Flings with other camera manufacturers

24

Comments

  • PistnbrokePistnbroke Posts: 2,370Member
    VTC2002....you don't need two bodies and 3 lenses you need the serial numbers of suitable lenses/bodies from ebay then you can get better service on the bodys/lenses you have if you don't have the full 5.

    oops shure everyone knew that ....
  • NSXTypeRNSXTypeR Posts: 2,251Member
    I've never used Sony cameras, but apparently the build quality isn't that great. The A7R is supposed to be weather sealed, but then you get stuff like this. I don't know the photographer, but she's pretty annoyed.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/125233350@N03/28031739394/in/dateposted/

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/125233350@N03/28580493911/in/dateposted/

    Granted I think she lives in Florida where it's super humid, but the A7R was advertised as weather sealed.
    Nikon D7000/ Nikon D40/ Nikon FM2/ 18-135 AF-S/ 35mm 1.8 AF-S/ 105mm Macro AF-S/ 50mm 1.2 AI-S
  • manhattanboymanhattanboy Posts: 1,003Member
    My month long fling with the A7rii is about over. These are my impressions compared to Nikon's D810, which is probably the closest competitor from the Nikon lineup. Generally, the Sony feels like a camera designed by engineers instead of photographers. The menus and controls of the Sony suck; although you can customize a lot, things that you take for granted on the Nikon, like being able to assign switching from FX to DX crop mode and back to a button/dial combo, are not possible on the Sony. You must stop everything and menu dive--there is no other way.

    The autofocus is not very good if you need to shoot quickly. If you have plenty of time to focus, and then re-focus because the first time is frequently not right, then you can get sharp shots. But "pick up the camera and immediately take a shot" style photography will not work as the focus is neither quick enough nor accurate enough to nail it immediately. On the flip side, the viewfinder does allow you to confirm when you are in focus, but it is still relatively hard to know in a small viewfinder if you have "razor sharp" or "fine at small print sizes" type of focus. Many times I see that I am in focus only to later realize on the 42mp image that it was not razor sharp. This may be what Thom complained about in his review where he said the Sony has more tolerance for what it considers "in focus".

    The main reason I flung with the Sony was silent shooting and I have mixed feelings on this. While I love this feature, it is still very limited and it makes me wish companies like RED with global shutter technology would release a Nikon or Canon mount DSLR-style camera instead of always focusing on video. Silent shooting is amazing and for sure I will not buy another camera unless it has a silent shooting ability. However, rolling shutter is terrible; you have to be statuesque to take any photos as just the slightest movement or panning results in an unusable image. Its stated that the DR is also decreased with silent shooting, but honestly with a 42mp full frame sensor, the images even with "limited DR" are great and I never felt like having more DR was a problem during post. Besides the rolling shutter issue, the other main problem is that continuous shooting is not available on the A7rii with silent shooting enabled. This is another probably artificial Sony limitation as the newer A6300 apparently is capable of continuous shooting in silent mode. This is good and bad; its actually good because it forces you to stop your Nikon-developed habits of panning with the action (remember any panning results in unusable images), but its still annoying that you are exercising your index finger when you really should not have to.

    Battery life was not as much of an issue as I would have imagined. The batteries are small and you need probably 3 of them to get through the day continuously shooting, but overall I was expecting this so there were no surprises. Battery life still pales in comparison to the 810 where even one Nikon battery could outlast three of the Sony's.

    How to sum it up? I was watching a camera review of the D5 the other day and one of the commentators said the D5 is capable of 14fps when the mirror is up. And the other commentator said that's not very useful as you really need AF to be working while you are shooting. In a nutshell, what makes a great camera is the sum of all of its abilities interacting together often simultaneously. While there are flashy specs like 14fps on the D5, or in this case 42mp and silent shooting on the a7rii, these alone do not make a camera great unless they are coupled simultaneously with other great aspects like razor sharp fast AF, continuous high speed shooting, on-the-fly adjustable controls, etc. The a7rii has some great features and if all you do is studio work, then I think it certainly matches and probably exceeds the 810's abilities. But for my style of action shooting the a7rii is still not quite finished yet. Part of what I would like to see in the future is technical: give us a global shutter so we can pan while taking action photos using the eShutter. The other part is implementation oriented: give the user an AF joystick for more direct control and re-orient the buttons, battery, and customization options to be more photographer oriented.
  • kanuckkanuck Posts: 1,300Member
    edited August 2016

    the d800 was made in japan. the d810 was not

    Yes you are right as was the D800E. I wonder why the D810 was not..

