Will there Be a Professional DX Body From Nikon?

manhattanboy

Regardless of the glass there are marginal improvements with increasing sensor resolution when downsampled (although not for 100% pixel peepers). In general Nikon's current non Pro glass is already hindering the current 24MP DX sensors and all of the DX cameras could benefit from better glass, we just need Nikon to lower prices now LOL

WestEndFoto

No mate, I've gone on the record saying no new body upgrades for me for the next couple of years minimum. The D750 does the night stuff for me, and I don't shoot enough sport/BIF to justify faster.

The point is, there is nothing wrong with his images - even using a dinosaur Canon sensor (but with excellent AF and fps). We can talk about theoretical advantages all day (and we do!), but it shows that sub-optimal gear in the right hands will beat optimal gear in the wrong hands anytime as Msmoto also said. However much disposable income I had to throw at photography, I'm sure I would have a Tammie if I had the need for that length. If I found it to be the limiting factor (highly unlikely) I would then be very happy to consider an upgrade.

I agree with you.

Coastalconn

LOL, I had a funny feeling I might show up in this thread. I haven't really explained my thought process behind the 7DM2. I simply gave up on waiting for a pro DX Nikon. I shot a friends 7D M2 for two mornings and loved the feel of the camera and the 400 F5.6. I was happy with what I saw from the raws. To me a camera is just a tool and I wanted the one that was best suited for how I shoot. The speed and buffer is very important to me with my Ospreys and Hawks. I'm always thinking about that 1 perfect dive shot when an Osprey hits the water 20 feet from me in perfect light. Having that 10 FPS will help to get the perfect split second before the nictitaing membrane is close and the Talons are extended..

So I give up a little Dynamic range, but I get a very fast camera and a great, fast focusing light lens. I always shoot handheld and hike 5-10 miles a day when I'm out shooting.

I was actually on the verge of buying a 300 F2.8 VR or a 500 F4 but I started thinking Nikon will just not make the tool I really want. I posted about the how I liked the Canon in TPF and within 24 hours I had two people contact me about the D800 and the Tamron. Before I knew it they were sold and it was an equal swap price wise for the 7dm2 and 400 F5.6 (I scored bargains on both).

I still have the D7100 and 300 F4 and I generally carry both with me, because sometimes I am just too close. Ironic I'm a bird photographer and I need less reach... I do read about all the various debates about DR and ISO performance, but I'm not one for camera wars, I think they are silly. Heck, If Pentax made a lens that I thought would work really well for me I would have a K3 right now. That seems like one hell of a camera for the price..

The 7DM2 is a beast though, it weighs in at 3# with the BG. The amount of customization is also great. I had to reverse the dials so it was more like Nikon. The AF system is very complex, but I think I have worked out the kinks..

manhattanboy

Glad you like the 400 5.6. It is surprisingly light for the amount of reach, I just wish it was more compact as it's difficult to stuff into a bag. If Nikon could apply their 300pf Magic to a 400 or 500 lens it would be amazing. I think or rather believe that a true D400 is coming, but totally get why you said F it and went with the 7dm2. For $1300 it's hard to find a camera that even comes close to its shooting ability. In some ways shooting Canon forces you to be better as there is not as much rescue in post from the RAWs like in Nikon, you have to nail it the first time. You should post some 7100 versus 7dm2 pics. People love the Canikon wars

Coastalconn

A bag? what's that? Next thing you are going to tell me is that people actually use lens caps too... I shoot enough I should invest in a big lens, but I'm too cheap. I'm really intrigued by the Canon 400 F4 DO, but it's stupid expensive but only weighs 4 pounds. A PF 400 or 500 would probably be amazing and I am sure one day Nikon will make them. But I'm sure they will be way north of 10K. I used Greentoe for the 7DM2 and got a new USA version for $1370 so I was pretty happy. Snagged the lens off of FM for $760. Tough to beat that setup for the price. At some point I will try to do some comparisons. The Canon isn't too awful at higher ISO. This one was at 3200.. but the day before I figured out my fine tune was off.. https://www.flickr.com/photos/coastalconn/17186830470/in/dateposted-public/

Sports

... even using a dinosaur Canon sensor ...
... sub-optimal gear ...

