Color Help

ericktessier

I maintain that the new screen (on which he does the post-processing) is "too good" and need calibration. He does the post-processing with an "filter" (the screen) that enhances saturation/contrast/anything you want and when you look at the picture created on all the other devices then you see the real picture you have created (without the "filter").

Try the exact same post-process starting with a RAW file on another device/screen and create a picture you will like. Save the picture as you do after. Go look at the picture on all your other devices you can and the picture will still look good.

Then it will confirm your new screen needs calibration (a good one with the good tools).

kanuck

I went into a photo lab today and had my monitor calibrated basically increased the Hue but I still can't get any consistency as my finished prints still look actually worse than RAW files on another computer or device such as a Ipad...

kanuck

ericktessier said:

I maintain that the new screen (on which he does the post-processing) is "too good" and need calibration. He does the post-processing with an "filter" (the screen) that enhances saturation/contrast/anything you want and when you look at the picture created on all the other devices then you see the real picture you have created (without the "filter").

Try the exact same post-process starting with a RAW file on another device/screen and create a picture you will like. Save the picture as you do after. Go look at the picture on all your other devices you can and the picture will still look good.

Then it will confirm your new screen needs calibration (a good one with the good tools).

Pictures processed on my old computer look fine as uploads on social media and other devices. They also look good on my new computer. However, my new computer's processed files look like crap when shown on other devices or computers.

ericktessier

Then it confirms that only your new computer is the problem and not the way you save your file or process your pictures. You can get good results except with your new computer (for now, we'll find a way to solve this issue).

Can you find an ICM file (calibration profile of the screen)? Usually right-click on the desktop, the screen resolution, advanced parameters, "gestion des couleurs" (sorry I only have it in french) and then you should have access to the icm. Is there anything there?

Ironheart

Personally I would not do a double jpg conversion, I would save from PS as a TIFF or PSD for final import into LR. Any editing done to a jpg could degrade the image, meaning I would keep it in 16-bit color land until the final jpg. However, that shouldn't cause the problem you are seeing.

kanuck

Old images that look fine on both computers that I processed serve as a reference for me now. Its strange ever since I got my new computer and loaded it with Lightroom and Photoshop, I have noticed that the settings I usually use on my other computer are off. As a test, I took my recent edited images and ran them through my old computer and software. I notice I get a warning with regards to the Embedded Profile Mismatch! It says that the document has an embedded color profile that does not match the current RGB working space.

Embedded: ProPhoto RGB
Working: sRGB IEC61966-2.1

What would you like to do?

Use the embedded profile (instead of working space)
Convert document colors to the working space
Discard the embedded profile (don't color manage)

I have tried all 3 options and still get the same problem. The images definitely have that awful looking ProPhoto RGB look to them when viewed on my Iphone, Ipad, other computers and other computers when looking at social media. Something is wrong with the embedded profile on my new computer, but I set the working space to sRGB for sure. I am up to 46 hours now trying to solve this problem in the last 4 days....I also order Spyder 5 Pro off Ebay last night but I am sure that the problem is the embedded color profiles on my new computer's Adobe software....

ericktessier

We are back to the same point (just more confirmed) : the problem comes from the screen calibration.

A lot of informations can be found here : http://www.gballard.net/psd/cmstheory.html

I abandonned the idea to calibrate my laptop screen (Lenovo Ideapad) since I can't get good results (calibrating with X-Rite). I always use an external screen (pretty cheap but gives way better results than my laptop screen) that was calibrated and that I know is correct with the majority of the displays and printing.

I don't think a laptop screen is the perfect tool (unless it's mac but I can't confirm since I never used a mac) to post-process pictures and I wouldn't use a "gamer" laptop to do this (neither a "gamer" screen).

Oh! Can you check something in Photoshop. I only have the menu in french but I'm sure you can find the equivalent...

Affichage > Format d'épreuve (the first one on top in my version) > Which one is checked? RGB Monitor or another one? It shouldn't be RGB Monitor as I understand but maybe RGB (sRGB)? This I don't know...

snakebunk

What if you import a raw file into LR and export directly to jpg? (without the whole workflow involving PS)

kanuck

snakebunk said:

What if you import a raw file into LR and export directly to jpg? (without the whole workflow involving PS)

Seems obvious, but not a bad idea. I will give this a shot. Maybe I can turn of the embedding in PS as well perhaps.

ggbutcher

It almost sounds like LR on your new computer is saving the wrong ICC profile to the JPEG metadata. You may be saving the image as sRGB, but if a ProPhoto profile is what is inserted in the metadata, it'll confuse the color-managed image viewers. Or, you might be saving with a V4 profile, and some viewers only recognize the V2 profiles; this is particularly nasty mismatch because it doesn't manifest itself in all software. I'm not familiar with LR, but I just finished writing color management into my software, and it is a real pain to get straight.
________________________________
Ah, I wrote the above last night but didn't post it because I'm not really familiar with LR. However, based on what your old setup is telling you, this probably bears investigation. One thing: the "embedded profile" your software is referring to is the profile embedded in the image metadata. Make sure you're considering this: color-managed software that reads your image wants to assume the image data was coded using the embedded profile. If these don't match, weirdness ensues.

henrik1963

Have you been playing with printer settings on your new computer? I can get my iMac to "preview" how my picture will look if I print it. Turning that on and off will change how my picture looks - dont know what that feature is called. I use LR too.

