Windows or MAC

Havoc

I need some help because I'm looking to completely change up my workflow and storage for my photography files. I'm no means a professional photographer but I do pretty good on an amateur level but earlier this year I dropped my external hard drive and I can't access roughly 5000 saved photos. This was after I purchase a new ASUS all in one computer which has left me completely frustrated because I'm now using windows 10 (I was using windows 7 on an old laptop) and the system runs like a pig in winter.

So for storage, I'm looking at a 24TB Pegasus2 R6 Thunderbolt 2 RAID Storage by Promise Technology but I'm starting to think, should I try a MAC? I've never used a MAC computer.

What are you using and why? What would you do different looking back? Lap Tops vs. Desk Tops?? Types of monitors for the most accurate color. Please, no cheerleaders for the MAC, I'm just looking for the next best possible solution for my woes, a logical solution. I'm curious what many of you are using and why.

My equipment: D800, AF-S 24 f/1.4, AF-S 60 f/2.8, AF-S 85 f/1.4, F-S 24-120 f/4, AF-S 70-300 f/4.5-5.6 and AF-S 200-500 f/5.6

Thanks in advance,
Steve

Vipmediastar_JZ

Im using a mid 2012 macbook pro with after market SSD and non retina screen.
If I upgrade to the new macbook pro i would gain around 300% improvement with the graphics card that LR needs. Mine does a good job but I can't get a 4k screen because I cant use it.
I think my bottleneck is currently the graphics card and a better 2nd screen if you get a macbook pro. You can get an imac 5k screen and you may be set but if you can wait for the refresh then do it.
My short story with the mac is that is reliable and stable and almost 0 issues since 2012.

I have a windows desktop that I couldn't even have install the latest windows updates but it is a 2009 build with upgraded parts as needed.

Both can do a good job and some PC laptops have 4k and 2 drives with much much more but in the end I choose mac because its so easy and efficient to use and be productive with no roadblocks on a daily use.

AmericanLoonie

Macs are the tops, no doubt. I have never looked back since I switched over, especially from a workflow perspective. Having owned multiple PCs and Macs, there is zero question that Macs last longer, are more reliable, and maintain higher performance long into that lifespan. To add some perspective, I still use a 2008 (then fully loaded) Mac Book Pro as a desktop computer. Putting an SSD and maxing out the RAM to 16gbs (8gbs in the pre-2012 models) helps a lot, as does any quality graphics card as just mentioned – however the graphics card will do a lot more for video processing than it will for photography alone. My workhorse computer is also a souped-up 13" 2012 MBPro and it continues to serve me very well.

The only risk in switching over is the long term outlook for the Mac OS – I see it getting worse rather than better, but that is a personal opinion/preference. That said, I don't see a whole lot of greatness coming from Windows either... I will hold out on upgrading my Mac Book Pro until Apple allows for more than 16gbs of RAM; I was rather disappointed that those sort of "guts" upgrades were not done with the newest model while they advertise a tiny touch screen strip thingy like it is some sort of godsend...

Apple mentioned they would not go beyond max 16gbs for now as it would put too much strain on the OS and dramatically reduce battery life. This is funny and frustrating, as there are countless reports that the battery life is just a tiny fraction of the 10 hours they promised – hopefully this can be fixed in a software update. You could probably find a previous gen 15" with Retina display for muuuuch cheaper, throw in some aftermarket innards, and you would be extremely happy – if not happier – at a very nice price point.

Don't know if you have tried it, but have you ripped that external drive apart and tried plugging the actual drive into a different/new enclosure? If the drive wasn't on when you dropped it, there is a good chance you only damaged the interface and not the drive itself. Worth a shot!

Vipmediastar_JZ

that happened to me once. I the usb housing case broke but the drive was great. Remove it and connect it separately.

I did just find out HP came out with a 4k screen that may work with my Mac its the HP Envy 27 27 inch display

paulr

I changed to a Mac 8 years ago, Only regret wished I had changed sooner.

safyre

As someone that has used both extensively: PC at Home, Mac at Work. I can say there is very little reason to purchase a mac nowadays unless you have already been committed to their system.

Mac's now use the same components that are available in their PC counterparts. Their software offerings are practically the same as well. Most of the lore surrounding Macs now is due to their legacy, status, and looks.

