Compact Camera's... High end Coolpix... Nikon 1.... Nikon DL....

Snowleopard

Until recent technological advancements, any time I go shopping for a "Compact" camera or something that is not a 5-15 pound DLSR or SLR..... I would never think of spending $999+ for a compact; tote around camera.

Way back when in history I did spend $999 on my Coolpix 5000.... but it had a real Nikon hot shoe, it had a metal frame so if it dropped, nothing happened to it... It still is a great 5mp camera... the max CF card it can take is 4gb I think and that was when 256mb card where the norm.

Fast forward 10-15 years and man, that $999 price point is still strong.. sales wise the Coolpix "A" was a flop because we want a full frame mirrorless....., hence it was discountinued and the price slowly and painfully dropped....

I was looking at a Nikon 1 AW1.... If I want a compact, I want to take it the pool, in the ocean, etc... still only average sales.... ( not a oohhhh wow camera) in terms of picture quality....

Now we have the next $999 compact camera..... the DL.... hopefully the picture quality will be better.... No mention of a water proof version and quite honestly .... for camera's in this market, I don't want to spend more than $500 for it.

If it's going to cost more than $500... then let me just take the DSLR where I have invested in full frame glass and everything else....

heartyfisher

Just looked through the official announcements on the main blog. Yup, all 3 looks nice ..... :-) I want !

I had a P5000 too... nice little thing.

HockeyMan

I was just reading over the specs for the DL camera line and noticed that they use an Expeed 6A processor while the new D5/D500 use an Expeed 5 processor. The only data I can find on the XA processors vs. the X are that the Nikon 1 J or V series exclusively use XA branded processors. Nikon Expeed processors are generally numbered EI-137 to EI-175 and possibly higher, but i can't find anything higher than EI-175. I checked this forum and did an extensive Google search.

Does anyone know the difference between the X and XA processors? From reading what I can, the XA processors aren't necessarily cut down or lower powered. A lot of times, the XA processors out-perform there X counterparts because of more advanced video processing capabilities. But I can't be sure of the information on the web. To confuse me even more, Nikon marketing has branded completely different ei-1xx processors as Expeed 3, the same goes for Expeed 4. Can someone elucidate me?

heartyfisher

Dont know much about the new Expeed 6A processors except that they are quad core vs Expeed 5 are Duo core. Like you said the Expeed (x)A processors seem to be in the smaller cameras.. so it may be a lower power consumption thing. The more advanced video thing .. I dunno.. maybe it has the video processing module enabled.

HockeyMan

OK. Perhaps Nikon has purposefully obfuscated the details in order to not give away information it doesn't want to. A quad core with a smaller die and lower clock could easily get smoked by a dual core with a larger, higher clocked, more sophisticated chip in terms of pixels processed per second. Maybe Snap Bridge runs better with a quad core with one of the four processors dedicated specifically to running data between the camera buffer and blue tooth connection.

Ironheart

The A models use ARM processor cores, just like the iPhone/iPad. The non A variants use FR-V processor cores, a specialized Fujitsu processor, also used in their supercomputers.
Not sure how I know this stuff anymore, it just pops into my head after 30 years in the high-tech industry. Also I was on the team that did the first linux port to the ARM processor back in the 90s, so I have that instruction set etched into my own firmware

HockeyMan

Cool, thanks for the info. I guess Nikon can "brag" and say we use supercomputer cores for our Expeed processors. Sounds good to me.

manhattanboy

I for one am upset at Nikon with today's announcement.
Does this mean that the Nikon 1 is dead?
If that's the case, I am really thinking about switching to either MFTs or Sony FE.
I'm sick of this BS

spraynpray

manhattanboy said:

I for one am upset at Nikon with today's announcement.
Does this mean that the Nikon 1 is dead?
If that's the case, I am really thinking about switching to either MFTs or Sony FE.
I'm sick of this BS

I don't think so, the J5 is too new and has interchangeable lenses for those alarm bells to ring, I think the DL's are just 'new'.

