton better than some of the guys with FF F1.2 lenses ..

PB_PM

I join a group of photogs of various skills and gear and I can tell you that some of the pics from the P&S owners are a ton better than some of the guys with FF F1.2 lenses ..

No argument there. My dad took a photo a few years ago with a D80 and 18-200mm VR1 that came third in a national photo competition. It was very similar to a shot I took with the D700 + 300mm F4, the only noticeable difference was the quality of the bokeh. Under the right conditions a cheap $99 point and shoot or cell phone can take great photos. Then again, it is a lot easier to do so with a higher end camera.