D500 General Discussion Thread

Ironheart

I'd argue that way more than 1% of the pros that buy a D5 need (meaning can put to good use) 12fps. There are film cameras that can go this fast. There is much merit in designing a camera that hits the sweet spot of features and cost. I'm sure Nikon has a whole team of folks that think about exactly that when making a new camera. In fact they probably set the cost before considering a single feature on all but the single digit pro series where cost is less of a consideration.

Paperman

10 fps ... D5 still 20% faster so than the D500 so that the 1% that really needs 12 fps can go for it for twice the money.

Hope it makes "substance" , PB_PM ....

heartyfisher

If i do get the d500.. then i would be setting up my usual raw + jpg.. with raw going to the xqd and jpg going to the sd. I belief that should give me the full 200 shot buffer. No?

Michael

heartyfisher said:

If i do get the d500.. then i would be setting up my usual raw + jpg.. with raw going to the xqd and jpg going to the sd. I belief that should give me the full 200 shot buffer. No?

No. See my post a few back (perhaps on the prior page). Depending on the size (L, M, S), quality (Fine, Normal, Basic), and the compression approach (quality, size), you'll have various buffer depths. 14-bit lossless NEF + Fine*Large provides about a 32 shot buffer; NEF + NEF provides about a 38 shot buffer (but larger files); NEF + Basic*Large provides about a 42 shot buffer....

Ironheart

@Michael what brand/speed are you using? I am using the lexar 2000x cards claiming 260MB/sec write speed and getting close to 100 frames before buffer fill

heartyfisher

Michael said:

heartyfisher said:

If i do get the d500.. then i would be setting up my usual raw + jpg.. with raw going to the xqd and jpg going to the sd. I belief that should give me the full 200 shot buffer. No?

No. See my post a few back (perhaps on the prior page). Depending on the size (L, M, S), quality (Fine, Normal, Basic), and the compression approach (quality, size), you'll have various buffer depths. 14-bit lossless NEF + Fine*Large provides about a 32 shot buffer; NEF + NEF provides about a 38 shot buffer (but larger files); NEF + Basic*Large provides about a 42 shot buffer....

That does not sound right .. where are you getting your info from ?

heartyfisher

I found some tests ... re D500 buffer.. http://www.cameramemoryspeed.com/nikon-d500/sd-and-xqd-card-speed-test/ at the end there is info regarding Raw to XQD and Jpg to SD. Still not clear.. if the numbers are MB per sec or number of pics ...

Note that they are using uncompressed raw. With compressed raw it should be much faster. so I still cant find clear info with lossless compressed raw to XQD and Fine JPG to SD.

Michael

Ironheart and heartyfisher:

I tested the D500 at the Osaka Nikon salon, a production model with firmware 1.0. I panned the camera around, this was not a lens-cap-on test (which would increase buffer depth, but be unrealistic); although I doubt it made much difference I did have most settings on (e.g., active D-lighting, auto distortion control, VR, auto ISO, etc.). I was shooting 14-bit lossless compressed NEFs (and various JPEGs as backup).

I focused my testing on the Lexar XQD 2.0 2933x 32GB card, and the Toshiba Exceria Pro UHS-II 64GB SD card claiming write speeds up to 240 MB/s.

In the SD only test (no backup file), the UHS-II SD card achieved 48 frames; by comparison, my UHS-I card (Toshiba Exceria Type I) achieved 37 frames, and my slower than molasses old $20 SD card achieved 29 frames. The camera reported "r28" for remaining buffer at the beginning of each of these tests.

Note that the www.cameramemoryspeed.com tests are useful for comparing cards, but their main D500 tests were not of buffer depth, rather, they were testing the number frames achieved in 30 seconds.

Ironheart

The best buffer depths are with all of the settings you mentioned turned off. You may not get the advertised 200 frames with active d-lighting, VR, distortion, auto ISO turned on on an XQD card either.

