D610 Followup - D620 / D650

KnockKnock

Seems like we're dancing around this subject, so I thought I'd give it a thread all on its own. Normally it might seem early for a D610 replacement, as it's only 1-year old. But considering it was likely rushed out to market as a cover-up for the D600's woes, and that originally came out 2 years ago, it seems like we could be pretty close to a replacement. Considering the main Blog shows a price reduction on the D610, maybe the time of a D620/D650 has come. Speculations?

Same stuff:
24MP FF Sony Sensor
6.5 FPS
2016 pixel RGB metering sensor
pop-up flash w commander

Likely new stuff:
Monocoque shell, lighter, thinner, smaller
Deeper handgrip
WiFi
Expeed 4

Hopeful:
51-pt autofocus
OK button playback zoom
1,899 USD

As an entry-level body, not sure we can realistically expect much more.

Edited for typo and bump.

WestEndFoto

With the freebies it is now $100 cheaper than the D7200. Seems like a real bargain.

heartyfisher

Cant see a replacement for the D610 soon. maybe in 2016.

PB_PM

The replacement has been out since September, its the D750, with the typical price bump we've seen in Nikon bodies over the last year or two.

spraynpray

Likely new stuff:
Monocoque shell, lighter, thinner, smaller
Deeper handgrip
WiFi
Expeed 4

Hopeful:
51-pt autofocus
OK button playback zoom
1,899 USD

As an entry-level body, not sure we can realistically expect much more.

Your spec is virtually a D750. Ain't gonna happen.

sevencrossing

I think Nikon, like many here, are undecided about DX vs FX
My gut feeling is, we will seem more high end FX models (60 mp D8xx or D9xx)
and more prosumer / entry level DX modes
and fewer Mr. In-Between
I don't think they want the Fx range competing with Dx range
So No more D6xx and sorry guys, IMHO, No D4xx

WestEndFoto

I think Nikon, like many here, are undecided about DX vs FX
My gut feeling is, we will seem more high end FX models (60 mp D8xx or D9xx)
and more prosumer / entry level DX modes
and fewer Mr. In-Between
I don't think they want the Fx range competing with Dx range
So No more D6xx and sorry guys, IMHO, No D4xx

I disagree. As Pitchblack says, the D6xx is entry level and the spec will not be increased, the price will be reduced with the objective of phasing DX out. The D7xxx line will be phased out first. When the price of FX decreases enough, Nikon will introduce a D500 and phase out the D5xxx line. Finally, the D400 will be introduced which will phase out the D3xxx line. Bye bye DX and good riddance, as DX was an abomination that was meant to facilitate the transition from film to digital. For you birders worried about pixel density, don't worry, as the lowest resolution FX sensor will be 50 megapixels, the D1,5,3,4 etc line being the last to achieve that resolution as frame rate is the top priority.

So Pitchblack, a slight disagreement. The D6xx line is the "current" entry level camera. But yes, Nikon will focus on price reduction, not add significant features unless the cost is minimal, but upgrade current features as technology evolves.

Sometimes I wonder why there is debate on this. I think it is reasonable to assume that Nikon is both competent and capable of planning. If you accept this, it is apparent that Nikon is telegraphing their plan for all to see through their model numbering system. The only significant unknown is the the timeline. Whether there is a mirror or not is irrelevant once you appreciate that Nikon is not going to compromise it's extensive system of lenses based on the f-mount. The cheaper models may do away with the mirror assembly to cut costs, but otherwise nothing will change.

sevencrossing

the price will be reduced with the objective of phasing DX out..

Although I am a FX fanboy. I think it would be difficult to make a full frame Kit for under $500
which is what a Nikon D3300 with an AF-S NIKKOR 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR II costs

heartyfisher

@WestEndFoto .. Right so the dress is white and gold then.. ;-) You know what? they actually made a white and gold dress because the customers wanted it. Amazing that a company produces a product their customers want. ;-)

spraynpray

@WestEndFoto .. Right so the dress is white and gold then.. ;-) You know what? they actually made a white and gold dress because the customers wanted it. Amazing that a company produces a product their customers want. ;-)

)

WestEndFoto

Pitchblack is right. The D610 with a 24 megapixel sensor is barely above a thousand dollars now if you count the freebies that B&H is offering. When FX was introduced 7 years ago a 12 megapixel FX sensor was $8,000. The body was professional grade, but a D400 selling for $495 with an FX sensor will have a cheap body too.

And 75 megapixel sensors will be less than $50.00.

Pitchblack, you bring up a good point about size, which points out that I was lazy making my argument (I get lazy when typing on my Blackberry). I am actually not saying that DX will disappear. I am actually saying that the DX sensor/DX lens/F-mount combination will disappear. The D3300 is a small camera, but it still must accommodate the f-mount. I doubt it would be much bigger if the stuck an FX sensor in their and rearranged the innards. But would customers accept a inferior sensor just to save 3 or 4 mm in width? I suppose they might, but even if so, I doubt Nikon will maintain DX lens production (and certainly R&D) just for one camera.