So I give up a little Dynamic range, but ...

Let's not make it worse than it actually is.
At low ISO, the dynamic range of the Nikons is much higher.
From approx. 600 to 2600, The Canon 7DmkII gets much closer.
And from 2600 and up, it's more or less identical to the D7200.
... if this site is to be trusted: http://home.comcast.net/~NikonD70/Charts/PDR.htm
The most recent shot were at ISO 640 and 3200, weren't they? So, nothing wrong with the new Canon sensor for that kind of shot.

Msmoto

@Coastalconn

Now I have a question....at what point does the nictitating membrane close before it hits the water? It is questions like this which will drive me out fro a weekend of shooting.....LOL

I suspect it is in a way like catching race vehicles in the air during an incident....

Coastalconn

@ Msmoto, I had a big long response typed in and hit post comment and it disappeared An Osprey dives at 80MPH so about 1 foot/sec. The membrane closes when the talons hit the water. They tuck their wings in in the last 1/4 sec. So getting that extra frame in that 1/4 sec could make the difference. Here are 3 shots from various dives showing how much 1/4 sec can change the image. Maybe my post disappeared because I inserted images..

Just right.. https://www.flickr.com/photos/coastalconn/16984798556/in/album-72157651303732148/

Membrane closed https://www.flickr.com/photos/coastalconn/14977811851/in/photolist-oPxcDn-oPNUJ2-oxjxDm-oMM7tS

too late (not sure why this link is so long).. https://www.flickr.com/photos/coastalconn/8736044019/in/photolist-ojUfTj-eiYvwB-okSaDn-fAnwkU-oCUD2s-efTFnZ-px4Cvm-cQYVUG-pfAz8Y-ej5dFb-pfAvZy-px4DP3-px4zbA-oqjqas-pfBcRe-dgXdhL-niH1sj-oGTMDR-ooD7Z9-ojUvrX

heartyfisher

I think for me the problem is not the FPS or lack of..
The problem is being there or lack of .. :-)

Capt_Spaulding

I'd be happy just to have ready (more or less) access to a place I could just sit and watch those guys.

sevencrossing

@sevencrossing:
Or, if you need maximum reach, for example small birds 20 meters away, it is hard to beat a dx camera

The advantage of the the D7100 / D7200 is the high pixel density capable of resolving Nikon top telephoto lenses

This is not an intrinsic advantage of DX just the advantage of these particular cameras

IMHO

There is better chance high pixel density Pro FX camera in the next 2 years
than a Dx camera will ALL the feature on this thread's wish list

As msmoto has pointed out. When Shooting bif, post crop FX has the advantage of more latitude in framing

heartyfisher

Maybe Pro camera layouts like D200 D300 D810 D4 are really too hard for people to use. Maybe only a small minority find them useful ..

I had lent my D200 clone to a novice for a couple of years when I was in another city.. was told that it had failed after a few months. I got the camera back when I got back to this city and only just got a battery charger off ebay (the original battery charger had been lost since the camera was not used for over a year) anyway I am happy to say the the camera is working fine.. but it was totally set up wrong! latest shots were blank ! images were set to not display / set to manual and high aperture high shutter. I had set it to P mode when I lent it.. no Idea how it got so twisted.. Pro cameras are not for novices !!

Coastalconn

@Msmoto, Well, you asked and it is foggy this morning so I did some calculations. Please forgive me since this is off topic..
An Osprey can dive at 80 MPH which works out to 12.4 inches per second. I would say the membrane closes when the Talons hit the water. They tuck their wings fully back in the last 1/4 sec or so. So in that 1/4 of a sec here are 3 shots from various dives that show how hard it is to get is just right. (These are all with Nikons ) They don't dive this close very often, maybe 10 times a year for me, so having that extra frame in that 1/4 sec could make the difference..

sevencrossing

Maybe Pro camera layouts like D200 D300 D810 D4 are really too hard for people to use. .

