OMD E-M5 vs. Fuji X-E1 vs. Sony Nex7 vs. Nikon 1 V2

aquarian_light

I'm sure we've talked about all these cameras before separately, but let's put the comparisons all in one place.
Needing a small interchangeable lens mirrorless to function as my take-with-me-everywhere/street camera that is good enough to serve as an emergency backup camera should my D800E crap out for what ever reason.
Availability of f2.8 or faster lenses is very important
Higher ISO is less of a concern
Higher FPS bursts preferable (5+)
MUST have a viewfinder. I don't care if its EVF or OVF. I'd consider a different camera without a built-in one if it's got an attachable one and is exceptional in other areas.
I've read online reviews, and most of them aren't much in the way of helpful, putting them all into a similar class. They all seem to perform admirably, but what I'm more concerned about is ergonomics, and future success of the system. I don't want to spend 2 grand on a camera system that's going to drop out of favorability like my Olympus E system camera did. (I bought my E-420 only a year before olympus cancelled new development in the line.) The OMD seems to be the front runner in this regard, but I'm hesitant with Olympus cause it's hard to rebuild trust! Olympus you hurt me! lol
The Fuji seems to be growing VERY quickly
The Nex is fairly well established but I'm hesitant with Sony just in General
And the 1 V2 seems to not be quite so widespread.

Any thoughts on any of the cameras?

Godless

I have the OM-D E-M5. The only lenses I currently have are the 12mm f/2 and 45mm f/1.8 M.Zuikos and I love them. Especially the 12mm. I have used a friend´s Panasonic 100-300 for bird shots occasionally (low keeper rate with these because of the OM-D s horrid AF tracking). I use OM-D mostly for landscapes and flowers & other mostly inanimate objects so it won´t bother me as much. I would love to see an improvement in the next model though.

The reason why the reviews put these cameras into a similar class is because they are a similar class when most properties are considered.

If I remember correctly, the Nikon 1 is the only camera of those mentioned that can focus on moving objects fast enough. Crappiest lens selection though (would use CX lenses only, as I am not a fan of adapting huge FX lenses onto tiny cameras) and the sensor is not good enough in my opinion.

m4/3 has the best lens selection available. If I had to pick another system of these, it would be Fuji, because of the excellent 14mm wide and 60mm macro lenses and the Fuji feeling.

aquarian_light

Yes, I've seen people saying that the OMD doesn't track worth a damn, but like you I'm to worried about that. My 800 is my system for that. Throw it into DX mode in JPG and a battery pack, and it's well enough for sports and wildlife. But the thing that is important is the single servo focus performance. As I said it'll be a backup (whatever I get) to the D800 if say at a wedding it dies on me. So, focusing in low light with a fast lens if very important. I haven't heard much in the way of how these systems perform in those situations. Doesn't need to be as good as the D800, I certainly don't expect that, but it's got to work well enough to get the job done.

Gab

I seriously considered swapping my d7k for a mirrorless system and done some research.
My findings: (take into consideration, that I'm not very interested in tele lenses)

Nex: Their "kit" lenses are cheap and the image quality is quite decent. I really like that, if you have the 16mm pancake, you can use Sony's very own fisheye and rectangular wide angle converter for it, these conversion lenses are specially made for this lens and the quality is surprisingly usable considering the cost, definitely the cheapest UWA option by far in the mirroress world. Focus peaking is nice and now with the Metabones booster you can use pretty much any DSLR lens available and the quality is quite decent. Focus speed is about average and the menus are designed for 4 years old children.

V2: All lenses for this are of kit lens quality. Don't expect creamy bokeh, even if u manage to get out of focus backgrounds it won't be pretty.(no nice sunstars either) What I like about the V2 is the size, the focus speed/AI and the build quality is also awesome. The sensor is a great weakness, I'm not biased against smaller sensors, its just the DR is pretty low compared to what I'm used to on the d7000 & the colors don't look so good, I imagine these are less problematic in B&W.

OMD E-M5: Now this is a really good camera. It has really good focusing, overall it's very responsive. The sensor stabilizer makes it an excellent low light camera. The Dynamic range is also pretty good, despite what DXOmark would let you believe, it's in real life usage very close to what my d7000 can do. (I've tested plenty of raw samples in LR4.3) My main problem with the OMD are the lenses. Most ppl tend to agree that the M43 is very mature system with 214234234 lenses available & that is certainly true, but the good lenses for the m43 system are ridiculously expensive and even the expensive lenses don't deliver all that well. The (not always so) cheap kit lenses are horrible, even when compared to Nikon1 lenses. The cheap Panasonic primes are so so and everything that's better is just crazy expensive.

