Underwater Cameras

sevencrossing

The nicest UW Camera I have ever used was a Rollie Marine with twin FP5s flash guns
alas not mine, I borrowed it when working on Ischia for Stazione Zoologica Anton Dohrn of Naples

Symphotic

.... The RED camera is a great rig and it will be interesting to see how you can keep from drowning it....

It's more than just interesting to me. It's quite a challenge. I lose a lot of sleep over how we can keep from drowning it. We have recently supplied an ROV with underwater cameras to the Navy for EOD work, but those don't need to be REDs.

Colonel, thank you for your service. My son will be commissioned a 2LT this June.

DaveyJ

@Symphotic: Good luck to your son as an officer. I did get drafted as a E-1 for Vietnam and ever having made it to Colonel is amazing as I always had many of the reservations Dwight David Eisenhower had (see the movie "Why We Fight". My two grandson's both had 2 LT offers but in rough duty MOS and finally decided to go into our life specialities. I sure have been amazed at the results of Go Pro Black 3s. I know I personally no longer could fund the type of camera set ups you are experimenting with. A comment as a 40 aquatic scientist.....
Oceans (euhaline environment) are heavily buffered by nature but we are staring to see ocean acidification that I researched in fresh water for years. Pretty tough to even think of 35,000 parts salt becoming acidified. Such trends have big implications to aquatic life. By the way, almost none of the work I did in the service had anything to do with the military, that was all civilian assignments and personal life goals. Interesting my son and grandsons have gotten into that as heavily as I did.

DaveyJ

read No work I did in the military was related to ocean water quality

Correlli

I need to get this thread back up. I am looking at a solution for taking pictures underwater as well. As I only do it for fun about once or twice a year a housing for my D700 is way out of reach. But I still need something for scuba diving, not just snorkeling.

I have been reading about the GoPro Hero 3 and it looks like a good solution. The only question that remains for me: how do you light up the scenery? It does not have a build in flash that could trigger an external one (I still have a Nikonos SB-105). Any recommendations?

DaveyJ

With years of experience in UW photography and movies I would reply that I have not been seeing artificial lighting used with Go Pro 3 Black. Which means relatively shallow (not below the very low light zone). Despite my extensive use of Go Pro very little has been shot below 55 ft. In fact I usually avoid snorkeling below 33 ft. as in the olden days I had some very serious ear drum damage. During research sampling in ultra clear freshwater to depths often at 100 plus foot I resorted to using just holding my breath and running down an anchor line to take sediment core samples in lakes. If I used diving tanks there were some other health issues that were worse than holding my breath. I could NOT even begin to do that kind of sampling today. I would also say in my judgement that the Go Pro 3 Black could easily get good images at these depths in those specific lakes.

I can also say we encountered ponds that had almost complete light attenuation (very black) at 1 meter deep. These samples were taken mostly in the eastern USA as in the Adirondacks, Maine, down to West Virginia.

Go Pro is being used by SCUBA divers. We usually do our air diving by hookah (sometimes referred to as SNUBA). The reason here is that our work diving can require enough down time to run greater risk of bends, etc. Yet in all of this Go Pro seems to do VERY well. There are beliefs that GO Pro 4 will bring some added features. Still images from Go Pro are quite sharp and as usual realistic color. Makes expensive DSLR housing look like way too much money.

Correlli

@DaveyJ: thanks for this information. I just bought a Hero 3 black edition to replace my Nikonos and I will have the chance to test it next month in the Red See. The really sad thing was how little money I got from selling my Nikonos V.

John

Pentax makes a line of "GW" cameras (GW-2, GW-3,...).
These are supposed to usable underwater and in adverse conditions.
One nice feature are the flashlights surrounding the lens which makes macro (and I assume underwater photography) a lot easier.
I haven't used them myself but I have heard a lot of good feedback from owners.
Of course it's not the same as putting a high end DSLR in a underwater housing but it will allow you make underwater photographs and even movies while on vacation.

NSXTypeR

If one used a Nikonos camera not in water, would it work less effectively because the lenses were designed to be underwater?