Page 117 in the D500 manual, this note refers to the CH setting:
"Average frame rate with an EN-EL15 battery, continuous-servo AF, manual or shutter-priority auto exposure, a shutter speed of 1/250 s or faster, remaining settings (or in the case of CL, remaining settings other than Custom Setting d1) at default values, and memory remaining in memory buffer. The stated rates may not be available under some conditions. Frame rates may drop at high ISO sensitivities (Hi 0.3–Hi 5) or at extremely small apertures (high f-numbers) or slow shutter speeds, when vibration reduction (available with VR lenses) or auto ISO sensitivity control (pg 125) is on, or if the battery is low, a non-CPU lens is attached, Aperture ring is selected for Custom Setting f4 (Customize command dials) > Aperture setting (pg 302), or flicker is detected when flicker reduction is enabled in the photo shooting menu (pg 234)."

Again on page 388:
1 All figures are approximate. File size varies with scene recorded.
2 Maximum number of exposures that can be stored in memory buffer at ISO 100. Drops at image qualities marked with a star (“★”) or if auto distortion control is on.
3 Figures assume size-priority JPEG compression. Selecting an image-quality option marked
with a star (“★”; optimal compression) increases the file size of JPEG images; number of images and buffer capacity drop accordingly.

I'll run some tests in the next few days and post some numbers using the lexar 2000 SD as backup as I haven't done that yet.

manhattanboy

DPreview mini review of the D500 is up:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d500-first-impressions-review

I spent many hours shooting the D500 the past several days. Here's some initial observations that mirror some previous comments, but add some things I have not seen posted anywhere yet.

1) [already noted] The XQD card makes a word of difference for shooting. Compared to the fastest Extreme Pro SanDisk SD cards, the fastest Lexar XQD cards are amazing. You can just shoot and shoot and keep going. With the SD card you can get the bursts off, but the clearance time is so long I found that 2 or 3 shooting bursts later, the camera would stutter and not take a shot as it was waiting to write to the card.

2) [haven't seen this mentioned yet] Battery life is indeed an issue (even with BT turned off) if you use 3D tracking. It seems that the 3D tracking feature is using a lot of juice. Those having battery problems, switch AF mode to something else like group or single.

3) [haven't seen many comments on this yet] The regular shutter is still too loud for my taste but the QC shutter is a VERY NICE addition. The QC mode is slow (~3fps) but is much more discrete, and its character is a little different from the QC 810 mode in that it is two softer sounds. As an aside, if Nikon is reading this, PLEASE (!) add silent shooting mode from the LCD (like you can do from the D5) in a future firmware update.

4) [already noted] AF is very good using f4 lenses, much better than the D810. However, the group AF as Brad noted on his blog is NOT as useful in the D500 as it is in the D810 as it covers too much of the frame. It would be interesting to know if single point AF is using the surrounding unselectable AF points, in which case single point would be acting like a DX version of group AF. Does anyone know if this is the case?

Hit me up with anything else you want to know.

Hank

Going to Be a Great Camera - But Not Ready for Prime Time

Pros : High Frame Rate, Quiet Shutter, Low Light Performance, Light Weight, User Controls
Cons : No Third Party Batteries, Outdated Displays, Poor Build Quality, Poor Battery Life
Best Uses : Low Light, Weddings, Action, Sports
Was this a gift? : No

This camera is replacing a Nikon D300 and is working in the same bag as a D7200. These are just initial impressions, since I only did two assignments with the body before it went back.

Pros:

Fast! The frame rate and buffer capacity on this body are outstanding - you find yourself dialing back out of CH because you just don't need the frames at processing time.

Quiet! There is almost no difference between Quiet Mode and Regular, both are very quiet especially compared to the clatter of the D300. No more evil stares at the wedding vow alter. Very nice.

ISO! This thing can literally see in the dark, I can almost (but not quite) retire my strobe for indoor portraiture. Pair this with a fast prime lens and you're in business, plus those super-zoom DX VR "street sweepers" look very darn good too. Noise up to 6400 ISO is generally not noticeable - no comparison to the D300, where 3200 is a Devil's bargain between a bad image and no image at all. Superior to the D7200, but not a quantum leap.

Controls! I was prepared to hate the changes, but I have to say Nikon did a good job with these. Didn't think I would use the "joystick", but it works, and it grows on you fast. I wish there were more switches, specifically, I hate the way focus control requires pressing and wheeling, and the "info" buttons are a bit confusing, but overall we didn't lose any ground, and we probably did better.