    I have had a problem with the build quality of the D810. I have replaced all the gaskets, the battery door, and grips on the camera in the last 25 months. I also had trouble with the lens mount not reading aperature first in Live view and then it became in all shooting conditions. I have loved the results of the camera despite these problems though, and am currently on my second sensor with it.

    Have you enjoyed the D5 vtc2002?

    Post edited by kanuck on
  • paulrpaulr Posts: 1,176Member
    WoW Kanuck Looks like you got a end of shift camera. Are you doing a lot of mileage with the D810,Thats a lot of faults for one camera.
    Camera, Lens and Tripod and a few other Bits
  • vtc2002vtc2002 Posts: 364Member
    @kanuck The focus acquisition on the D5 is incredible. I had the opportunity to go the US Olympic trials last month to shoot. I am sure that I had the highest keeper rate that I have ever had on a shoot. The ones that I missed were my fault not the D5. I prefer a larger camera and the D5 fits and just feels right in my hand. It will be interesting to see the images that come from the Olympics.
    I agree with @paulr comment, I have over 150,000 clicks on my D810's and never had an issue. They get a lot of abuse from travel and handling. The only thing that happened was that I snapped the card door off of one of them when I bumped it against my camera bag. I was able to snap if back in place and not had any problems since then.
  • PistnbrokePistnbroke Posts: 2,370Member
    Manhattenboy...brilliant review shows us what to look for in/if we get a Nikon Mirrorless
  • kanuckkanuck Posts: 1,300Member
    edited August 2016
    Yes paulr with work and then a long trip I had to get a sensor swap right away. It gave out around 173k a touch early. All good as new with cosmetic fixes also now :)

    vtc2002, I heard that the focus is like nothing before it. Amazing and excellent iso to 25,000 also. Interesting about your D810. Maybe I got a touch unlucky with mine. Nothing serious mind you, but my old D700 was a total tank with only the sensor being changed twice from usage in 2008-2012...
    Post edited by kanuck on
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,675Member
    kanuck said:

    Yes paulr with work and then a long trip I had to get a sensor swap right away. It gave out around 173k a touch early. All good as new with cosmetic fixes also now :)

    vtc2002, I heard that the focus is like nothing before it. Amazing and excellent iso to 25,000 also. Interesting about your D810. Maybe I got a touch unlucky with mine. Nothing serious mind you, but my old D700 was a total tank with only the sensor being changed twice from usage in 2008-2012...

    Your sensor being changed? I have never heard of that. Are you sure you are not talking about the shutter Kanuck?
  • MegapixelSchnitzelMegapixelSchnitzel Posts: 185Member
    X.... 1.... D... But it's not going to be a fling. She's going to be a second wife. (I'm keeping the Nikon).
  • kanuckkanuck Posts: 1,300Member
    edited August 2016

    kanuck said:

    Yes paulr with work and then a long trip I had to get a sensor swap right away. It gave out around 173k a touch early. All good as new with cosmetic fixes also now :)

    vtc2002, I heard that the focus is like nothing before it. Amazing and excellent iso to 25,000 also. Interesting about your D810. Maybe I got a touch unlucky with mine. Nothing serious mind you, but my old D700 was a total tank with only the sensor being changed twice from usage in 2008-2012...

    Your sensor being changed? I have never heard of that. Are you sure you are not talking about the shutter Kanuck?
    Obviously that's what I meant. Never heard of a new sensor in _______ years or like never :) Having a long week...