Correlli

If one used a Nikonos camera not in water, would it work less effectively because the lenses were designed to be underwater?

Depends on the lens. The 35 mm and the 80 mm lenses were designed to work both above and underwater. But the 28 mm, 20 mm and 15 mm lenses did not work at all outside of the water.

DaveyJ

Good Call Correlli! I sold my Nikonos V as I was never satisfied with the results. But the Nikonos V was one of the better 35mm UW cameras. It was best with the 15mm lens in my opinion. THe Nikonos RS UW was one of Nikon's biggest failures and a lot flooded although at first it appeared it would replace the Nikonos series earlier cameras. I used the 35mm lens routinely above water to take pictures of landed fish and they were good. It was just about the same as a regular 35mm lens above water. I thought it was not that great UW.

Correlli

I don't want to do a full review of the Hero 3 as this is a Nikon forum, but I still would like to share my experience with it for diving.

I used the Hero 3 Black Edition with a H2o red filter without any additional light source for scuba diving in the Red Sea. Maximum depth was around 18 meters.

Unfortunately I did not do any comparison with and without the filter I simply left it on all the time. I also did some video footage, but I am not that much into video so I can't really compare it to anything else.

The pros are:

• Size and weight. It is definitely a very compact solution that you can store in your pockets so you don't need to think wether or not you want to take the camera on a dive.
• Field of view. In wide mode the lens is equivalent to a 15 mm at FX. Very nice for "landscape" shots.
• Fix focus. No time needed to find the proper focus point.

But the system also has got some downsides:

• Chromatic abberation is crazy! It is not really noticeable on land, but photos underwater show really strong CA that are hard to correct in post. I will try to post some 100% crops later. After I saw my pictures I did some research and this seems to be a common problem with the new housing underwater. The Hero 2 had some kind of a "dome port" (that did not work well underwater) but the Hero 3 has got a flat window. This in combination with the 15 mm angle creates the strong CA. Currently I don't know of any solution to this. CA is strongest in the 12 MP photos but can be seen in wide angle video as well.
• No zoom. In some situations I would have preferred to have a more narrow fov, but with the Hero the only solution is cropping in post.
• No photo RAW mode. I know this is not something you can expect from an action camera, but it would have been nice. There is some kind of raw mode for video called ProTune though.
• Very small sensor. Again, I know this is no FX camera, but the smoothing and compression did not look very nice in some situations.

As conclusion I would say it is still a good setup. For 500 Euro (400 for the Hero 3 plus 100 for the LCD back) you get a ready to go setup that is very compact. But it does have its limitations and you will most likely not be able to get large prints from it. I am sure the image quality you get from a Nikon 1 or Canon G15 or a MFT camera is much better, but especially if you want the wide angle you are looking at a totally different price point.

DaveyJ

To all interested in this thread of UW cameras. Especially Correlli. We have used the Go Pro 3 mostly for UW video. Some are recently displayed in Key West Shark Fishing (U Tube Black Sky Entertainment. That is a 5 min. video with all UW scenes by Go Pro. Some you would not to be in the water with a camera during the scene and some UW scenes would not allow a person UW anyhow. I am guessing Correlli is referring to single images or stills? Since we rarely use it that way I am not sure at all. As to color or chromatic abereration with Go Pro our UW and aerial views with Go Pro 2 and 3 are all VERY nice and it is a remarkable system for about $400. We have way more than that in diving and helicopter costs. THE reason we use Go Pro over these other cameras like a D700 or a D7100 UW is cost and flexibility. UW housings are incredibly costly and very problematic. In just the last year we have drowned EVERY other video camera we have used UW and have never had such a failure with Go Pro. We are also very color conscious about have our video clear and the right color of the actual scene. We have had glitches in a "run" when the Go Pro is turned on and our cltip will have portions that are poor or just unusable for a variety of reasons (camera pointed in wrong direction, helicopter rotors causing too much vibration, back scatter from sediment stirred up in front of the lens, kelp or seaweed on the lens, etc. But when the edit is done the results are MEGA useful. Sometimes I would comment in time lapse images we have left very temporary crud in front of the lens in the "final" product. An example of that would be WInter Ice Palace at Saranac lake, NY put on U Tube (Black Sky Entertainment) a 3.1 min. video which has received rave revues by many photo pros.