Fuji xe-1: This is my fave of the lot. A few times I almost pulled the trigger on selling my d7k because of it. First the bad, the focusing is not reliable nor fast in low light, manual focusing is a bit annoying, the evf lags, the battery life is bad, RAW processing is cumbersome, LR4 doesn't have a proper demosaicing algorithm for Fuji, so it's barely usable, if I had this camera I would either use the supplied raw converter for a dng conversion first and then edit the dng files in LR4(not certain if that works tho, but it seems likely), or shoot jpegs with 200%+ DR and load those in LR. Also the sensor is using Fuji's unique array, which is not exactly excellent in all respects. In the online media the sensor is pretty much only being praised, but I'm yet to hear about the problem I've noticed on pretty much all images with green vegetation on them. Even with in camera Jpeg rendering(which is pretty much best in class) grass and leaves just look weird at 50%+ magnification, this is not very prominent on small image sizes, but looking at them on a 40" TV it's easy to notice, especially if cropping in post was required. Now the good: The sensor has no AA filter and probably thanks to the new array and Fuji demosaicing the micro contrast is amazing and in this case it's not just a lens thing. The camera is absolutely beautiful, the controls are great, aperture rings on the lenses are awesome, everything's full metal. The 18-55(f2.8-f4) kit lens for it is absolutely amazing, it has no serious optical flaws (I don't care about the need for distortion correction), it's simply the best/sharpest kit lens ever made(there is no contest rlly), great contrast in contra-light too. You don't have this kind of quality on Nikon DX , well actually ye my 16-35VR is a tiny bit better, but who cares, it's a HUGE & expensive lens. The other lens I would absolutely buy for this body is the 35mm 1.4. It's worlds better than the 35mm 1.8g DX lens. Recently I tried myself at street photography (no results worth sharing yet) and what I noticed with the 1.8g is that coma and regular flare shows up strongly in the night shots and I love to have street lights in the frame, so this is not that small of an issue for me. Also this Fuji 1.4 has significantly better bokeh than the Nikon & I'm talking about quality not quantity. The other Fuji lenses are all great too, although not very interesting for me. The high Iso is pretty decent, probably the best in class, but I have the feeling that the cameras high iso abilities are a bit exaggerated, it's not a class above what current Nikon DX cameras (or the OMD/NEXes) can do.

Gab

Reasons why I haven't sold my d7k yet:
1. It's not that much larger with the 35mm lens on it. (and I like that focal length for walking around)
2. The high iso has gotten a lot better recently. Now this is quite funny :-), the d7k has a very annoying kind of color banding over iso2500 and for a very long time that was the max iso I've used, but a few weeks ago I noticed that LR4.3 can now perfectly remove the banding, I'm not exactly sure when this change happened, but now I started using iso6400 for my low light shots and the noise looks very film like and the colors / dr at high iso etc. are pretty comparable to to the Fuji samples I've seen.
3. I have a k3 split prism focusing screen for my d7k & I can focus with it fairly reliably in any light, or override focusing when my camera is being stubborn with locking on walls behind subjects. (Fuji manual focusing would be horrible compared to this) Also no EVF lag.. :-)
4. The d7k has a great ergonomy, lots of knobs/buttons for everything I need, the menu system is also very logical, it's plain simple also. (in this respect the OMD and the Fujis are decent too)
5. The metering and WB should be perfect on mirrorless cameras, but the d7000 nails this too most of the time, strangely.
6. I don't have a battery grip or anything, but the d7k when fully charged will last a day with a single battery, pretty much regardless what you do with it. (once I went to the Zoo, shot 600 pictures there, then went shortly after to attend a family event, shot 500+ pictures there and the next day I went out on a hike, forgot to charge the camera too and it still worked with 1 bar left when I got home from there.) All the mirrorless cameras fail in this area, you will need spares.
7. Powerful onboard flash, it's not very important, but I find it very useful at times.

(had to split my post into 2 parts, because it was 1576 characters too long)

Mike_Kobal

I did a quick comparison here (except for the V1, which has the fastest af)
http://www.mikekobal.com/blog/?p=5157

aquarian_light

Gab, funny you should mention the sensors. That's one of the reasons I'm skeptical of both the Fuji and the V2. The lenses are why I shy from the OMD, and the sony-only flash shoe is a huge turn off for the Nex's. In all honesty I'm leaning towards the Fuji simply because the lenses are reviewed to be the best of the best. The focusing can be fixed with firmware (so I've read) and the sensor demosaicing can be updated to LR. I'd be shooting in JPGs most the time anyway

Msmoto

I think the NEX 6 has a standard flash shoe...

