More Praise for Nikon

MaxBerlin

Some new posts on Sony v Nikon

https://sonyvnikon.wordpress.com/2015/05/12/dynamic-range-resolution-14-bit-color-nikon-delivers/

CaMeRaQuEsT

Exact reason why my next camera is going to be a D5300 and not an Alpha A6000: their RAW compression is even worse than my D3300's. Also, their line-up of lenses are a joke: low sharpness, exorbitant prices. Like the author writes: their bodies are at deep discounts for a reason.

ThomasHorton

While it is nice to read nice opinions about Nikon, we do have to keep in mind that this article is just one person's opinion.

PB_PM

It has been noted by several professional reviewers that Sony's RAW files are somewhat inferior due to heavy handed compression, so to say this is just one person's opinion is not true. As to whether the level of compression is enough of a reason to choose one brand over another, to me that is more debatable. I say that because people tend to pick mirrorless cameras due to size, rather than absolute superiority over competing DSLRs.

Ironheart

Actually Thomas, MaxBerlin has backed up this opinion with a multitude of facts. I'll let him show you where those are, but he was actually criticized for providing too much information and graphs that take a PhD to decipher ;-)

manhattanboy

Actually Thomas, MaxBerlin has backed up this opinion with a multitude of facts. I'll let him show you where those are, but he was actually criticized for providing too much information and graphs that take a PhD to decipher ;-)

It seems everyone wants something different. I value the contribution, but wonder if rather than the OP reading as a click-link advertisement for his own blog, he could perhaps ask a stimulating question with some of his data here in the forum. A discussion rather than a white paper is more interesting, but that is of course what I prefer and others perhaps just the opposite.

NSXTypeR

Max, not to be harsh or anything, your threads tend to link back to your blog and that's generally not okay here.

sevencrossing

Max, not to be harsh or anything, your threads tend to link back to your blog and that's generally not okay here.

+1

I will never understand what is and what is not, allowed.
Some valid and interesting threads get closed or deleted within seconds

other, such as this one, which is clearly a plug for SONYVNIKON are allowed

haroldp

As an active user of both Nikon and Sony, my observations are:

1- Comments / analysis about the loss of some DR in some conditions due to Sony's 11-7 bit compression are accurate. Leica had a similar scheme.

2- The conditions under which these would be noticeable are both specific (high contrast boundary conditions / extreme enlargement / very fine tonality gradation) and tend to the extreme end of lighting conditions.

3- Choice of camera to use is usually dictated by other factors (lens choice, subject movement, size weight etc.).

The reason I am very critical of Sony on this issue, is that there is no benefit to this trade off. Similar file sizes can be achieved using well known loss less compression techniques without these degradations. Even very slight degradation is a bad idea when nothing positive is achieved on the other side of the trade-off, it is simple incompetence.

.... H

NSXTypeR

Just to expand on my previous short post-

I've been on a few forums and the general rule for forums is not to promote your own site. Or if you do promote your own site, do it once and that's it.

Max, you've posted three separate threads that link back to your own site. I'm not sure why mods allowed it, but we get that you run a separate site. If you want to advertise your site do so by contacting Nikon Rumors, but don't use it to broadcast your own site and blog postings.

You're free to contribute, but I hope you don't just keep posting links to your blog. That's not contributing, that's asking for more clicks to your site.

Edited- I meant site, not work above.

birdman

How about a friendly compromise -- think of when Obama served round of beers at the White House with the renowned Harvard Professor (Af. Amer guy - GATES? ) and the white police officer invoived in the fracas.

So a compromise may be that above NR member include (IN signature line only) a link/reminder to his blog/site using less crayola - friendly colors that Mr Rockwell utilizes to hypnotize his readers into clicking his shameless link before buy their gear. I've used him plenty of times....great knowledge until you catch on to his sells strategies.

WestEndFoto

As an active user of both Nikon and Sony, my observations are:

1- Comments / analysis about the loss of some DR in some conditions due to Sony's 11-7 bit compression are accurate. Leica had a similar scheme.

2- The conditions under which these would be noticeable are both specific (high contrast boundary conditions / extreme enlargement / very fine tonality gradation) and tend to the extreme end of lighting conditions.

3- Choice of camera to use is usually dictated by other factors (lens choice, subject movement, size weight etc.).

The reason I am very critical of Sony on this issue, is that there is no benefit to this trade off. Similar file sizes can be achieved using well known loss less compression techniques without these degradations. Even very slight degradation is a bad idea when nothing positive is achieved on the other side of the trade-off, it is simple incompetence.

.... H

If I am spending a thousand dollars on a camera, I will accept a tradeoff like that. But I don't accept a trade off like that if I am buying top off the line. I can't imagine that Sony is aspiring to be anything more than a consumer line if they are doing stuff like this.