Ironheart

See my response in the other thread you started. In a word no, different markets, horses for courses.

heartyfisher

Ironheart said:

The A models use ARM processor cores, just like the iPhone/iPad. The non A variants use FR-V processor cores, a specialized Fujitsu processor, also used in their supercomputers.
Not sure how I know this stuff anymore, it just pops into my head after 30 years in the high-tech industry. Also I was on the team that did the first linux port to the ARM processor back in the 90s, so I have that instruction set etched into my own firmware

When I first saw the ARM instruction set (close to 30 years ago too LOL!) after playing with the huge
DEC and PRIME ones I was totally brown away!! what? instead of hundreds and you only have 9 ?! in 3 flavours ??
its awesome to see how far its come!

Re: Nikon 1 .. I think Nikon1 range will shrink however there are 3 lines that will still be pretty strong and unique for it. Ie the J5, AW1, and V3 successors.

Snowleopard

I guess this completely went off topic..... but good information. My main concerns where this $999 price point that Nikon keeps introducing low end camera's at instead of like $499...

No waterproof DL camera....., No real Nikon hot shoe for flashes... etc... I could care less about the processor.... processors come and go as quick or quicker than cameras do.

NSXTypeR

Nikon's about 2-3 years late to the game, I already have a camera with a 1 inch sensor. I got a 1st gen Sony RX100 used for $200 from my cousin.

I would have considered the Nikon DL lines, but I don't think it'll be anywhere close to $200 used anytime soon.

heartyfisher

Saw a bunch of Sony RX cameras in the shop.. quite nice :-) the FX ones looks nice and small too. Its obvious to me that the Nikon DL set is for competing with the 1" Sonys ..

Hopefully, Nikon has stopped considering their own range as a linear set of products like they did in the past. I have mentioned before that nikon needs to compartmentalise each type of product and develop a range within that product type. The D500 and DL are examples of them breaking from their linear product thinking and producing product that meet the market demand and Niche no matter if it can "cannibalise" other products in their range. If they have broken out of that then the Nikon1's future is as good as it could be and will depend of how well it competes in the market place without being hamstrung/limited by Nikon's own internal product range.

Just imagine what the Nikon1 range could be if they were their own company competing in the market place!! eg : like pentax or olympus.
1) They already have a unique interchangeable lense underwater system !! add to that NOW !!! so silly to let a unique advantage stagnate while competition catches up, sigh ... hit while the hammer is hot !
2) maybe add sensor based VR? or just the Digital VR thats already available.
3) Really quite nice J5 and only needs a few small tweeks to be best in class
4) The V series. Imagine adding a VPlus range with weather sealing ! with weather sealed FT1 for attaching Nikkor lenses with Full AF. Pro 20.8MP sensor ;-). Leverage the heck out of the Nikkor lenses. Ie a CX D5/D500 call it the V5 ;-)
5) add popup flash with CLS or the new wireless flash.
6) Let the engineers go crazy ! you have nothing to lose here. You either create a new niche or die.
7) multiple sensor types ! Maybe even interchangeable sensor. BW, High DR, High MP(100MP? ;-) ), low MP high ISO (1million ISO ?)
8) Video speciality range. especially for Vloging. plus a bunch of accessories. high quality mics, simple mixers apps, storage. etc.

etc etc ..

sigh ..

Any one else have other ideas :-) I am sure there are some more :-)

Ironheart

Snowleopard said:

I guess this completely went off topic..... but good information. My main concerns where this $999 price point that Nikon keeps introducing low end camera's at instead of like $499...

No waterproof DL camera....., No real Nikon hot shoe for flashes... etc... I could care less about the processor.... processors come and go as quick or quicker than cameras do.

These DLs all have "real" hot shoes. There are pics with a SB5000 natch.

mustangdaren

I haven't used the Nikon compacts but I can speak highly of the Sony RX100. It amazes me of it's image quality, especially in low light for a point and shoot. I think some shots look better handheld in low light than my D610 24-70f/2.8 does. Very happy with that purchase. I will be keeping my eye on the new Nikon to see how it stacks up and if it would be worth the upgrade.

PB_PM

One reason to pick a Nikon camera over a Sony camera, no matter what the cost or model, the Nikon model will ship with UI that is actually usable. I played with a few Sony RX100 models (along with a few of the A7 series) in a camera store and wanted to throw them out a window because simple things like charging focus points, ISO settings etc, were overly complicated and set far deeper in the menu than needed.

