Nikon no pop-up flash discussion/solutions

heartyfisher

As suggested in the D500 discussion thread this topic may need its own thread.. so lets see how it goes..

Ok the issue seems fairly minor for some and quite important for others.
The main points of issue seem to be.

D500 is a small and light dx version of the D4/s/D5/D800/810. The non inclusion of the Popup flash like the D800/810 is contrary to that idea as it means that for the same functionality you will need,
* More items
* more weight
* more costs
* inconvenience
* storage in the bag
* things to remember
* things to check for batteries and service.
The main functionlity missing seem to me to be.
1) Flash
2) commander mode
3) Af-assist light.

The possible solutions suggested seem to include
a) another flash with commander mode
b) radio triggers
c) flash-cable extension.
d) AF assist lights/accessory .
e) keep an old camera with a Popup flash.
f) get the New SB5000 with radio trigger.
g) small flash just for the flash functionality.

All this also applied to the Nikon Df, which I did not get mainly bec it did not have a the PopUp flash. Although, the D500 has so many nice features that I will probably get it, and solving this "non-Pop" issue for me is a requirement. I have been looking for solutions since the Df so its been a while with no perfect solution, at least to my intellectual satisfaction as I don't actually have a Df or D500 ( yet ;-) ).

Of course you can(and i have) carry a suit case full of lighting which is probably a good solution for D5/D4/s shooters and makes no difference for them if the D500 is just their 3rd or 4 fourth backup camera but ...

retread

For me it would be, g) small flash just for the flash functionality. I am also keeping the old camera with the popup flash.

I only use it when it is just the only way to get the shot. I have a big flash for the rare occasion I want outdoor fill flash.

donaldejose

Pause a minute,
Stop thinking from the point of view that a feature is "missing."
Start thinking instead about how the D500 will be used.

1. birding because of its reach and fps: no on-camera flash is used or needed
2. indoor sports (like high school) under flickering lights because of its ability to shoot through the flickering and its high fps: no on-camera flash is used or needed
3. professional three lighting (main, fill background) standard portraiture because you don't have an FX body for this work because if you did it would be better to use FX for increased image quality: no on-camera flash is used or needed
4. studio work because you don't have an FX body because if you did it would be better to use FX for increased image quality: no on-camera flash is used or needed

So when would you use a pop-up flash?
1. Wedding receptions: But pop-up isn't powerful enough and runs your battery down too much. Any pros who do this use separate on-camera flashes like the SB400 or SB910. Also, people shooting weddings these days should be using FX.
2. Quick grab shot portraits outside when you want some fill light. Pop-up works fine but you shouldn't be taking many of these.
3. To control off camera old Nikon non-radio flashes. The D500 is a camera of the future not the past and most people will be transitioning to the new Nikon radio controlled flashes for which you get an on-camera radio transmitter to control them from the camera if you don't mount a SB5000 in the camera. Lots of the older Nikon SB600 through SB910 flashes will now be for sale in ebay.

Decision maker:
If pop-up is so important to your work you likely will be better served by a D7200 or D750 and other bodies in that line than by a D500 so just purchase the DX D7200 or the FX D750 and be happy. The only time you really need a D500 is if you absolutely need those 10 fps and cannot survive with "only" 6 fps, if you need to shoot indoor sports under flickering light or if you need both reach and high ISO. If that is an issue for you I am sure the next generation of Nikon's enthusiast camera bodies will get the new Expeed 5 processor which should allow them to increase their fps.

NSXTypeR

I think if Nikon updated the D7300 with most of the D500's features, like the AF system, sensor, maybe half the buffer, flash, and dual SD cards with the same build as the current D7200 most DX users would get that over the D500 as it would probably be just over half the price of the D500. I have no need for 10 fps, I limit my D7000 mostly to 3 FPS in general. I do get a lot of use out of the flash, and it's helpful for macro, especially with the 105mm macro I have on it.

donaldejose

Trickle down technology will occur over time as is Nikon's practice.

retread

Some waterfowl are not frightened by flash. It can put a nice catch light in their eye. That is what I was told at a workshop I attended. I haven't tried it yet.

heartyfisher

Some waterfowl are not frightened by flash. It can put a nice catch light in their eye. That is what I was told at a workshop I attended. I haven't tried it yet.

I have been using flash for that .. The Rogue Safari extender seems like a nice simple tool that may be convineant .. with a popup.( :-) :-( ).

heartyfisher

Thought I would mention some flash suggestions in this thread instead of having it buried in the big D500 thread ...
1) Metz 26 - small but faily powerful flash suggested by @Sports good for just the flash functionality. Cute looking too :-)
2) METZ – MECABLITZ 24AF-1 - Small flash similar to SB400. Bounce tilt up, Slave mode & AF assist light
3) Debao SU-800 - cheaper alternative to the Nikon SU-800. Provides Commander and AF assist functionality.

Oh one more item I looked at sometime ago.
4) Nikon SC-29 TTL Off-Camera Shoe Cord with AF Assist - Provides off camera functionality and AF assist. needs an attached flash for af assist to be powered. Hmm.. I wonder if it will work with a Metz26 attached :-)

spraynpray

No thought has been given to macro here where the D500's viewfinder and fps can be handy. The pop-up is used by some of the best in the business for macro - and some times exclusively. I use it with two SB's for fill/command.

heartyfisher

No thought has been given to macro here where the D500's viewfinder and fps can be handy. The pop-up is used by some of the best in the business for macro - and some times exclusively. I use it with two SB's for fill/command.