Godless

OMD E-M5: Now this is a really good camera. My main problem with the OMD are the lenses. even the expensive lenses don't deliver all that well.

Which ones?

The Olympus M. Zuiko 12/2, 45/1.8, 75/1.8 and 60/2.8 macro lenses are really excellent pieces of work.

heartyfisher

@ Gab, Nice review! Some of what you said I have surmised but you put it nicely in words! I am also leaning towards the X-E1.. however I did not consider the EVF lag. How bad is it ?

The M43 looks really nice with access to 3party lenses from sigma as well so thats a great+ .. the cx ... I am not sure. I have been looking at it but the role I want for it is already filled by my camera phone !!

But back to the XE1.. that new pancake 27mm really looks intriguing. I used to love the 40mm focal length in my film days.. and with this i get that back !! and its a pancake ! You can carry this combo anywhere ! I will never be without a top class camera again!

Another plus for me is that its a DX sized sensor while all the others are a bit smaller..
I have the S5pro and i have been missing the Fuji colours .. I understand that the X-E1 has the same great colours!

Again thank you for your insightful post.

Gab

OMD E-M5: Now this is a really good camera. My main problem with the OMD are the lenses. even the expensive lenses don't deliver all that well.

Which ones?

The Olympus M. Zuiko 12/2, 45/1.8, 75/1.8 and 60/2.8 macro lenses are really excellent pieces of work.

Touché I guess. Yes the 45mm 1.8 lens is pretty good for a portrait lens.
The 12/2 is something I never rlly considered. I would want to call it a crazy expensive lens for the performance, but it's not really all things considered. Looking at the samples it's pretty much better than any 24mm equiv prime ever made, thanks for pointing these lenses out to me, they are certainly worth some consideration.

[Deleted User]

I have the NEX-7 since april last year for travelling light. This is a super camera with NO available lenses. 24MP and you can do everything with the camera. I have a 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 lens which I use on vacation and a perfect Sigma 30mm f/2.8 (169.- euro) instead of the $1000.- 24mm Zeiss.

You don't buy a camera for 1200 euro and there are no quality lenses. A 18-200mm f/6.3 does not do credit at this sensor and a 30mm, well.... I don't use so often, yes the street.

Instead of buying the 24mm Zeiss for 1000 euro, I think to buy the Fuji APS-C camera with the 23mm f/2, which is 699.-. You can put that camera in your pocket, high quality, cheaper, don't have to change the lens etc. I then have a f/2 lens with a perfect camera attached to it (grin). Even the new Fuji x100s is there, but still 1299.- euro, which will go to 1000.- I believe.

Sony promised, but still doesn't come with quality lenses and Sigma threatend with several for the e-mount this year, but I have to wait for it.

Another con for Sony is, they arefar too expensive.

Wish that Nikon comes with one mirrorless APS-C sometime.

adamz

I had sony nex-5 and sold it due to lack of usable lenses and lack of EVF. IQ was on par with d300s/d90. last year I've done my own research and decided to go for V1, why.
OMD - handling and extreme plastic feel also the design (look). it looks great on the pictures but once You put it in Your hands it's way to small for bigger hands.
Lumix GX1 -that was my choice until I checked the price of body and EVF set. perfect handling, great for still and video. good choice of lenses (same as for OMD). great handling. drawbacks: couldn't use my F-mount lenses with AF but could handled this.
V2 - sensor not as good as on V1, for me Mpx is not what matters the most. different battery than on d800, which is my prime travel cam.
V1 - firstly what I didn't liked about this one: it needs a lot of light to get excellent pictures. it's not true that You can't get good bokeh on it, You can though it takes more practice. IQ of the kit lenses is exceptional as they are constructed to get it's maximum wide open. prise wise it's the best option on the market right now. if You decide one day You ain't gonna use it, You still have a spare bat and charger for d800/d7000/d600 cameras. apart from that it works quite good with FT1 allowing You to get a lot of inexpensive lenses like 35/1.8, 50/1.8 to work with.


V1 + N10-30/3.5-5.6 @ 27.6mm, f5.6, iso 100, 1/400

TaoTeJared

I keep my eye on all of these as well. I have a fuji X100 that is my go anywhere camera and actually do use it as a b&W primary camera for events. My favorite focal length is 50mm but the 35mm & 85mm is right behind it so it fits well. Seeing the demos of the new X100s with it's wicked fast AF - I am really tempted to jump on board that one, although I would prefer a 50mm.

