Your Move Nikon..50 MP?

spraynpray

NSXTypeR

Competition is always good. I am looking forward to Nikon's response to Canon. I mean, Nikon's been hogging the high mp camera for what, the last 3-4 years?

Even Leica did a double take when the D800 was launched because the S2 was initially about 3x the D800.

Nikon was strange for not following up on a direct D700 replacement or a D3x replacement, but they did great with the D800.

Edit- I take it back- the Leica S is selling for $25,000 body only. So you can get about 8 D810s for 1 S2 body.

WestEndFoto

@mikep: You can't apply logic around here, it's 98% 'want' 2% 'need'!

@WestEndFoto: To counter your argument that if a 36mp D800 can't resolve eye-lashes with your 85/1.4, a 24mp DX never could - DX uses the most accurate centre part of an FX lens, it is the outside where a lot of the fuzziness comes from.

The 85 1.4G is pretty sharp right out to the corners. Not perfect, but if you look at the MTF chart, pretty darn good. Also, I have tested this. I have framed a full body, then aimed the centre of the frame on the head. It still can't resolve the eyelashes wide open.

In this case, the pixel density will be irrelevant as the limitation is the lens, not the camera. If the camera was the limitation, stopping it down would not improve matters, but it does. The only thing I can't test is whether the lens or camera is the limitation if the lens is stopped down to its optimum aperture, probably f/5.6. However, I suspect a 24 megapixel DX sensor could offer up improvement in this scenario with this lens.

manhattanboy

My D800 paired with my 85 1.4G does not give me eyelash sharpness on a full body portrait until I stop down. So given this, it would not give me that on a DX, where I am essentially blowing up an already fuzzy picture.

I imagine the 200 f/2 or especially the 400 f/2.8 would.

Pitch black is shooting with a 200 f2 now.
Regardless, the eyelashes can be in focus at 1.4 but the rest of the face may not be depending how you are shooting.
Is anything sharp at 1.4 for you?

mikep

just a thought i had, even if a 50mp image may be OTT for some of todays applications, it may be just the right size in a few years when we all have 8k monitors, you never know!

WestEndFoto

My D800 paired with my 85 1.4G does not give me eyelash sharpness on a full body portrait until I stop down. So given this, it would not give me that on a DX, where I am essentially blowing up an already fuzzy picture.

I imagine the 200 f/2 or especially the 400 f/2.8 would.

Pitch black is shooting with a 200 f2 now.
Regardless, the eyelashes can be in focus at 1.4 but the rest of the face may not be depending how you are shooting.
Is anything sharp at 1.4 for you?

Eyelashes are sharp at 1.4 on my 85 and 2.0 on my 135 with head and shoulder shots for sure. Even waist up is probably OK if the ISO is close to 100. ISO at 1,000? Not so sharp - eyelashes start to look mushy.

Also, I am not talking about depth of field. At 1.4 only one eye is in focus unless the model is shot directly from the front. I am talking about sharpness at the focus point.

For example, with a full body portrait at 1.4, to the extent that the eyes are sharp, every other part of the subject will be a little soft. That may (or may not) be pleasing.

WestEndFoto

PS:
When they upgrade the 200 f/2 to florite, it will be in my bag. If the improvement is on par with the 400 2.8 upgrade, that will be a truly spectacular lens and most likely give me the sharpness with autofocus that I want. If autofocus didn't matter, then I would be thinking more about the Otus.

Mickslick

The thing that most excites me about this Nikon needing to respond to Canon on the 50mp front, is that it will likely, fairly quickly, put downward pressure on the D810 pricing. While others are tripping over themselves to shell out $4k for the new 50mp D whatever, I can sneak in and grab that D810 for $1,800 or so when it starts to get silly

WestEndFoto

You will probably be waiting for the release of the D820 before a price reduction of that magnitude happens. The 5DMIII did not go down much when the D800 came out. If it does, you will be scrounging for the last inventory items.

spraynpray

You will probably be waiting for the release of the D820 before a price reduction of that magnitude happens. The 5DMIII did not go down much when the D800 came out. If it does, you will be scrounging for the last inventory items.

Surely you meant 5DII or D810??

Mickslick

I don't know, we'll see. The D600 came out at about $2,400, what a little over a couple of years ago? I just picked up a brand new D610 from a major retailer for $1,500.