PB_PM

Considering that consumers (mostly in the 40-75 year old bracket) are the number one group of high end camera buyers today (by high end I mean anything with an interchangeable lens, or over $499), I don't think Sony is too concerned about targeting a large segment of tech nerds. Most consumers are not tech nerds, even if they try to come across that way. All Sony needs to do is nab enough non tech centric pros to say, "hey pros use these cameras, and you should too." That's all that Nikon, Canon, Pentax etc have ever done.

Over time it is well known that the best product available is not always the winner in race to win the hearts and minds of consumers (including pros), so why would it be any different with cameras? I think those of us on a forum like this tend to be at least a little tech savvy, but the general camera buyer doesn't give two bits as long as it uses the lenses they want and it does what they need. 9 times out of 10 you wouldn't notice the difference between a D800 image and a Sony A7r, short of a poster sized print or chimping. As noted in other threads, all cameras are a compromise, it's just a question of what areas of compromise are acceptable to the person who is looking to make the purchase.

haroldp

@PB_PM

Your points are all correct.

My point is that a trade off is usually give something, get something.

In this case Sony gives up something (IQ however small), and gets nothing.

I still use the A7II because it gives me other things like VR for Leica lenses, but it's compression scheme is simply stupid.

... H

donaldejose

Another side:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4GTBkCxjcI

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wM_5nROeaw

funtagraph

Don't want to fight about words, but I think @PB_BM, your definition about high-end is off target by a quarter mile or so

"(by high end I mean anything with an interchangeable lens, or over $499)" Why not write "bigger than a cellphone, plus a lens to be mount after unboxing and changed never after"?

spraynpray

Considering that consumers (mostly in the 40-75 year old bracket) are the number one group of high end camera buyers today etc. etc.

I think that explains the sales of retro bodies too.

MaxBerlin

Apologies if I violated forum rules. The blog is non income producing and is only meant to relay the testing results of the A7r vs the D810.

I've tried to be unbiased but the D810 continues to reveal its greatness in many ways the Sony does not.

If I posted 'testing results' in the forum without a link would that be acceptable ?

Spraynpray - I tried to reply directly to your message but got an error that it was unallowed.

MaxBerlin

Like many, I am trying to figure out when the 'compromise' is worth it - meaning when should I use the A7r.

Because the Nikon doesn't have a reticulating screen there are practical limits on how low of a position one can shoot and critically focus the D810 from.

The use of alternate glass (old Leica, C/Y) is also in favor of an A7r. But at the core of it one always loses ~20% resolution, a significant amount of distinct color values and the EVF does not serve critical focus as well as a 3x loupe on the D810.

Additionally, Nikon almost always gets WB correct and if you underexpose (like I did for 100+ images) the massive dynamic range of the D810 makes this a non-issue.

spraynpray

Apologies if I violated forum rules. The blog is non income producing and is only meant to relay the testing results of the A7r vs the D810.

I've tried to be unbiased but the D810 continues to reveal it's greatness in many ways the Sony does not.

If I posted 'testing results' in the forum without a link would that be acceptable ?

Spraynpray - I tried to reply directly to your message but got an error that it was unallowed.

That's OK max, no worries.

MaxBerlin

Spraynpray - to my horror I just noticed that the first post in this thread had a commercial link added a 'shopping link added by skim words' One can notice it be hovering over the words Sony v nikon.

I did not add that link when I originally posted. Is there a way you can please remove it ?

spraynpray

No Max, that is not your fault, don't worry about that.

sevencrossing

I did not add that link when I originally posted. Is there a way you can please remove it ?

I believe The links are added automatically
I dont think it is possible to remove them
some information here http://nikonrumors.com/2012/09/01/privacy-policy.aspx/
under (vi) Third Party Ad Servers

MaxBerlin

I thought that might be the reason I was in hot water.

spraynpray

For clarity: If you post a link to your own site and it is relevant to the thread you posted it on, no problem (unless the motivation for posting it is to further your own interests). If you post an irrelevant link (spam), you will get banned.

WestEndFoto

Like many, I am trying to figure out when the 'compromise' is worth it - meaning when should I use the A7r.

Because the Nikon doesn't have a reticulating screen there are practical limits on how low of a position one can shoot and critically focus the D810 from.

The use of alternate glass (old Leica, C/Y) is also in favor of an A7r. But at the core of it one always loses ~20% resolution, a significant amount of distinct color values and the EVF does not serve critical focus as well as a 3x loupe on the D810.

Additionally, Nikon almost always gets WB correct and if you underexpose (like I did for 100+ images) the massive dynamic range of the D810 makes this a non-issue.

Buy the right angle eyepiece. It is a couple of hundred at B&H if I recall. I use it on my D800.

Perhaps your only reason for owning Sony just disappeared?