    MegapixelSchnitzel thats the spirit!
    Post edited by kanuck on
  • MegapixelSchnitzelMegapixelSchnitzel Posts: 185Member
    Now I'm not certain about the affair, either. Instead of X1D she may be a FL... but now we're really talking big bucks for lenses.
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,417Member
    I have always stayed with Nikon because I want to have consistent picture controls and user interface as much as possible. However, I note Thom Hogan just posed his analysis of interchangeable camera share percentages for the first quarter of of 2016 and Canon has a 49% share while Nikon only has a 29% share. Why? Why are people selecting Canon over Nikon? One reason I hear is that Canon has better skin tones so that attracts the wedding and portrait market. I also hear that Canon has a better user interface and has some good L glass. But we all know Canon's dynamic range is less. I am tempted to get a Canon and try it but I sure don't want to be investing in more glass.
  • I had no idea Canon led by 20 percentage points in market share. I'd been told the controls were easier and more intuitive, but that certainly would not drive me to abandon a serious investment in Nikon over the past 45 years. And I hope this market trend doesn't spell serious consequences for Nikon in the near future!
  • BVSBVS Posts: 440Member

    I have always stayed with Nikon because I want to have consistent picture controls and user interface as much as possible. However, I note Thom Hogan just posed his analysis of interchangeable camera share percentages for the first quarter of of 2016 and Canon has a 49% share while Nikon only has a 29% share. Why?

    From Canon's quarterly report:

    "Within the Imaging System Business Unit, unit sales of interchangeable-lens digital cameras remained at around the same level as the previous year owing to healthy demand for the professional-model EOS-1D X Mark II and advanced-amateur-model EOS 80D digital SLR cameras, which were launched this year, and an increase in sales volume in Japan and other Asian markets of the EOS M3 and M10 compact-system cameras, which were released the previous year."

    Also, isn't that just the share of quarterly sales? If Nikon releases something new and popular in a quarter where Canon doesn't release anything won't Nikon's share jump for the quarter?

    D7100, 85 1.8G, 50 1.8G, 35 1.8G DX, Tokina 12-28 F4, 18-140, 55-200 VR DX
  • manhattanboymanhattanboy Posts: 1,003Member

    I have always stayed with Nikon because I want to have consistent picture controls and user interface as much as possible. However, I note Thom Hogan just posed his analysis of interchangeable camera share percentages for the first quarter of of 2016 and Canon has a 49% share while Nikon only has a 29% share. Why? Why are people selecting Canon over Nikon? One reason I hear is that Canon has better skin tones so that attracts the wedding and portrait market. I also hear that Canon has a better user interface and has some good L glass. But we all know Canon's dynamic range is less. I am tempted to get a Canon and try it but I sure don't want to be investing in more glass.

    The newer Canon sensors (80D, 1dx2 and 5dm4) have improved DR by reconfiguring the wiring to be more like Sony/Nikon. The folks that shoot video however now complain of increased rolling shutter, so there is no free lunch.

    IMHO it is true that the interface for Canon is easier. If I had to pick up and shoot a Canon DSLR, I could figure out about 80% of what I needed to do without a manual, which is an amazing accomplishment. Some Canon things are still very confusing (e.g. wireless setup), but are still more intuitive than setting up the analogous feature on a Sony. Depending on how the Eos M5 turns out, I may have another fling this time with Canon. Fingers crossed that this time Canon finally puts in a silent eShutter, as that feature has been missing from all of their previous mirrorless cameras. The Canon glass is superb so hopefully Canon can finally nail down an outstanding mirrorless camera. The Panny GH5 with 6K video and the new Oly EM1mark2, reportedly with close to no rolling shutter, also sound really enticing.
  • CaMeRaQuEsTCaMeRaQuEsT Posts: 357Member
    Had Canon's M and M2 for a short time. Really inexpensive system to buy in. Both were ridiculously small with the 22mm attached (BTW, great optics for a 35mm equivalent lens, if a little slow to focus), very easy to carry inside a belt case or tucked inside my wife's bag. Shooting with a wrist strap pouched from my old PowerShot, they were my go-to social and snapshot cameras. But they sure are heavy for their size, as the bodies are almost all metal. Really liked Canon's skin colors. Despised the lack of DR and the excessive and unnatural looking high ISO noise. At my age, every day that passes their small 3" screens become harder and harder to see, and Canon's menu doesn't help either. AF was quick enough on the M2, but terribly slow on the M. Did not like using the EF adapter with the old plastic nifty fifty, made the whole contraption too bulky and heavy, detracting from the M system's ethos. Sold them because of the lack of EVF, but I highly miss the 22mm. Hope the upcoming M3 replacement comes with the 80D's sensor and dual pixel AF, plus an incorporated EVF while keeping the body as small as possible. If they manage to do those things, I'll be coming back to them in a jiffy!
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,417Member
    BVS: Yes, I believe it is only first quarter 2016 data. May change. But also may show a trend away from Nikon.
  • kanuckkanuck Posts: 1,300Member
    edited September 2016