Light weight! I know some people like the "heft" factor, but this camera is lighter than the D300, and it doesn't need the battery grip to be fast. If I need to lift weight, I'll go to the gym.

Meh:

Finder. I read the claims, but I don't see much difference. It's too small, and there is no help for manual focus, but then it isn't a D5 and didn't cost $6,500.

No pop-up flash. Yeah we're supposed to be too good for that, and it's a gimmick, but we've all used them in a pinch. The ISO performance will sure cut down on the need for it, and a small SB-400 type flash is easy to carry.

Focus Control. Would have been nice to have a simple switch like the D300, but we have more modes to choose from, so ok.

Displays. Couldn't we please get some update from the 1990s on this? It looks just like the N90 I had in 1994.

Battery life. Shorter than the D300, significantly. I guess it takes more juice to run these wonderful features, which is understandable. Either get the grip or pack extra batteries - oh, and the third party batteries won't work.

Cons:

Build quality. The auto focus was just plain broken. I'm assuming this one is just a lemon, because I have not seen this mentioned elsewhere, but mine sure didn't work in AFS-S or C mode for single point. Low light focus was just plain bad with any type of DOF in play. I had to switch back to the D300 on the fly. When I had time to experiment, it would not work with any of three recent Nikon AF lenses - always focused short of the target. As a footnote, the error was more than the "fine-tune" feature could compensate for. It wasn't the lenses, it wasn't user error, it wasn't Sasquatch or swamp gas, it was just-plain-broken.

Chips. Repeated errors with brand new Lexar 1000x 128GB SD card. Nothing makes you feel happy and cheerful like an "Err" "Card unrecognized" error in the middle of a job. Especially when it's over and over. Turning off the camera cleared the error, but then it came back every time. Just-plain-broken. No problems with the XQD port -yet.

Third Party Batteries. They don't work, don't even bother. Not sure what Nikon thinks it's gaining here, but it isn't love.

Cost. Yeah, I get that it's the "Pro DX", and "flagship" and all, but $2,000? That's almost double the full-boat price of the D7200, and it ain't twice the camera.

Nikon Customer Service. You might think that they would offer some love in this type of situation, where I get to move back into the D300 for any unknown period of months until more D500s become available. Actually, you probably know better. "Send it back and we'll look at it" - I have a better idea - RMA. There's *another* reason why these people are losing out to Canon...

Bottom Line: It's definitely a "buy" in my book, but I'd wait until they get the bugs out of them first. Mine went back for refund, not replacement - I could really use this thing, but I'll wait until they have more production experience before trying again. If you have the D7200, don't be looking for any kind of a "big bang", it's more professional in its handling and speed, but not in image quality or focus.

Ironheart

Did you try more than 1 SD card? Occasionally you do get a bad one... I've run almost a dozen brands through with nary a problem. Autofocus? Seems twice as fast on every lens I own as my D7200 (okay, I exaggerate but the thing focuses faster than I can think, and does so in near darkness). What lenses are you using? More details/data points please!

Where did you buy it? My local store would loan me anything I want up to and including a D5 if mine had to go into service.

manhattanboy

Hank said:

Quiet! There is almost no difference between Quiet Mode and Regular, both are very quiet especially compared to the clatter of the D300. No more evil stares at the wedding vow alter. Very nice.

I have to disagree with you here. There is a marked sound difference between the QC and CH modes. The only way the CH mode is improved over the 7X00 series is that it is faster so there is less time need to fire off a few shots; in other words less than half a second of really loud noise to get 4 shots versus more than half a second of really loud noise. The camera that has the most quiet CH for Nikon is the 810, which even having a much larger shutter than the D500 is still quieter.

Hank said:

Finder. I read the claims, but I don't see much difference. It's too small, and there is no help for manual focus, but then it isn't a D5 and didn't cost $6,500.

Here I agree with you. Everyone made a big deal out of the viewfinder, and it is good for a DX camera, but I would really say you need f4 lenses or faster for this viewfinder. Compared to the 810, the 5.6 or slower lenses look very dark in the viewfinder.