NSXTypeR

PB_PM said:

One reason to pick a Nikon camera over a Sony camera, no matter what the cost or model, the Nikon model will ship with UI that is actually usable. I played with a few Sony RX100 models (along with a few of the A7 series) in a camera store and wanted to throw them out a window because simple things like charging focus points, ISO settings etc, were overly complicated and set far deeper in the menu than needed.

I would agree with that, but at that time that was my best option. I'll take having a camera over not getting the shot. Again, Nikon was late to the game and it shows. With so many versions of the RX100, it may not be easy for the Nikon DL to sell well. Honestly, if I really had not brand preference, I would gladly buy an older RX100 over a Nikon. Some people want a fast camera and will end up never using the manual modes.

TWG

Before, I thought... *meh*. 1-inch sensor. I don't care. Probably crap beyond ISO 400.

Then, I took another look. Allegedly 5-stop VR, far reaching DOF of the 18-50 at f1.8, fast AF, RAW, corner sharpness, 4k, interesting focal range and form factor.

Totally gonna wait for the reviews, will also be pixel peeping sample pics to death, and wait at least six months for any bugs to appear online, but... yeah, I am interested. At the least, it is great for a fire sale a few years down the line....

DaveyJ

The Nikon DL 18-50 looks pretty good from here!

spraynpray

Might be a good simple cam for my wife. Can you grab frames from the 4k vid?

TWG

I have no idea. When would you actually want to grab frames during video? If I do video, i do video. If do stills, i do stills.

There is a kind of promo preview on the passionate photographer:

http://www.thepassionatephotographer.com/first-look-the-new-nikon-compact-dl-24-85-f1-8-2-8-and-dl18-50-f1-8-2-8-part-2-go-wide/

moreorless

TWG said:

Before, I thought... *meh*. 1-inch sensor. I don't care. Probably crap beyond ISO 400.

Then, I took another look. Allegedly 5-stop VR, far reaching DOF of the 18-50 at f1.8, fast AF, RAW, corner sharpness, 4k, interesting focal range and form factor.

Totally gonna wait for the reviews, will also be pixel peeping sample pics to death, and wait at least six months for any bugs to appear online, but... yeah, I am interested. At the least, it is great for a fire sale a few years down the line....

That's an evil tempting camera in terms of trying to get me to leave my D800 at home for holidays. My serious landscape work for sale is mostly local stuff but I do tend to take semi busmans holidays with a lot of my DSLR gear.

Mirrorless never really attracted me as for one thing I like the bulk/handling of the D800 at home and like the OVF anywhere plus really even with a mirrorless system and lenses in the UWA and normal range I would still be looking at something fairly bulky that needed a bag and lens changing.

18-50mm at F/1.8 to F/2.8 plus VR though is very tempting, good enough for most landscape and street shooting plus good for architecture interiors and probably meaning I can stick to ISO 100 most of the time. I'm quessing quality at base ISO would give a print up to around 16x12 inches not too far off the D800 although I'd guess the ability to post process would be more limited.

DaveyJ

I have checked on this camera DL 18-50 as much as possible....stills looks good to me. We'll get a D500, then maybe this 18-50 DL next? Pretty satisfied with our current fleet by the way....

TWG

moreorless said:

TWG said:

18-50mm at F/1.8 to F/2.8 plus VR though is very tempting, good enough for most landscape and street shooting plus good for architecture interiors and probably meaning I can stick to ISO 100 most of the time. I'm quessing quality at base ISO would give a print up to around 16x12 inches not too far off the D800 although I'd guess the ability to post process would be more limited.

Very similar to my line of thinking.

Still, be careful with your enthusiasm about the VR. The 5 stops I got from a promo. In real world usage, it is probably 2-3 stops. You also need it because you have one less contact point for stabilization (eye socket - viewfinder).

One big upside is that the form factor reduces your entire bulk. One small camera, one small lens, but also a far smaller tripod.

moreorless

Again I would say going to something like the FE system or honestly even smaller sensor options would not change things THAT much. The FE system indeed probably would have very little at all and give me a worse handling body and all of these would need a bag and lens changing.

Its really a choice on how much I value holiday shooting and how well the 1 inch sensor prints plus I spose how much I want to edit and/or use filters.