    BVS: Yes, I believe it is only first quarter 2016 data. May change. But also may show a trend away from Nikon.

    This trend is simply due to new releases from other manufacturers and the lack of releases from Nikon. It's natural and happened to Canon when the D800 line was released. Data from the first 3 quarters this year will probably reflect this actually. The release of the D5 and D500 might skew figures in the second quarter perhaps though...
    Post edited by kanuck on
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,417Member
    Good point. Another quotes from the web citing total 2015 shipments.

    "Canon is still outselling every other camera manufacturer in the DSLR world at 54.7% of the market (compared to 39.1% for Nikon)"

    Notice Thom Hogan has started adding Canon coverage to his sites. Maybe he sees it as a way to increase his audience if Canon continues to advance DSLR market share?

    I doubt the D5 will affect market share because too few are sold. The D500 may and if Nikon releases a 50+ mp replacement for the D810 that may also. It seems Nikon needs to come up with a feature or form factor which Canon doesn't have in order to increase market share.
  • DSLR's have always been Nikon's cash cows... but I am hoping they will get serious about mirrorless and develop some truly professional level equipment (and beat Canon to death with it) with that design.
  • BabaGanoushBabaGanoush Posts: 252Member
    Unless Nikon releases a mirrorless camera in 2017, my fling with Sony is going to become a full marriage. I'm very pleased with my A6300, and I have a selection of excellent lenses for it---at least as many good lenses for that camera as I have for my D7200. I am looking forward to buying one of the new full frame cameras Sony is expected to release in early 2017. The only thing that will stop me is if Nikon brings out its own line of mirrorless cameras. I am also keeping an eye on the new medium format cameras that will be coming out next year. If their prices come down into a range that makes sense to me, I will be greatly tempted to dispose of all my Nikon gear and put the money into MF gear. I would then have a full kit of mirrorless MFT gear, mirrorless APS-C gear, and MF gear.
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,493Member
    edited September 2016

    BVS: Yes, I believe it is only first quarter 2016 data. May change. But also may show a trend away from Nikon.

    Canon has had a market share lead since the mid-late 1980's when they introduced auto focus first (okay Minotla was first, but apparently nobody cared). Nikon has been hovering between 29-40% ever since. It's not a trend, just the norm.
    Post edited by PB_PM on
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,417Member
    Yes, I knew Canon AF initially was superior to Nikon's AF and took the lead away from Nikon. BUT Thom is reporting a 40-60 split for the first quarter of 2016. I was not away of a 20% gap previously and raised the question of whether Canon is expanding its market share at the expense of Nikon and why that would be when Nikon clearly as better sensors? I suggested skin tones and user interface as two possible things Canon my have over Nikon to account for a 20% greater market share. Maybe the gap is just an artifact of the first quarter and will not be true for the entire year of 2016.
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,675Member
    If I had to guess why there is a persistent difference, I would say it is the user interface. Almost anybody can perceive that difference. Nikon's advantages are more difficult to perceive. And remember we are talking market share, where most of the market is hobbyists that don't discriminate between small IQ differences that they don't really understand.
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