All of the mirrorless systems really have their niches and I get so boggled. All of the nuances I focus on, none of them cover more than one, so I keep sitting on the sidelines.
What they will not do:
-Sports and wildlife - None of them seem to do this well enough for pro work.
-None of them have tracking AF like DSLRs for their high FPS. For the high FPS they just focus on the first point, and just keep firing away as if the subject didn't move. When you do want tracking on, they drop to 1-2FPS.
-The other larger problem is the lack of a good Flash system for any of them. They are still in the 1980's when it comes to flashes.
-ISOs really do end at 1600 on most, Fuji and Sony, maybe 2500 for pro work, 6400 for personal stuff.
-People use (or say they do) many MF lenses and these systems can accept those. Focusing is rough though and I don't find it remotely quick enough for anything but stationary objects.
-Expensive!!!! For a decent kit (3 great lenses, 3 batteries, maybe a grip) they all cost about $2,300.

My thoughts so far:
Nikon CX system - good for soccer moms - probably the best "soccer" shots out of the bunch I have seen. I could not use as a back up at all. If one was going to disappear this one or the Canon mirrorless system would first. Their focus is more on those who would buy the all in one supper zooms. It does that very well though as a no frills system. If you just wanted to shoot and not think, this would probably be the one.

Canon - Not well reviewed - really haven't' seen much on this one at all. I think there is only a couple of lenses as well.

Olympus: Has in body IS which I think is a good thing. A bit more focused on photography. Arguably the best lens line up for sure. Really does have a full lens system that could back up a DSLR. Probably on my short list for sure due to build quality - my go around camera's take a beating. If I was traveling the world with back pack, I would choose this and my D800. You can also add the Panasonic 35mm f1.4 Leica lens. The M. Zuiko glass has always been top notch. I also find it a bit small in my hands.

Panasonic's line seems to do video better but lack of in body IS. Their focus does seem to be more video and the IQ is just a notch behind Olympus with the newer systems. Shares all the m 4/3rds line of lenses.

Fuji's options are more of a Image maker than anything else. The quality of the images trumps all the others in my eye. AF is great in good light, but does fall off. The Firmware updates have fixed most of the issues, but it is slower than the rest. Fuji glass is outstanding - just not much of it yet. I think this can easy replace DSLRs for slower type of shooting. You can use Nikon flashes (not CLS) on fuji as well. Best B&W image conversions. The xpro1 (same as the X100) has the best viewfinder hands down. I just love that thing. The issue with the focus can not be fully fixed by firmware as it is the "focus by wire" they have used so far in their lenses. If they refresh the lenses and fixed it, my mind would be made up.

Sony NEX7 is probably the best IQ resolution camera and mobile one as well. The NEX6 has actually outdone all the others in High ISO performance as well (This has really caught my eye as noise is controlled to 6400 very well.) Does suffer from the lack of lenses but they are pumping them out at a good pace. Zeiss is going to produce some AF lenses for it so the quality (and the price tags) will go up for sure.

Right now I'm swaying towards the X100s (because I know it and can move really fast with it - add the new AF focus and that addressed my issues.) The other thing is that the X100s is the cheapest out of all of them - you can't buy more lenses for it;) Then tied with theFuji X-pro (refresh) and the OMD-m5. The NEX6 with a 50mm (due to the ISO and size) and the RX1 has skipped in there but I too have a weird thing about buying Sony cameras.

Msmoto

I have found my little Olympus E-PL2 seems to take some great shots. ISO is quite limited as anything over about 1600 is poor. But, until the APSC Nikon Mirrorless comes out, I am hanging out with this. I have thought of one of the above...the NEX 6 or 7, but I want a body which will accept all the Nikon F mount lenses I have and function fully.

Oh, it must have an APSC sensor...

aquarian_light

So it seems the real competition has come down to the Fuji and the Olympus. Only thing that bothers me about the fuji is that it's longest lens atm is a 60mm(90 equiv) which is just barely a portrait lens. Not gonna be doing and headshots with it thats for sure. I'd like to see something of a 110-140 equiv. and I'd be sold. Something like the olympus 75mm (150 equiv) would make the fuji lens set up complete with a 27mm equiv. a 52 equiv. a 90 equiv. and a ~130 equiv. I'd be staying away from the zooms. Not because theyre bad or anything but just because the lenses are always too big for the small camera. Is there a Fujifilm rumors site that might say anything about the future lens lineup? lol

adamz

the problem with fuji is the lack of RAW support in any software except from fuji

aquarian_light

the problem with fuji is the lack of RAW support in any software except from fuji

that wont be an issue for me. The camera will be shot in JPG 95% of the time.