For example,the other day I was a digital tech for a high end celebrity photoshoot. The main photographer of that shoot preferred that I bring a Macbook for tethering because it "looks more professional". Had nothing to do with specs, performance, hardware, or software, just cosmetic looks only.

My workstation at Home is an Acer V Nitro Laptop:
It has a Quad core i7 Processor, 16gb ram, 256gb ssd + 1tb hd, and gtx 960m graphics card.
It only cost me $800 new.
A comparable Macbook would have cost me $2500, over triple the amount.

If you do go to Mac, be prepared to spend a very large premium but don't expect a major life changing experience.

You would be better off trying another brand other than Asus. I've personally had hit or miss experiences with Asus. I also use Windows 10 and I have no problems whatsoever with the specs on my laptops. Startup time only takes 2-3 seconds (not kidding). I suggest you look into getting an SSD as your main drive as well if you haven't already; it makes a huge difference in speed.

heartyfisher

I use neither :-) ... but that's for another topic .. still always good to see how the rest of the world proceeds..

I think the 2-3 seconds is from windows new semi sleep mode... quite nice really (but not a real boot-up, i disabled mine cos it was not a real reboot.. its still fast though..).

PS You should be able to recover your files from the external drive.. as stated try to use the drive without the drive bay. Most modern hard disks have built in shock resistant tech and could survive small falls. at worst you could get it recovered professionally.

prototype

I use both. I've had a 13" Macbook Pro since 2009 and it's still going strong (save for the battery, which lasts only about 20 mins without being plugged in, but as soon as I replace the battery I am sure I will go right back to the 7 hours it lasted when new). The only reason I built a PC about 8 months ago was so that I could have faster response time looking at RAWS at 100% in Lightroom. My MBP would take a couple seconds to render the files at 100%. Overall I don't have any major complaints with my PC. It does what I need it to, and it was decently cheap.

I used to absolutely love Mac OS, but every update seems to be bringing it closer to iOS, which I am rather indifferent about. I can't say I enjoy using Windows 10 either, so I guess I'm not really anyone's target audience haha.

People always say Macs are overpriced, but when I bought mine over 7 years ago I did a thorough cost analysis and decided it was the best value for me. I used it daily as my only computer for over 6 years (it got lots of abuse from constant traveling/commuting too). My friends who gave me a hard time for it went out and bought laptops with comparable specs for 30-40% less than I paid, but have replaced them once or more in the time that I've owned mine. My Mac experience has been that they offer tremendous value. Your mileage may vary.

Ironheart

I use and support three kinds of systems at work. I have 20,000 Macs, 10,000 Windows, and 10,000 Linux systems. I spend 80% of my time supporting Windows, 15% Linux (I support about 5 different flavors) 5% Mac. When I say "I" I mean a world-wide team of 50 folks that work for me. Say what you will, but I have personally spent no more than 20 min in the last five years doing any troubleshooting or support on my personal Mac OSs across 6 different systems. That includes upgrades. Apps? Sure, but that would be true on any OS. I'm talking just on the hardware/Operating System. It. Just. Works. Why? Because Apple controls the hardware spec, so the OS is tightly coupled, super clean, and the hardware folks can talk to the OS folks and vice versa. Windows? Supports a crap ton of hardware, has 1000s of third-party drivers, and a security model you can drive a fleet of trucks through... Don't get me started...

In a few years we'll all be on tablets anyway. I ran an experiment a few years ago to see if I could do all of my post processing workflow on an iPad. It was about 75% of the way there. Today, probably 90%. The last 10% is no doubt the hardest, but in a few years it will get there...

DenverShooter

I am running a 17 inch MBP with a Promise 32TB raid 6 array with hot standby (24 TB available) via Thunderbolt. I back that up to a Synology NAS located in a data center.

Gave up on PC's for real work years ago. Have a couple of them for some very specialized software that can't run on anything else for my day job. Every time I have to use them they remind me why I don't use PC anymore. USB port handling and drivers installing every time you plug a USB device in and endless software updates and viruses and and and and.

I have a job to get done not be a computer tech.

Windows 10 is yesterdays operating system tomorrow..