Edit to add: I have downloaded special profiles for the paper in my printer - that changes things too.

kanuck

Tried a few other suggestions but still no use. Up to 50+ hours working on this now. Can't solve it. I believe I am beginning to go a bit mad.....

spraynpray

Yeah, new laptops can do that to you. @ggbutcher seems to have a good idea there, any good kanuck?

kanuck

I tried tinkering with the embedded data and checking that profiles in Lightroom and Photoshop match but still same old problem. I am attending a Nikon editing workshop tomorrow so I'm hoping to show my problems to them. I didn't even turn my laptop on today and it was the best day I've had all week. I look at my camera and new computer now and it makes me feel sick to my stomach. Kind of like that credit card balance that won't go away or that back pain you can't seem to shake. It's depressing. I might go back to shooting film and keep the digital for b&w only because b&w look fine. I'll see if Nikon Here in Oman and the Photography Society can help me out. Definite low point in my photographic career.

Ironheart

@kanuck I can appreciate where you are at, but trust me, we will get to the bottom of it. What would be most helpful is to be able to examine the actual files as you take them through your workflow. The facebook file you posted above is munge-a-fied (technical term) by facebook's servers, and 99% of the EXIF is stripped out.

The best photo would be one that has lots of colors, like an x-rite passport color checker

Can you create a (free) dropbox account and post the following files there?

RAW file as given by the camera
First pass jpeg as developed by LR
Second pass jpeg as produced by PS
Final jpeg as finished by LR

If you post those files unmodified, I'll be able to tell which step of the process is killing the color. If you can't create a dropbox account (or google drive, or box.com, or...) LMK, and I'll give you a link to a folder to drop your files into.

Either way, we're going to solve this for you.

spraynpray

Top man Ironheart.

kanuck

Hi, I have dropbox and the 4 files ready to go. Could you give me your email address to share the files with through dropbox? I have 2 dropbox files to send you. One is titled modified and the other is unmodified. The 4 modified ones have rich colors and details on my new computer and they look like crap on everything else. You might want to look at these? The more important 4 unmodified files have not been touched as you asked. Just RAW right out of the camera, a 1st pass JPEG from LR, 2nd pass JPEG from PS and a final JPEG by LR. Just need your email to share them with you through Dropbox now. Thanks again so much.

Matt

Ironheart

@kanuck I sent you a PM. Do you mind me reposting some of the files publicly so we can get more than one person looking at them? If so, that's fine too, we'll just share them individually.

kanuck

No problem post away! I just took a shot of my Lonely Planet Tibet guide book because it has some nice "reds" on the cover which is the biggest problem I have found when viewing my files on other computers. I sent 2 separate folders titled processed and unprocessed. The processed are done using my usual workflow and the unprocessed are what you asked for above. The processed ones look nice and snappy with nice reds on my new computer, but as usual look like garbage everywhere else including your computer I suspect.

kanuck

Also, I forgot to mention that the color space set on my D810 is sRGB and not Adobe also...

PB_PM

RAW files don't care what the in camera colour space is set to (unless you use Nikon software), so don't worry about it.

kanuck

Excellent to know thanks!

kanuck

My Spyder 5 Pro just arrived by EMS. I still think it is a color profile problem. Calibrating my monitor right now...

Okay my monitor was off after looking at the Spyder 5 Pro results it was too bright, too much hue so skin tones were a bit too rosy, with the changes they look a little less bright and a bit more green overall. Spyder 5 looks to be an excellent addition. I like the new calibration, but I am certain there is a problem occurring somewhere in the chain of image processing as Ironheart has suggested above..

ericktessier

Good to know.
The first test should be to post-process a new picture and see if you still have your ugly results on other screens.

Ironheart

I've posted @kanuck 's files here, the first one is what he called "modified" which I think assumes his normal workflow, the colors are a bit more punched up. The is the "final" pass through lightroom after a first pass through LR and a second through PS. It looks fine on my screens, looks about the same on all of them:


This one has gone through the same process LR->PS->LR but he calls "unmodified" which has less color punch. This also looks the same (less saturated) on all of my devices:


I've also combed through the metadata, and I can't see any difference between these files from a colorspace perspective. They are all sRGB, no other profiles present.

Curious to know what other folks see on their monitors vs. phone vs. tablet

To summarize, what I see is the top image is about a normal range of saturation, the bottom image is a bit more saturated. They look the same on laptop, screen, phone.