This is NIKON rumors, why others?

Ironheart

Is it possible you boys have hijacked this thread? Geeze... Go argue about wide-angle zooms on an appropriate thread. Next we'll be discussing FX vs. DX :-)

funtagraph

Excellent idea, let's go

tcole1983

Is it possible you boys have hijacked this thread? Geeze... Go argue about wide-angle zooms on an appropriate thread. Next we'll be discussing FX vs. DX :-)

I think it was a troll thread anyway from the start. Got to keep it at the top somehow >-)

sevencrossing

Go argue about wide-angle zooms on an appropriate thread.

We not arguing about wide angle zooms
We are arguing about arguing



or as Voltaire did not say "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

paulr

Some interesting points have been made, I wrote a brief report on the D810 and Zeiss Otus 55 lens combination after using the pair for a month, I actually own them and am not an Internet information seeker. Only one person showed any interest and appreciated my findings, but thats forums for you.

Ironheart

I read your Otus report with great interest. I would love to grab a copy of that lens someday, when I have more time to devote to the effort. I say keep up the 3rd party stuff! If it mounts, we should discuss it :-)

NSXTypeR

What I do find just a tiny weeny little bit irritating is

When the OP asks something like

"I am buying my first Nikon FX DSLR and am looking at the Nikon 24 -70 f 2.8 or the Nikon 24-120 f4 "

Someone, who has no experience of ether lenses, suggests they buy the Sigma xxx , needless to say they have no experience of the Sigma xxx ether

Please tell me your first hand, experiences

If you want to tell me what you have read , please acknowledge your advice is just based on what you have gleaned from a BLOG

In that case, I've been guilty of that. I've recommended the Sigma 18-35mm 1.8, but that's after much consensus that I've noticed from DX users. I definitely don't own the lens though. That being said, that recommendation is kind of obvious as there's no real other wide angle zoom that could replace primes for that price.

kyoshinikon

Argument for arguments sake lol.

One could argue that you don't have to be a cook to be a good critic... Do you have to be a good photographer to be a good lens critic. Is KR better at photographing lenses or reviewing them (or is he terrible at both)?

I feel that it is safe to recommend a lens that I haven't used if I know many users like the lens and I see the results are good. Sigma has been an impressive brand in terms of their product and reputation and after having used many of their lenses, I feel I can recommend ones I haven't used that others recommend because of it.

Like NSXTypeR alluded to sometimes the criteria a person is looking for is a lens that is a specific focal length, with a particular budget plus factors like build quality & wide f-stop and the options are far and few. I reccommend my 14-24mm to everybody who would like to get a superwide but for most the price isn't either practical or affordable. The 14mm prime or 16mm Nikkor is a better option but what if they want 14mm for less. That is where a secondary brand does well like sigma...

funtagraph

Nobody of us knows all currently available lenses and their performances by own experience. Even the ones saying "the xxx is the best lens, period". If a post contains that sentence or any kind of absolutistic statement, I'm just ignoring it. But then, how often we were asked "which lens/camera is the best?" and for those kind of questions the absolutistic answers might be just what they were looking for.

I'd like to quote Roger Cicala's summarizing sentence (for a comparison of wide angle zooms including the fresh Tamron 15-30) "Like so many tests, this one just emphasizes the fact that different lenses are different."

If the best lens is something all can agree on, there will never be a best lens.

I'll try to copy a bit more of @Msmoto's style. She has no problems recommending stuff she never used, and she always tells if she recommends out of own experience or because she heard/read good things, and I never read any absolutistic terms in her posts. I think she can easily leave space for other experiences / opinions.

In another thread someone was looking for an advice for telephoto on his D750 One person recommended three lenses of which I'm nearly certain he never used all of 'em. No problem as long as the questioning member is aware that's not the only truth.

sevencrossing

.....Even the ones saying "the xxx is the best lens, period". If a post contains that sentence or any kind of absolutistic statement, I'm just ignoring it.