I

+!

a common complaint of the D800 is the lack of a U function
I would like an A setting, on my D800

Msmoto

I guess I fixed something...LOL

Thanks, Kris

WestEndFoto

I would love to get rid of the P Function on my D800. I never use that!

haroldp

@coastalcomm

The osprey sequence you posted clearly confirms that the primary factor is your skill, patience, and knowledge of your subjects.

I agree that more optimized equipment improves the chances, particularly with fast moving subjects, and try to use the best, but never forget that pilot skill is the key.

Thank you for sharing that outstanding sequence of photo's.

I did not know that Ospreys dive with their talons in front, Eagle do so with Talon's down.

Regards ... Harold

sevencrossing

@coastalcomm

The osprey sequence you posted clearly confirms that the primary factor is your skill,

+1

and like any craftsman, part of the skill, is having the right equipment

haroldp

+1

and like any craftsman, part of the skill, is having the right equipment

Absolutely.

and understanding which equipment optimizes for your mission in any particular price range.

... Harold

heartyfisher

I would love to get rid of the P Function on my D800. I never use that!

:-) I am almost always in P mode :-) they can get rid of the other ones ..

rmp

My camera is in P mode most of the time. Of course, most of my shots are "grab and shoot." I seldom have time to choose an F-stop or shutter speed. When I go on a photo-shoot, I generally switch to A or M. But on a shoot I have time to think before I shoot. Lately, I have been using manual plus auto-ISO so I can play with shutter speed and aperture.

retread

Most of my shots are in A mode, I like M when using old glass. I need to use S more so I am familiar with it. P is good when I loan the camera to someone for a while or don't have time to think before I shoot.

donaldejose

I started with a Nikkormat Ftn and set both f-stop and shutter speed. ISO was constant on Kodachrome 25 or 64. When the Nikon FE came out I always used to use A priority mode to select the f-stop I wanted and then watched the shutter speed chosen to see that it was sufficient for what I was doing. I continued to use A mode when I transitioned to digital cameras. However, the cleanness of lower ISOs on recent Nikon bodies has impressed me so much I am now using M with auto ISO on my D750 (maximum ISO set to 1,000) in the studio where I am now using LED constant lighting for portraits (with lighting ratios from 1 to 1 up to 1 to 4). I find I can shoot up to ISO 1,000 with the D750 sensor and not see any significant noise or loss of image quality for portraiture. I suspect this would also apply to the D5500, D7100, D7200, D600, D610, D800, D810, D4, and D4s (maybe others?). For landscapes I still try to stay with ISO 100 or 200 and shoot in A priority mode. Maybe I will try M with Auto ISO set to a maximum of ISO 400 for landscapes this summer? It is really nice to use the "old fashioned way" where you select both your f-stop and your shutter speed as long as you feel you are not going to lose IQ with a variable ISO. I also like the fact that with the newer Nikon sensors you can expose for the highlights and then bring the shadows up 2 or 3 stops in post processing without adversely affecting IQ. This technique can eliminate some use of 2 or 3 stop graduated neutral density filters. We are working with really great sensors today. Far better than film ever was. Also, the digital darkroom is far better than the chemical darkroom ever was.

retread

I started wit a Nikon ft and a Nikomat ft. Used tem until I started digital with a D5100. Now I am saving for a second ad hopefully third DSLR.

manhattanboy

:-) I am almost always in P mode :-) they can get rid of the other ones ..

Wow. I never use P mode at all. I am a control freak I guess as I would not let the camera control how the photo looks...I have lost too many shots that way.

On the 7100 I have 2 custom defaults, one for stopping high speed action and the other to give me depth of field on a stationary subject. I then have it set up to control aperture and shutter speed through the dials to quickly adjust if needed letting auto ISO take care of exposure up to my limit, after which I just raise exposure in post. Not sure how other folks are doing it, but this works as a very quick starting point for the "grab and shoot" type of shots. I leave the 7100 in CH as if you are trying to quickly catch action that's one less thing you have to worry about. The 810 on the other hand is a different story...