TaoTeJared

Unlike Nikon - Fujifilm does let us know what is coming.
Fuji Xpro lens map:


Doesn't look like there is a 150mm equiv on the horizon. I think for portraits that I have seen, Fuji does better. Fuji Jpeg engine is much better as well. But...the Oly glass is tempting though. It's hard when one system is more mature than the other for sure.

aquarian_light

Yes... seems as though if I am wanting to do any potraiture with it, at least outdoor portraiture I'd be stuck with the 55-200. If only one could put those Zuiko lenses on the fuji! *grumble*

heartyfisher

Yes... seems as though if I am wanting to do any potraiture with it, at least outdoor portraiture I'd be stuck with the 55-200. If only one could put those Zuiko lenses on the fuji! *grumble*

stuck ? considering its range is wider and aperture is wider than teh nikkor 70-200 F4 .. I think its an excellent option.. if the performance is up to the standard of their other lenses its will be awesome !.. Its the lens I am thinking of getting if i do jump ship ! :-)

That and the pencake 27mm.. just waiting for the dxomark sensor test and the lens reviews :-)

aquarian_light

stuck ? considering its range is wider and aperture is wider than teh nikkor 70-200 F4 .. I think its an excellent option.. if the performance is up to the standard of their other lenses its will be awesome !.. Its the lens I am thinking of getting if i do jump ship ! :-)

That and the pencake 27mm.. just waiting for the dxomark sensor test and the lens reviews :-)

Oh then chalk it up to suspicion of that kind of zoom. It's basically a 70-300. and if history serves, 70-300's are either useless at 70, or useless at 300, or useless in the middle and rarely have decent IQ. At least compared to the primes they've already put out. I might be wrong, I might be dead wrong and it's a fabulous lens. But I'm not holding my breath

heartyfisher

stuck ? considering its range is wider and aperture is wider than teh nikkor 70-200 F4 .. I think its an excellent option.. if the performance is up to the standard of their other lenses its will be awesome !.. Its the lens I am thinking of getting if i do jump ship ! :-)

That and the pencake 27mm.. just waiting for the dxomark sensor test and the lens reviews :-)

Oh then chalk it up to suspicion of that kind of zoom. It's basically a 70-300. and if history serves, 70-300's are either useless at 70, or useless at 300, or useless in the middle and rarely have decent IQ. At least compared to the primes they've already put out. I might be wrong, I might be dead wrong and it's a fabulous lens. But I'm not holding my breath

Logically I agree with you .. but i tend to be a dreamer :-) .. the other fujinon lenses including the 18-55 reviews as excellent ! with great bokeh and excellent shapness! I have high hopes that the 55-200 will have a similar pro quality treatment .. remember fuji does not have a "pro" lens line up to defend. their dx lenses can be as good as they can be without marketing having a hand hamstringing them.

PS isn't it cool to see the aperture ring on the lense again ! :-)

heartyfisher

the problem with fuji is the lack of RAW support in any software except from fuji

that wont be an issue for me. The camera will be shot in JPG 95% of the time.

I have the fuji S5pro.. and i can tell you the Jpg from it is awesome ! somehow its almost as good as raw! you don't get banding at all ! makes the nikon jpegs look like P&S !.

Its likely that the jpg from the XE1 will be at least as good.

aquarian_light

Logically I agree with you .. but i tend to be a dreamer :-) .. the other fujinon lenses including the 18-55 reviews as excellent ! with great bokeh and excellent shapness! I have high hopes that the 55-200 will have a similar pro quality treatment .. remember fuji does not have a "pro" lens line up to defend. their dx lenses can be as good as they can be without marketing having a hand hamstringing them.

PS isn't it cool to see the aperture ring on the lense again ! :-)

Either way lol Zooms are always larger than primes. I've already stated my desire to keep the system small. a medium tele doesn't have to be huge. sure it might be a bit larger cause the lens has to cover a larger sensor on the fuji than on the olympus. But I betcha they can put together an 90 prime (135 equiv) thats relatively small without much trouble. That's all I'm askin for here lol a 55-200 zoom is really just too much. The best zoom lens ever made is attached to the bottom of each of your legs

heartyfisher

Just curious.. why are you wanting a 90 prime ? seems like an odd Focal length for a dx system.. (no one makes one!)