Excellent advice
Thank you

Msmoto

For sure, when the words "always, never, ever, impossible" are used there is a significant issue of doubt in my mind. Absolutes......the only ones I can think about are death and taxes. :-*

NSXTypeR

Do you have to be a good photographer to be a good lens critic

I used to date a girl who was a spectacular photographer, but didn't know the first thing about optics. She knew that she liked certain lenses over others but really couldn't give you any kind of reason other than "I like this one" or "I don't like this one." Would she be able to contribute intelligently to a forum discussion about lenses? No. Would I trust her opinion about a lens? I don't know, maybe?

On the other end of the spectrum, I have a very close friend who knows everything about the optics and engineering of lenses, and can with great competence handle the technical aspects of photography. His photos are technically perfect and as he will sadly admit, usually uninteresting. Would I trust his opinion on lenses? I don't know, maybe?

I mean, I took physics in college and high school, but that doesn't mean I know squat about optics. I guess I can spot chromatic aberration, but that's about it.

I guess to be a good lens critic you probably have to use it, unlike a certain guy we all know on the interwebs. I mean, I'll be careful with the way I word things- I would probably say something along the lines of "maybe you should look into" rather than "you must use this lens, it's the best on DX!"

WestEndFoto

I think that certain guy actually does use all of those lenses, or at least tests them. He just starts his review for new releases as soon as they are announced and completes them when he actually tests it.

FlowtographyBerlin

Guys, this is some troll-like i...t who posts a 'provocative' one-liner as his first and last contribution here and everyone takes the bait. Look at us, what he got going. And he's long gone.

No one from NRF ever objected to anything that is discussed here, why waste any time and energy on this?

NSXTypeR

Guys, this is some troll-like i...t who posts a 'provocative' one-liner as his first and last contribution here and everyone takes the bait. Look at us, what he got going. And he's long gone.

No one from NRF ever objected to anything that is discussed here, why waste any time and energy on this?

His trollness has spawned a good conversation, so I don't mind keeping this thread going.

funtagraph

Guys, this is some troll-like i...t who posts a 'provocative' one-liner as his first and last contribution here and everyone takes the bait. Look at us, what he got going. And he's long gone.

No one from NRF ever objected to anything that is discussed here, why waste any time and energy on this?

Well, photography as a hobby is also considered a "waste of time" depending who you asking "Why waste energy?" No energy is ever wasted. Only transformed. I enjoyed reading some of the posts regardless the i..ot who brought this to life.

And since there's no cool Fx vs. DX discussion going on we hang out here.

Could be worse.

Ironheart

Well, I for one think that DX is superior to FX because you use the sweetest part of the lens and you get more reach. Oh damn, wrong thread b-(

Photobug

In another thread someone was looking for an advice for telephoto on his D750 One person recommended three lenses of which I'm nearly certain he never used all of 'em. No problem as long as the questioning member is aware that's not the only truth.

YOU ARE INCORRECT with that statement. Of course, have not used the new 300mm PF but have used the three mentioned.

tcole1983

I am just wondering when everyone decided no one can share their opinions without having owned every piece of photography equipment ever. In the same way I have purchased most of what I own I start by researching online and occasionally been given the opportunity to try stuff before buying. I have looked at and I know photobug and most everyone on the forum has also done research on tons of equipment. And someone comes to the forum asking for advice. Is it not beneficial to share from our experience both with owning or researching. And just because one doesn't own something doesn't mean they haven't used or shot with someone using a certain lens or body. My best friend owns a D800E, 70-200, 24-70, 80-400 vr, and several others. While I haven't tried them all I have seen his pictures and talked to him about it. Is that not relevant information? I don't think anyone comes off as knowing everything about everything or claim it in the slightest. One isn't required to take anyone's information that they see as irrelevant and I don't believe anyone claims false claims such as acting like they use something daily they don't. However I have seen people getting a bit more hasty as of late. The kind of attitude that will drive people away from the forum or offering advice or help.