I said earlier that DX (meaning DX sensor/DX lens/F-mount combination) is an abomination because it is an awfully inefficient engineering design that was only tolerated due to the extreme costs of digital FX sensors (even in 2008 the first FX camera was closer to $10,000 than $1,000). It is like building a car with four seats, but in a 4*1 seating configuration instead of a 2*2 seating configuration. All the road width unused!!!! I have never seen a car like that. Once Nikon abandons the DX sensor/DX lens/F-mount combination they will be free to make a new system based on a DX or similar sized sensor that truly does take advantage of the smaller size by making the mount and everything else correspondingly smaller. I suspect that system will be mirrorless, cater to entry level and enthusiast users and will be the relevant competitor to Fuji, Samsung and Sony. I certainly really like my Coolpix A with a DX sensor and would like a system like that with interchangeable lenses.

sevencrossing

The advantage of DX sensor/DX lens/F-mount combination is it provides a cheap starting point and can take advantage of Nikon's vast range of F mount lenses
a new Dx mount would need a new range of lenses

heartyfisher

LOL is it my turn to say .. "stop it" with the DX bashing ? take it to the other thread guys :-) .. oh sorry its closed ;-)

retread

It seems to me that if you take an FX scale down the mirror box, shutter, and view finder you would be very close to a DX. Not a lot of R&D to do that. Lens may be a little different. I am not sure how they would scale down but a lot of FX glass is used on DX although the cost is higher than the DX glass. R&D for a FX system should apply to many other cameras systems.

I have mostly FX glass for my DX planning forward to the day I can shoot both FX and DX. I don't think I am alone doing that.

Enough on DX.

Back on subject a upgrade for the D610 may not be out of place. I think it is a good entry FX. When I go FX it will be a D8xx. I believe the D810 will be history when I get there.

donaldejose

Good point that the F-mount was designed for 35mm film and is larger than needed for a DX sensor. It may be possible that all DSLR or mirrorless F-mount bodies will eventually be FX when the FX chip is that cheap. DX may migrate downward into Coolpix with an attached zoom lens. But it would take a long time for this to happen. Could Nikon produce a new smaller lens mount just for DX lenses? Probably, but Nikon is big on legacy lens use so they would also have to produce an adapter.

WestEndFoto

One could argue that my post is off topic, which seems to be about where the D6xx is going. However, the D6xx is part of a large ecosystem. The future of DX is a huge part of that ecosystem. I don't really think it is possible to understand part of an ecosystem without understanding the whole.

To me, the D610 is the modern equivalent of the F100, or maybe the F80 (my first SLR).

WestEndFoto

Good point that the F-mount was designed for 35mm film and is larger than needed for a DX sensor. It may be possible that all DSLR or mirrorless F-mount bodies will eventually be FX when the FX chip is that cheap. DX may migrate downward into Coolpix with an attached zoom lens. But it would take a long time for this to happen. Could Nikon produce a new smaller lens mount just for DX lenses? Probably, but Nikon is big on legacy lens use so they would also have to produce an adapter.

Less than 10 years for sure.

richiero

The D6xo is dead. Its been replaced by the D750 as many have already said. The actual use of the model number D6xx reminds a lot of people, of the D600 debacle. That is something that Nikon wants you to forget. With a camera like the D750, Nikon was succeeding until the flare shadow issue. At least this issue was proactively resolved.

KnockKnock

Lots of focus on what isn't going to happen. I'm reading a lot of dead-end from those who already have high-end bodies. No brainstorming possibilities? Just imagine you're a DX shooter for a moment, we're out there :-D don't love the D6xx as is and can't stretch to the D750.

Same stuff:
24MP FF Sony Sensor
6.5 FPS
2016 pixel RGB metering sensor (not talking the D750 version with face-rec)
pop-up flash w commander
entry/mid-level body

Likely new stuff:
WiFi
Expeed 4 (hey, it's on all the DX models)

Hopeful:
51-pt autofocus (-2EV version)
OK button playback zoom (just because it's stupid not having it)
1,799 USD.

Does it not have as good a chance as a DF followup? ;-)

heartyfisher

The D750 does look like the successor for the D610, and its likely that the D610 is going to "grow into" the entry level FX camera. So if you look at the D5xxx progression I think thats is what you will get. So only 39 AF points. Yes expeed 4 and Yes Wifi. and Mcoc Body. I am sure most of the Software functions will get in.
So as a D610 owner I dont see anything exciting in terms of upgrades but for a DX user interested in going FX, it is a choice between D7xxx vs D6xx. as to the timing of a D620 I still think that it will be some time before the replacement comes. it needs more time to "grow down" into the "entry level" position.

spraynpray

I thought that your scenario would make sense, but then perhaps the lack of monowheel entry level FX's is deliberate to indicate they are more 'serious' than entry level DX's?

sevencrossing

Nikon were surprised how well the D800 sold, may be the D750 is selling better than expected . The big attraction of the D610, at moment is the price . but a replacement would be nearer the cost of a D750 so not so attractive.

Nikon tried to make the D600 as cheap as possible, it did not turn out to be a good move

sevencrossing

You guys have to remember, there are parts of the world where a few hundred dollars in price is a huge difference..

Agreed. Which is why Nikon make great bangs for your bucks Dx Cameras
Then there is the "I want the best and I prepared to pay for it" Market which why Nikon make some excellent rather expensive Fx Cameras.

donaldejose

Consider this: The D610 has a great sensor and the body is fine. Those wouldn't need to be replaced. Nikon could simply add a better AF module, add the improved jpg image processing software they put into the newest bodies, add a bit more buffer, etc. In other words, Nikon could simply upgrade the D610 with off the shelf parts which wouldn't cost them much money and keep the price low. I think this is what they will do. Another way to look it if for those who use the term "crippling" is that Nikon can produce a significantly better camera by simply removing some of the crippling.

sevencrossing

In other words, Nikon could simply upgrade the D610 with off the shelf parts which wouldn't cost them much money and keep the price low.

Let be honest. Neither you , me, or anyone else on nrf, have the foggiest idea how this would or would not cost

I suspect the component parts of a D610 play a very small part in its retail price

look at the difference in the cost of a sheet of 10x8 and a sheet of 20 x16 photo paper

then look at what a wedding photographer is going to charge for a 10x 8 and a 20 x 16 print

sevencrossing

If Apple were running Nikon,

It would be bad news for Apple and bad news for Nikon
Two completely different product lines