Denver Shooter

PB_PM

I have been a long time Mac user (since the 1980's), but I would not recommend switching to the Mac at this point in time. Several reasons, 1. As far as I can tell Apple no longer cares about the Mac platform. The hardware and the OS have seen little if any meaningful improvements since 2011. My personal feeling is that macOS and the Mac itself will likely be dropped in a few (years 2-4 years), software and hardware support along with it. The current CEO is a number cruncher, and the Mac doesn't sell enough units, the Mac's days are numbered, it's a matter of when, not if.

2. Poor graphics support and drivers. Apple does many things well when it comes to hardware, but the graphics side just isn't one of them. The same GPU in Mac OS gives 10-15% less performance on average due to drivers. Don't believe me? Boot the same machine in Windows via bootcamp, use Lightiom etc, then you'll know. On top of that Apple picks GPUs based on energy efficacy rather than performance in all but the highest end $2500-3000+ machines. Final result, CPU side, you get a system that under performs for the price. But hey, you'll get a nice LCD, and a nice OS.

Your best bet is a custom built machine, not an all in one prebuilt system. Those things have too much crap software pre installed.

DaveyJ

I,worked for IBM. I bought a $4,000 Dell. Got rooked! All my recent ones have been Macs. Of all of them I admit a fondness for the iMac 27 with Retina Dusplay and 3TB of Fusion Drive. We have some much bigger Mac Glass tower big ones,, but the. iMac 27 is one great computer for what you pay for it. For around 2,700 it is blazing key fast and very good for photo work.

heartyfisher

@ironheart . good to hear the linux stats of your organization.. I love my little linux box had it for years, just upgrading bits of hardware along the way :-) ..... I have been thinking of switching to Windows again ( V 10 ?) .... Maybe I wont :-)

Ironheart

Use a VM. Just. Say. No. (to Windows)

PB_PM

Ironheart said:

Use a VM. Just. Say. No. (to Windows)

Been running both Mac and Windows machines for many years, and helps other with both. Never any issue with either OS that wasn't due to user error, or down right stupidity. Are there more issues with Windows? Yup, but for any who isn't outright hopeless with computers it's perfectly safe and stable to use.

Linux has things going for it, if you are a software engineer, want a light weight OS, or just love open source and tinkering. To say it's not without it's own issues, such as limited software options, is just as silly to suggest. No OS is perfect, they are all made by humans. The question is, does the OS you use let you complete the tasks you need done in a way that works for your workflow. If yes, keep using it, if not consider a change.

Ironheart

My 10k Linux users are all software developers. You would have to pry it from their cold dead hands. I'm all for running Windows when you have to. I have several hundred users running AutoCAD, which really only has a Windows version (the Mac version is inferior). But 90% of those users run it in a Windows VM on either Mac or Linux. my comment to hearty was to stick with his Linux system and just run a VM if he wants/needs to run a program that requires Windows.

NSXTypeR

PB_PM said:

I have been a long time Mac user (since the 1980's), but I would not recommend switching to the Mac at this point in time. Several reasons, 1. As far as I can tell Apple no longer cares about the Mac platform. The hardware and the OS have seen little if any meaningful improvements since 2011. My personal feeling is that macOS and the Mac itself will likely be dropped in a few (years 2-4 years), software and hardware support along with it. The current CEO is a number cruncher, and the Mac doesn't sell enough units, the Mac's days are numbered, it's a matter of when, not if.

2. Poor graphics support and drivers. Apple does many things well when it comes to hardware, but the graphics side just isn't one of them. The same GPU in Mac OS gives 10-15% less performance on average due to drivers. Don't believe me? Boot the same machine in Windows via bootcamp, use Lightiom etc, then you'll know. On top of that Apple picks GPUs based on energy efficacy rather than performance in all but the highest end $2500-3000+ machines. Final result, CPU side, you get a system that under performs for the price. But hey, you'll get a nice LCD, and a nice OS.

Your best bet is a custom built machine, not an all in one prebuilt system. Those things have too much crap software pre installed.

I have to agree, I've been using a Mac since I started college in 2008 and I like the OS a lot. The last Mac I purchased was in 2013 and it's been going strong since, it's a late 2012 MacBook Pro 13 inch. I purposely purchased it because it was the last ones that you could update the internals to some extent.