PB_PM

The D600 was $1999 on release (USD), as was the D610 on release. You might be thinking of the price kitted with the 24-85mm VR. Just as with any electronics the price drops over time, that's just the nature of the industry.

limeblu

Wow, I think I have been spending too much time concentrating on just Nikon. I was not aware of the soon to be 50 some odd megapixel canon camera on the horizon. Did a small amount of reading and looks interesting, dual cores processor? no video ? massive MP> I am definitely in the market for the 810, but as usual , as soon as I commit to something another thing has to be all sparkly and shiny and make me go ooooh, new tech. I think it would take a hell of a lot to switch over to the dark side but I will definitely be watching this match. I was going to buy this month but thinking I can hold off for a bit. Nikon is bound to respond. By the way, who makes Nikon processors and sensors and the same question for Canon. Seems like Canon may have the edge up on power options. Just me talking out my butt, please feel free to enlighten me, always willing to learn something new. Hope your all well, Cheers.

PB_PM

Sony is not far behind sensor wise, they have a 46PM and 60MP full frame sensor in the pipeline. Unless you want to switch systems every two years just keep using what you have now.

Canon makes their own sensors and processors by the way. Nikon sources sensors from Aptina, Sony and Toshiba right now. I believe Nikon's processors are made by another Japanese company, but I cannot recall which.

Ironheart

Fujitsu. The Milbeaut is the base, but Nikon modifies the silicon, and writes custom firmware, and brands it EXPEED.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milbeaut

limeblu

So, does Canon have an advantage in producing their own? Or is it better that Nikon has a choise and outsources? I read about Nikon processor not being able to handle dual core, is that an issue? I do not want to switch as I know it would always be a losing battle, just trying to peek into the future with knowledge from today see isf a little speculation might help. I went with Nikon as I felt it was best for me, and II still feel that way.

PB_PM

So, does Canon have an advantage in producing their own?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. There have been periods where Canon's sensors have been generally considered superior, and times when Nikon's sources have been superior. Generally speaking Nikon has a better chance, since they are dealing with a wider set of sources. Canon's current generation sensors are relaying on technology from 2008, while Nikon's sources have been using much newer technology. That could change in the next generation of Canon sensors, but we have no way of knowing until they hit the market.

limeblu

It is such a shitty little mind game. I literaly have been saving every penny to buy what I am thinking will be the camera to be able to take me to the next level. I am not talking about " its going to turn me into a great photographer", I am well above believing that it is just the gear that makes the magic happen. I am thinking the D810 will be the best tool I can possibly buy for my area of work. I believe it contains a large amount of perfection that I can use and turn it into action which will make myself and my clients happy. I then hear about a new race, more MP again every argument I heard regarding the 24mp D5200 I own, it is too much, you can get by on only 6 with no problem. MP is just a number used to sucker in wannabe photographers into buying the largest number. It may be a great number for salespeople to hold onto and pass around but I have also done the work, put in the time, studied and practiced and I do know it is just a number but in all reality It does make a difference, along with the other numbers that come nestly bundled in that sexy black housing. I am now waiting to see if there will be anything new in the same price point as the 810, or if anything will drop or go on sale. I understand it is a game never to be won, but I am playing right now and I can at least play well. This has just put me on hold so I can sit back and view th upcoming season of Nikon vs canon. I am thinking that many others will play the same game. I want the tool that will last, is built the best and will go with me everwhere for the next god knows how many years. I also want to feel I made an educated and well thought out decision.

WestEndFoto

Hi Limeblu, my advice is as follows:

1.
Forget about cameras. They area always leapfrogging each other. Also, the days of "each generation being one stop better" are gone. I doubt that the image quality of a D850 will be more superior than my D800 vs my D800 vs a D700.

2.
The first true determinant of image quality is yourself, but that is a cliché for the purposes of telling somebody not to worry about gear. We all think about gear. That is not going to stop. So spend most of your time improving yourself, but ignore people that tell you to stop thinking about gear because you should be focusing on improving yourself.

3.
FX is the future. DX is not. If you buy DX, you will be limited in what you can upgrade to. If you are looking at continuously improving, then FX is the way to go. If you want one camera with one lens and your next upgrade will be another camera with another lens or the same lens. Then it doesn't matter. If you want to take it to the next level, it matters.