All this IMO as to not offend ;-)

WestEndFoto

I agree with you. There is always the risk that someone will talk about something with more authority than deserved, but I think that this is mitigated by the variety of perspectives and professionalism on this forum.

funtagraph

YOU ARE INCORRECT with that statement. Of course, have not used the new 300mm PF but have used the three mentioned.

No, I was not precise: Those lenses don't appear in the list of your possessions and since you mention even lens cloth, I guess the list is complete. Therefore I meant "I'm nearly certain he never had all of 'em". I also used a lot of stuff but I would not write about as if I own it and use it regularly - and I know, you didn't say "I have those lenses and out of the three is that one the best". However, write what you like and if you need to yell in capitals, ENJOY it.

I prefer an opinion founded on the experiences of at least some days use if the lens or accessory is already on my shopping list. There's one thing debating about an item and another thing is giving some information only owners have firsthand - but again, that's how I do it. Debates and discussions are fine, I just read a couple of firmly posts where the verdict was wrapped around prejudice.

WestEndFoto

It is really difficult to communicate well in this forum. All the little social lubricants and softeners don't exist like they do in face to face communications. I think that in both of your guys cases, your heart is in the right place, you make a great contribution to the forum and we should all remember that our posts are often written in haste, often on mobile devices, where we don't have attention to detail.

God knows I have offended a few people and realized later that I overreacted. I always regret that.

ggbutcher

I find the third-party discussions to be interesting

It is really difficult to communicate well in this forum. All the little social lubricants and softeners don't exist like they do in face to face communications. I think that in both of your guys cases, your heart is in the right place, you make a great contribution to the forum and we should all remember that our posts are often written in haste, often on mobile devices, where we don't have attention to detail.

God knows I have offended a few people and realized later that I overreacted. I always regret that.

S'why I stopped teaching college part-time: All online. I think a face-to-face component in learning is imperative. That said, on-line college has helped a lot of folks take on the endeavor where daily logistics would otherwise prevent. YMMV, and all that.

Consider in your meanderings here that folks do not have full benefit of all you can offer them to understand your position. A word cannot take the place of a thousand facial expressions...

spraynpray

I find the third-party discussions to be interesting

It is really difficult to communicate well in this forum. All the little social lubricants and softeners don't exist like they do in face to face communications. I think that in both of your guys cases, your heart is in the right place, you make a great contribution to the forum and we should all remember that our posts are often written in haste, often on mobile devices, where we don't have attention to detail.

God knows I have offended a few people and realized later that I overreacted. I always regret that.

S'why I stopped teaching college part-time: All online. I think a face-to-face component in learning is imperative. That said, on-line college has helped a lot of folks take on the endeavor where daily logistics would otherwise prevent. YMMV, and all that.

Consider in your meanderings here that folks do not have full benefit of all you can offer them to understand your position. A word cannot take the place of a thousand facial expressions...

Absolutely yes. I am always amazed and happy to see how multi-cultural and international this forum is and yet how few misunderstandings there are. I like the points made above about difficulties of communication via the written word, it's like fast food - it fills a hole but isn't the best food. Any modern devices from email to forums facilitate fast communication which can, and often does, take the care out of communication that writing by hand used to make one put into it. In fact, with the younger generation, our original beautiful language has been regressed/bastardised to the point of it being one step removed from grunting at each other, but I digress.

I find that you can and usually do have to search long and hard to find the best advice on most things on the net and will go as far as to state that I would rather trust somebody who has assimilated all the info gleaned through reading countless reviews and other peoples experiences and offers that advice than somebody who owns it but can have ego problems stopping him from criticizing it, or due to limited ability is not in a position to be an authority on how good it is. No, I think all opinions are good opinions so long as their origins are stated too.

Msmoto

Yes, I concur about the troll OP. But the conversation is interesting. And the thread will remain open as long as we are having fun.