I do agree not to be able to zoom in on a subject is bad, but as a tool it allows you to put a camera to provide unique and valuable perspective. There are other Black Sky Entertainment video we have in that group on U Tube that you wouldn't want to be there with your D700 or any other Nikon DSLR that you wanted to safeguard. FOr instance the motor cycle and chain sawing videos. I also COMPLETELY agree with Correlli's overall assessment. If you are looking for large individual prints forget that camera. On the other hand you have ALREADY seen small clips in major movies that were done with Go Pro I am guessing. So even with a 50 Million dollar budget for a major film they are cutting some corners and I have been told the short clips from Go Pro have been used at a pretty high level. I already pour enough dollars into photography and video without making it any worse. Last thought: I sold my Nikonos gear when it still was fetching a decent percentage of what i paid.
I would never buy another Nikonos 4 or 5. We will buy quite a few more Go Pros. WARNING: Some of the new Go Pro 3 Blacks are having major mini SD card issues. Sandisk which works so well on Nikon DSLRs are fairly problematic on the latest Go Pros. I detest mini SD cards. Why regular SD cards which are quite small cannot be used is beyond me. So Correlli is right on target: This is NOT the END ALL AND BE ALL UW camera system.
It's just the best and most practical "work around" solution UW system I know of. GOOD LUCK TO YOU ALL!!!!

Ian_G

CA from dome ports can be corrected using a program I saw some time ago. You need to do it before cropping the image. I did some research on dome ports some years back and found an app that did the corrections for radial shift (hence the need to correct before cropping) but now do not need it and now cannot find the links but you might find it if you google dome port chromatic aberration etc.

Ian_G

Correlli

Interesting Info about the correction of CA using a special software. From what I have read on other forums the problem with the Hero 3 is, that it does not have a dome but a flat window. As I have said I saw this mainly in still images, but in some video footage as well (but I only shot in the wide angle mode). If you crop it the problem is minimized.

I wonder if the Nikon 1 with the housing shows a similar problem. I decided to sell the hero and go with a (much more expensive) Olympus E-PL5 with its housing. I preferred this over the Nikon 1 because of the available lenses. I did not see any real wide Nikon 1 lenses that are supported in the Nikon housing. The only supported lens is the 10 - 30 (FX eqiv. 27 - 81 mm). With the Olympus I can use the 9 - 18 (18 - 36 mm) as well which suits me better.

But don't get me wrong: I do not regret that I tried the Hero 3. Its price performance ratio is hard to beat!

tcole1983

I just opened my Nikon coolpix S31. Definitely not a hardcore underwater camera but will be nice to have. I might not even bring my dslr...I won't be too sad if i lose the S31 or it breaks...seems good for less then $100 though. We will see though...would hate to miss some of the stuff with my nice camera but won't have it on the beach or anything with me.

DaveyJ

I would be very unsure of taking one P&S camera and using it UW and leaving other gear at home unless it was a minor event trip. We have owned WAY too many P&S UW cameras and EVERY single one failed early. Only the Go Pros have had an impressive track record. We have about $3,500 in submersible housings. Every P&S I have used was disappointment UW. But I still think it is worth a try. Just don't plan a vacation trip with such a minimal camera especially when you PLAN on using it in the water. Apparently this watertight seals just don't hold up well. I am still surprised by the mention of color problems with GO Pro UW as we have used them in some pretty amazing places with excellent results. We do have a color correction after market dome and special filters and I am not even sure what company they are. My son orders and uses this gear more than I nowadays. He has some pretty awesome plans for this November and will be in some very highly rated spots and resorts. He has about four Go Pros for that vacation.

tcole1983

DaveyJ. The more I have used the camera and taken some pictures since I got it, it will probably not be the only camera we take. It has taken OK pictures, but I think I would miss my D5000. I am not sure I will even take the S31 in the water...more just to have on the beach or if it is wet outside. Also being in Mexico I am not too comfortable carrying around lots of expensive gear...if someone takes my $90 camera I won't care that much. If someone steals my D5000 and any lens I own I would be upset. Really got it as a everywhere carry/beat around camera that I don't have to worry about so much. And for the price I don't think there is anything comparable.