Yeah is a slight setback having no Command popup for macro flash, especially with the D500 having a tilty screen, which will help with my macro "contortions" :-)

I have a DIY gadget that attaches to the tripod mount of my Macro lense which I mount my SB800 flash on so that I can have a Key light flash directed from various angles from the sides. This triggered by the Popup Comander or I use the popup as fill.


d7000 cropped hard, sigma 150 f2.8 sb800 popup commander

Of course I use the popup for normal macro portraits as well..

d7000 cropped hard, sigma 150 f2.8 sb800 popup commander


d610 cropped hard, nikkor 70-200 f4 sb800 + popup commander

So I use it often enough that I would need a solution if I get a D500 (or a Df2 ;-) )

donaldejose

I think the D500 will still be able to work with all the existing Nikon SB units so you can just mount one of them on the hot shoe and use it to control off camera existing SBs. It would be nice if Nikon offered a SB400 sized unit with radio transmitter that could be mounted on the hot shoe and replace the pop-up flash with the camera as the commander. Maybe they will.

spraynpray

For macro (not close-up which your shots are hearty), an SB700 is too high for mounting in the hot-shoe. The pop-up is nice and close to the 60mm lens's axis and my two SB's are close in to the sides of the lens. Close = soft light.

heartyfisher

@spraynpray I like ! Whats that? I mean the contraption holding the flashes.

Ok I macro too :-) below is a pink landscape :-)

Nikon D7000, 150 sigma F2.8, Sb800 off camera Commander-Popup :-) rose petal-scape

Vipmediastar_JZ

You can get the yongnuo yn-622 N with a focus assist beam.

Having the D8xx, Df and D750 I never had to use the pop flash or wanted to and focusing was very good in low light. Can it save a photo? yes but I always try to carry a speedlight even if it is a 99.00-115.00 one like the yongnuo.


As for the macro shots I can see where the pop up can come in handy to use it as a command or even part of the light. You can use a ring light but I haven't used to say how good it is for macro. I only did a product shot with it.

I did try use a small beauty dish once for a macro shot and I need time to find it and upload it.

One neat thing is you can set the pop flash to -- and it wont be part of the final flash output. Just the commander part. That's from memory and correct me if I`m wrong.

donaldejose

You are correct. The pop-up can just be used for commander control from the camert and not as a part of the final exposure. Just the pre-flashes work.

spraynpray

@heartyfisher: Those are articulating brackets which I have put arca heads on so the attach to my L bracket and take a couple of SB700's. It makes a highly portable set-up that gets consistent results in any light. The pop-up has a £2 diffuser on. Whole thing cost me £35 or so.

Msmoto

Cannot remember the last time I used the pop up flash on the D800, but with the ISO of the D500, along with a good dynamic range, maybe the pop up is less needed. A ring flash, or some small flash the size of a pop up stuck to the top of the lens hood may be useful.

One problem I have always noted with a pop up is the inability to use a lens hood, as the shadow always seemed to be a problem.

As for macro, this is an entirely unique challenge for me as I like a lot of light on the subject and use various methods to obtain this, none of which have used a pop up flash.

Thus, if i do purchase the D500 I will most likely not notice the "lack" of a pop up. In fact the irritationI experience of accidentally releasing the pop up is more than enough to eliminate this, IMO of course.

Sports

Thought I would mention some flash suggestions

There's also the Nissin i40. Lots of features in a small device ... but no commander.

heartyfisher

@heartyfisher: Those are articulating brackets which I have put arca heads on so the attach to my L bracket and take a couple of SB700's. It makes a highly portable set-up that gets consistent results in any light. The pop-up has a £2 diffuser on. Whole thing cost me £35 or so.

:-) cool contraption.. :-)
Reminds me of this ;-)

heartyfisher

I have had an idea for a DIY flash contraption for a while now.. (hands free, mostly "hidden") Maybe I will make it now that I will really need it for a D500 :-) Gives me an excuse to get some stuff.. :-) )

PB_PM

Pop up flash. Hmm, I think the last time I popped it up it was by mistake. I'm not even sure it works on my D750, since I've never used it.

Ironheart

The last time my flash popped up, I was outside so I didn't see it. I couldn't figure out why my frame rate had dropped so far and my speed was cut to 250. I have since gaffer taped it down.

heartyfisher

LOL ! funny guys )

heartyfisher

Found the almost perfect solution!!

http://www.canon.co.za/for_home/product_finder/cameras/speedlite_flash/speedlite_90ex/#specification

Crap it doesnt have AFassists.. the search goes on ...

Sports

Found the almost perfect solution!!

Compared to your Canon thingy, the Nissin i40 should be even more perfect, as it'll actually work on a Nikon body :-)
(W. AF assist, I believe.)

heartyfisher

Found the almost perfect solution!!

Compared to your Canon thingy, the Nissin i40 should be even more perfect, as it'll actually work on a Nikon body :-)
(W. AF assist, I believe.)

Arrgh! Canon! dont you feel a bit soiled just considering putting it on the Nikon? LOL! I was just having a bit of fun (and showing my frustration at not finding a simple solution)

Had a closer look at the Nissin i40. Looks so nice. even has video LED light .. Probably uses the video light for AF assist .. but it does not seem to have the red AF assist beams.

Hopefully, the D500 arrival will instigate some one to make a small flash with the 3 missing functionality. Its all there already .. someone just needs to put it together in a small package... sigh ...