The latest MacBook Pro updates do not impress me at all- no one cares about the Touch Bar, and it wasn't a hardware feature that anyone needed. The focus is all wrong in Mac hardware, and the platform has been languishing for years. I love the seamless backups, but honestly it's not worth it now.

heartyfisher

Most organizations provide you with a standard operating environment.. so I was so pleasantly surprised when one organization gave me the option of just getting the hardware and network access parameters !! and you could install whatever operating system you wanted !! and whatever software you wanted.. as long as you got your job done !! What an awesome way to not disrespect your employees ! No need to feel technically straitjacketed by paranoid, dysfunctional, outdated, software, systems and "standards". Sigh.. I have not seen this anywhere else.

PS : so I installed linux :-)
PPS: totally understand ".. pry it from their cold dead hands"

PPPS: In NR terms the "Standard PC" is like a Coolpix camera and what I got was a D5 and a full set of Nikkor lenses..

Havoc

I want to thank everyone for their responses, lots of information to take in....my real job has kept me away from the forums but I'm trying to catch up on this.

Havoc

heartyfisher said:

I use neither :-) ...

PS You should be able to recover your files from the external drive.. as stated try to use the drive without the drive bay. Most modern hard disks have built in shock resistant tech and could survive small falls. at worst you could get it recovered professionally.

Thanks, I've taken it to a local shop who works a lot with data recovery and he's tried several different ways with several different machines and couldn't pull up the data...he suggested that Ill need to go to the manufacture (Western Digital). This is why I'm looking at redundancy also. There are some local performers who have passed away (Baltimore music scene) and it would be nice to be able to get those back.

Thank you,
Steve

rmp

"6 of one half a dozen of the other" Translation = choose one and move on.

DaveyJ

Western Digital? Not good in my experience. I sure am not a Mac cheerleader. My hands on experience with computers goes back to the early 60s. I won't buy another Mac Book Pro from Mac as the iMac is a better deal. Internet I do with a tiny little mini iPad. Graphics not good on Mac? Not for what I have seen. Photos, video, music is all pretty good on Mac. All of the first computersI have been around were custom built. To me those days are over! I would NOT ever go back. In terms of external hard drive Only Lacie has been with a damn! I like the 1 to 3 TB blue eyed Lacies. I do think RMP's advice is good. But one problem with all of this, is we don't know the entirety of what is out there. My way has been once bitten, twice shy! That's why I like the iMac 27 with Retina display. Good all around system, but not for transport. That is where I go to mini iPad and would never recommend that small tablet path for overall use. I just am Leary of Internet.

PB_PM

DaveyJ said:

Western Digital? Not good in my experience.

Graphics not good on Mac? Not for what I have seen. Photos, video, music is all pretty good on Mac.

Hard drive experience is a mixed bag, both the big brands (Western Digital and Seagate, the two of them own all the other HDD brands, except Toshiba) have made bad drives. Most tests show that they go in cycles, for a few years Seagate was the worst, right now WD isn't too hot for some higher capacity drives (4+GB). Failure rates are in line with what one should expect for any mechanical device. If you want more purely anecdotal evidence I've only had one hard drive fail on me in over 25+ years of using computers equipped with them, (it was Hitachi for those who care), and that was less than a week old.

Video on the Mac. I'm not talking about the quality of the video/image playback, nor the quality of screen, which seems to be what you're talking about. I'm talking about the actual computing power output of the graphics card. The same GPU in Windows provides better performance in 3D rendering, video rendering and encoding .etc, simply because the graphics drivers in Windows are more mature. Why? The GPU manufaturers sell far more hardware to Windows machines, so they focus driver (and firmware) support on that platform. In addition Apple is always way behind on adapting to the newest versions of graphics platforms, such as OpenGL, which provides 3D rending on the Mac OS platform.

You won't notice the difference in something as low key as image playback (TIFF, jpeg) or video playback (mp4, H264). What you will notice is slower times loading of RAW files in Lightroom (which uses GPU acceleration to speed up the process). Mind you in apps like LR the difference might be 1-2 seconds, depending on the GPU, so it's hardly something the average person would see. Noticeable applications would be rendering RAW video in applications that support GPU acceleration, CAD,and any program that uses 3D rendering, games, uncompressed high resolution video playback (4k+ files).