DaveyJ

To tcole1983: I am relieved you are taking your D5000 with you on this trip. I myself would get a very small pack to carry my D5000 with one lens attached ready to use. I use a Tamrac Velocity 6X case but have owned every Pelican (and now we buy MSN cases due to price) out there. The problem for me always is the Nikons rarely get UW as we only have one submersible housing and the Go Pros are ready to go and we have covers for them and in some cases color correction slip over lens gadgets. I wish though I had more Coolpix Nikons to experiment with and am now getting interested in what Nikon will introduce soon for a long range zoom. Problem there though again is not UW ready and any housing for it would be expensive. DSLR housings are a whole different beast in that they are almost priced out of my range. Good luck on this trip!!

tcole1983

Well it has been a while, but we went on the trip and all we took was the Nikon S31 and my wife's fuji P&S. Overall I think the Nikon did pretty well. I was pleased with it. It was nice to have to take to the beach and pool and never have to worry about it. I used it for some snorkeling around the resort and didn't have any problem with water getting in it. Obviously isn't professional, but for under $100 I was happy. In good light out of water I thought it did very good. In low light it was just ok and grainy. Here are some of the pics.















Oh yeah and as for not having my D5000...it was fine not having it. The Mayan ruins was about the only time I would have liked it, but it was hot and I was sweating most of the time. I really didn't feel safe in several places and having a big flashy camera wouldn't have been good I don't think. It worked out not having it.

DaveyJ

@tcole1983: Nice shots! The Pompano shot was from our experience a pretty lucky event. Overall you should be real happy with your trip in terms of photos!

ChasCS

Strap a GoPro to your spear gun and go shoot some lunch! Smile

I look forward to seeing some of your awesome pics, which ever camera you decide upon.

DaveyJ

We have put Go Pros almost everywhere but spearguns are actually off limits for Go Pro mounting. I also feel that although spearguns are very appropriate for invasive species like Lionfish they are less appropriate for the fish i really chase which we want to promote not decimate. But I do see the humor in your post!

I have tank tested the Nikon 1 AW 1. The effective field of view is 29.7x74.25 on 24x35mm (35 mm), compared to the D3200's kit lens of 27mm-85.5 on 35mm. I'd regard the 18-55mm Nikkor kit lens on the D3200 as pretty good UW. But housings are so expensive and BULKY that the Go Pro 3 Plus (current model) are selling so well. The Nikon 1 AW 1 has the 10mm fixed lens also which would give a equivalent UW view of 27mm on a 35mm camera.

A camera you'd NEVER see me use UW is the great D800! Too much money and way to great a risk.

ChasCS

Ah, Nikon will happily drain it and dry the important componentry, Yeah these D800s are tough enough... Smile
But it's a big bodied beast. Surely you would be more comfortable with a smaller, compact unit.

Too bad that new Nikon under water suitable camera has been springing leaks. Hope they correct this.
http://en.nikon.ca/Nikon-Products/Product/Compact-Digital-Cameras/26293/COOLPIX-AW100.html
As I would be interested in one myself. Or a glass bottom boat...

Actually the spear gun comment is/was meant in humor, so I'm glad you got that sharp point.
There are rifle scopes today, with built in video cameras. And there are units being fitted for archery/bow hunters.
Capture the shot, point of impact, and the short run for cover... But that's a topic for different forums.

Yes, protect the oceans remaining species, as they are already being lost daily.

DaveyJ

I tested the Coolpix AW100 and we actually bought a Canon D20. Results with both the same. scrapped out in the FIRST free diving. It wasn't depth or crashing waves, just o ring leaks. B&H gave us a refund. I am not aware of the Nikon 1 AW 1 springing leaks. We tank tested one in NYC. But I am waiting to place an order and have to have the camera in hand for the trip to the Florida keys on Dec. 9th. We could not buy one before our trip to Belize in November. All the listings I have seen are "temporary out of stock".