Michael

Although it will not impact brightness/darkness of the viewfinder image, Nikon does sell a magnifying eyepiece (FYI, the viewfinder shutter is also an eyepiece lock, close the shutter before unscrewing and installing an alternate eyepiece). They claim it magnifies the image about 20%. I tried it and like it, but it does mean the upper extreme corners are blocked out of the field of view if you do not adjust your eye position for the purpose of looking in the corners; if you like your camera body and head positions to be perfected locked at all times, you'll have to give up seeing the corners (rarely a practical issue, I suspect). It is model number DK-17M and is very reasonably priced.

JohnMcDi

Hello, guys. Here some photos from the french round of MotoGP, taken on the D500:

spraynpray

Hi @JohnMcDi, welcome to NR and congrats - they are superb shots. Nice to see the D500 being used for what it is good at. What lens?

donaldejose

Wedding photo combo?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZRNksn1VF0

manhattanboy

Michael said:

Although it will not impact brightness/darkness of the viewfinder image, Nikon does sell a magnifying eyepiece (FYI, the viewfinder shutter is also an eyepiece lock, close the shutter before unscrewing and installing an alternate eyepiece). They claim it magnifies the image about 20%. I tried it and like it, but it does mean the upper extreme corners are blocked out of the field of view if you do not adjust your eye position for the purpose of looking in the corners; if you like your camera body and head positions to be perfected locked at all times, you'll have to give up seeing the corners (rarely a practical issue, I suspect). It is model number DK-17M and is very reasonably priced.

I should clarify. The size although smaller than the 810 is not that big of a deal. The brightness, however, is striking. I was shooting at dusk one day with the 200-500 and swapped bodies over to the 810 and it was as if someone "turned the light on" as everything was suddenly much brighter. This is probably true for all DX cameras, but just want to let FX shooters know to not expect miracles from the D500 viewfinder.

@JohnMcDi
Thank you for posting. What are the ISOs for the 2 static people shots? Its interesting as the daylight one looks like there is high ISO-smearing whereas the indoor seated one looks much sharper at 100%.

rmp

I am confused by the Nikon manual and face detection. In live-view I can select face-detection focus, if I can remember it and if I have time. In most (60%) of my shots, I use single point focus because my subjects often have stuff between me and my prime subject. But in many of my shots (25-30%) there are people. What settings should I use to maximize the probability that face-detection will save my people shots?

PB_PM

I've never found liveview face detection very useful, since it tends to focus on peoples noses. It's okay for group shots when using lots of depth of field though.

Michael

I haven't tested it, but I think face-priority focus is only clearly available in liveview (not viewfinder) photography, and sort of in viewfinder photography when you are in AF-S mode and using group-area AF (from p. 104 of the U.S. manual under the group-area AF note: "If faces are detected in AF-S focus mode, the camera will give priority to portrait subjects"); if you are in AF-C, it is probably not available, and if you are in anything other than group-area, it is probably not available. I'm not sure how this will interact with metering, but matrix metering can be set to prioritize faces (custom setting b5). See also setting a4 (3D-tracking face-detection) if you like 3D mode.

rmp

Thanks, Michel. I will play with the custom settings. I will try to set a function button to switch to AF-S, b5. That may be close enough, but what I want is a way for face-detection to be "always on."

starralazn

the D800 had face detection in AF-C(in Auto area of course)... i'm sure the D500 has it as well.

it is of course not as obvious as in live view mode.

DaveyJ

Our D500 is paid for and a protection plan. Still haven't got it. B&H says they don't know when the next shipment is coming in....

donaldejose

Thom Hogan recommends:

"If you’re having issues with matrix metering consistency, check your setting for CSM #B5. Likewise, if you’re seeing focusing performance inconsistencies, check CSM #A4. Having these things on when you’re not shooting humans face on can cause you difficulties."

The point seems to be that when these custom settings are telling the camera to look for faces and when there are no human faces in the image the matrix metering or focusing may be off. This is fixed by not telling the camera to look for faces.

Thom is playing with his D500 and has other recommendations at in his D5/D500 miniblog.