KnockKnock

Another IT admin here. I'd say hardware is 10-30% longer lasting on the Mac side. Those 25% cheaper PC's last about 25% less long. Both have drive or fans die in 5 yrs. Try to torque the body of a Macbook these days - then do that with a T460s. The latter creaks and groans.

More importantly OS rot tends to kick in a little sooner with Windows 7-10. Used to be worse. After 3 years of work things get groggy on the windows side. It takes 5 years for that to happen on the Mac side.

Servers and high end (gaming!) workstations are a different thing. Windows Server 2008 on an IBM server, still going strong. Much like a 2008 Mac Pro. I'd say both platforms are lacking considerable improvement/development on the desktop side. Microsoft seems to be getting their Software act together again, but Windows on the desktop side hasn't much compelling, nor Mac, which is so concerned about iOS these days.

It will be interesting to see if the big tablet platforms make any further inroads. Skeptical. As for photo work, 99% of of these differences are moot. Spend $2500 on anything and run Lightroom and your experience will be very similar. Your own abilities and familiarities will make more of a difference than the platform. Usually taking a Lynda course on computing and photoshop pay off more than the time spent switching computers. But people like new toys.

BabaGanoush

PB_PM said:

I have been a long time Mac user (since the 1980's), but I would not recommend switching to the Mac at this point in time. Several reasons, 1. As far as I can tell Apple no longer cares about the Mac platform. The hardware and the OS have seen little if any meaningful improvements since 2011. My personal feeling is that macOS and the Mac itself will likely be dropped in a few (years 2-4 years), software and hardware support along with it. The current CEO is a number cruncher, and the Mac doesn't sell enough units, the Mac's days are numbered, it's a matter of when, not if.

I agree with your assessment about the dire future of the Mac computers. Most of Apple's profits these days comes from the iPhone, and so that is where a lot of Apple's attention is focused when it is not thinking about getting into the autonomous automobile market. Apple is clearly transitioning from a mostly computer company into a predominantly lifestyle company. I imagine there will be at least one more generation of Apple desktops over the next 2-3 years, but I cannot see any future for desktop Macs beyond a 5 year horizon. Perhaps the laptop line will survive because of Apple's interest in mobile appliances like the iPhone, but I expect the Mac Pro product line will vanish first and then eventually so will the iMac.

For my personal computer, I switched from Windows/Intel machines to Macs around 2001 (at work I'd long had a SUN workstation that ran Solaris). I've owned a G4, a G5, and now have a Mac Pro (late 2013). Each one of the three has had a problem with its video card at about the 2.5 year point, needing a replacement. My current machine, the Mac Pro, has just come back from the Apple store after a week of repair work, which saw the replacement of an I/O board and an 8 GB memory DIMM. The cost of the repair was covered in full (total cost $437) by my AppleCare plan.

As for my current setup, it's a Mac Pro with 3.5 GHz 6-cores, 32 GB memory, dual AMD D500 GPUs, and 18 TB of disk storage in two separate external Thunderbolt 2 enclosures. I have a first generation Pegasus2 TB2 enclosure with 4 x 2TB HDDs running in a RAID 10 configuration. That enclosure turns out to be limited to 2TB drives, which was not disclosed to buyers like me when Apple was selling those enclosures back in 2014 when I bought my machine. In any case, that's where I keep my Lightroom library and my library of videos. I've done bench tests on that RAID setup; the READ and WRITE performance is as good as it gets. The other TB2 enclosure is from OWC and holds a 4TB HDD Time Machine backup drive, another 4 TB HDD scratch drive, and 2 1TB SSDs. The OWC enclosure just died on me after less than 2 years service and has to be replaced. The cost of replacement may be covered by my American Express card. I will be looking into that this coming week.

UPDATE: With my Mac Pro repaired, my OWC enclosure has miraculously come back to life. Hallelujah. Unfortunately, El Capitan still sux, with more bugs than a rainforest in South America.
WC

DenverShooter

Just ran the BlackMagic Design speed test on my 32 TB Promise Raid 6 Array and it clocked 444 MB/s write and 513 MB/s read. The internal MPB drive clocked 36 MB/s write and 73 MB/s read. Time to install the 2 TB Samsung 850 Pro SSD drive in the MBP...

Denver Shooter