4.
Focus on lenses. They are the true determinants of image quality. The camera is secondary (but still important). Don't spend any money on a camera (after you pick one) until you have all the lenses your heart desires. For example, you may like Macro. Buying a macro lens opens up a whole new world. Buying a new camera merely tweaks the worlds that you are already in. Same for wide angle, PC, portrait, event, telephoto, neutral density filters, tripods, reflectors, ........... the list is endless.

5.
Buy a D810 and be done with it. Forget about your camera's specs and the specs of later models. A D810 will serve you well until 2025 - unless you wear it out - but shutters are easy to replace. As I said in #1, the difference between today and 10 years in the future will be like today and 4 years in the past. And even the D700 still takes great images. If you buy a D810, second guessing your purchase will be a sign of a neurotic insecurity, not any sort of rational basis for assessing how good your camera will be.

6.
Enjoy yourself!

Jeff

limeblu

Heard, processed and filed under excellent feedback and knowledge. Thank-You and Take care. I am sure we will continue to cross paths as time goes by. All the best my friend. Cheers!

WestEndFoto

You bet! I look forward to seeing more great images.

ThomasHorton

I will gladly switch to a 50mp as soon as I feel that it is my 36mp camera that is holding me back.

donaldejose

I just purchased one of those Nikon 1 J1 cameras which NR posted on sale refurbished for $145. I couldn't resit playing around with CX for that price just to see what it can do. Surprising to me is how much detail that kit lens (stopped down a bit) can capture on that small sensor. I was just looking at some portrait size photos I took at a superbowl party and could clearly see the skin pores. I do think this tiny sensor would be able to produce acceptable poster size prints if care was taken in taking the photo in the first place. It should be able to produce 16 x 24 prints just fine. Rather Amazing. I also purchased the FT1 accessory so I attached a 50mm f1.8 for a 135mm portrait f1.8 lens (could use my 50mm f1.4 but I was trying to keep size down) to replicate a 135mm f2 FX lens. The FT1 + 50mm f1.8 clearly resolves the eyelashes at f2.2 while they are a bit fuzzy at f1.8 (probably would't be with the Sigma 50mm f1.4 Art). At f2.8 both eyes are sharp and bokeh is still good so I think using this combination at f2.8 would be best for portraits. You could certainly take portraits which will be printed 8x10 with this sensor/lens combination.

So would I ever NEED 50+ megapixels? No. Would I buy one? Absolutely!

Snowleopard

I don't know for me. I still have my D70..... 5-6mp. I have a D700 12mp that is my current camera. I look at photo's taken (even from less experienced photographers) on D610's and D810's and you can clearly tell the difference in definition when it comes to buildings in cityscapes, skin textures in people, The detail in the fur of a cat or dog, just by what the sensor is able to resolve with a given lens.

I also print my prints big. I typically go through all the photo's I have taken in a given month and get 16x20's or 20x30's of the top 2 photo's of the month.

It may not matter so much on a computer screen, but in print, I can see that missing definition in all the above mentioned photo's shooting at 12mp with the D700.

No, I am not saying the D700 is a bad camera, it has been a workhorse for me, but no it does not cut it anymore.

I am one of the people that has held on to my D700 for a long time and invested in better glass and it makes it more apparent that 12mp isn't cutting it.

I have been disappointed with the D8xx series camera's and that is why I haven't upgraded yet. Not so much because they are 36mp, but that for action stuff, the D8xx camera's are lacking.

I would need a 36mp D4s to make it worth it to me to drop $3300 USD on a D810 and vs. versa, If I was going to spend $6499 on a D4s, it better have all the features it has now and 36mp.

I am waiting to see what the D900 and D5 will offer before I retire my D700. 50mp would be nice, but not at 2 frames per second, and loosing low noise high ISO's.

haroldp

My D810 (w 400/2.8 and tc20-eIII) has been just fine for diving eagles at 5fps FX (and 6 fps DX crop). AF is excellent (much better than D700).

Detail / cropping ability and AF performance are much more important for action than simple fps (IMHO).

When down ressed to 12mp, d800/d810 also has much less noise and much better detail (and DR) than D700 images.

.... H