• donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,515Member
    Civility should always be highly valued.
  • TriShooterTriShooter Posts: 219Member
    KnockKnock, that is a great compliment to all of the members in this forum. Thank you.

    I like Nikon Rumors too. I've found the people in this forum like equipment as much as me, and really want to be best photographers they can become on an ongoing basis. They tend to be hyper-critical of equipment and of themselves.

    Perhaps this is what makes good photographers better photographers. They are less sensitive about criticism, and opposing points of view, than many other forums. It may be that people who like to push the envelope know first hand what failure looks like, how it feels, and that life does not end when they are wrong. Therefore, as a group, are probably less prone to feeling personally threatened when off track, or when they disagree.
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,515Member
    The ability to hear criticism, whether valid or not, without attacking back is one of the signs of a high-class self-confident person. People who attack too quickly and too harshly are often revealing inner doubt and low self-esteem so they feel a need to "smash" any other person who disagrees with them because that other person is perceived as a threat to the validity of the positions they have taken and to their self-esteem in knowing what is right. Civility is easier when your self-esteem doesn't feel threatened by everyone who expresses a contrary opinion. Simply discuss the merits of any proposition or opinion posted on NR without any snide comments or personal attacks or name-calling. If you are correct on the merits just stating those merits is enough to present your argument. Personal attacks and name calling simply weaken your position. I leave forums which have too many members expressing negative comments about other members or calling some postings "idiotic" and things like that.

    Abraham Lincoln was once asked why he didn't speak up more in public and take stronger more emotional positions when he did speak in public. The person asking Lincoln told him that people may think he is a fool if he doesn't stand up and express strong opinions more frequently. Lincoln responded "I would rather people think I may be a fool than stand up, take strong unconsidered positions, and prove their suspicions correct." Of course. that is not a real quote, just a story told in many different ways. I just put the quotation marks in to identify the words attributed to Lincoln in this undocumented story. The people on forums who are so quick to take strong positions and call others fools may just be proving that they are one.

    We all should be here to learn about the newest Nikon equipment, discuss technical issues, and learn from each other. We can learn no matter what level we are at now and there is nothing wrong with being at the lowest level. Everyone starts at the lowest level, even the masters. People who say foolish things should be gently corrected.
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,545Moderator
    Er, we are a little of track here folks - the thread is supposed to be about the D7100.

    Just saying is all...
    Always learning.
  • BrainBeatBrainBeat Posts: 54Member
    Well I have now taken the plunge and just bought a D7100 and have been playing around with it for the last half hour or so until the battery has mostly flattened. I with a bit of negotiation managed to get a very good price too ($1539) which while still a lot more expensive than the USA is around the UK equivalent price. I must say it is very different to my D5000 with a lot more buttons that do things directly now (I knew this but it is a bit to learn now). I have mostly been taking photos with my sigma 17-50 f2.8 @ 2.8 it seems to be focusing a lot better than my D5000 ever did and does not seem to have the back focusing issue. I am as yet not sure if it is spot on but it is certainly a lot closer and will need a minor adjustment at worst which is something I could not do before too.

    I would say the high iso performance is very nice (compared to what I had) and I am sure I will happily be able to use 6400 if I need to. The focus system seems a bit more reliable than my D5000 too but still seems to search a bit some times especially when I was trying to get the closest leaf amongst a tree full. The pics also look super sharp which is probably not a great thing for me as it seems to show the wrinkles a lot more.

    I will have to play around more but I am sure I will be happy that I have gotten it.
  • PhotobugPhotobug Posts: 5,751Member
    Last night I read several comments on the B&H Photo and Adorama web site on the D7100. One owner returned his D7100 due to specs on the sensor. Nikon needs to get to the root cause of this problem and eliminate the dust or oil issues. What so many manufactures do is put a temporary fix and not solve the real root cause. As a Nikon owner since 1968 I wish they would kick the QA department in the stomach otherwise these quality control issues will continue to grow.
    D750 & D7100 | 24-70 F2.8 G AF-S ED, 70-200 F2.8 AF VR, TC-14E III, TC-1.7EII, 35 F2 AF D, 50mm F1.8G, 105mm G AF-S VR | Backup & Wife's Gear: D5500 & Sony HX50V | 18-140 AF-S ED VR DX, 55-300 AF-S G VR DX |
    |SB-800, Amaran Halo LED Ring light | MB-D16 grip| Gitzo GT3541 + RRS BH-55LR, Gitzo GM2942 + Sirui L-10 | RRS gear | Lowepro, ThinkTank, & Hoodman gear | BosStrap | Vello Freewave Plus wireless Remote, Leica Lens Cleaning Cloth |
  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,185Member
    Er, we are a little of track here folks - the thread is supposed to be about the D7100.

    Just saying is all...
    You are such a whining idiot for saying that ! ;-)

    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • adamzadamz Posts: 842Moderator
    guys, please stay on the D7100 topic and don't meander too far from it.
    @hearty - I know You love spray but didn't realised the love is so huge ;)
  • BrainBeatBrainBeat Posts: 54Member
    One owner returned his D7100 due to specs on the sensor. Nikon needs to get to the root cause of this problem and eliminate the dust or oil issues.
    As far as I can tell my sensor is clean and I would think the majority are actually free from this problem. There is always a good chance there will be a few problems and or the specs could have come when he added a lens for example but I doubt it is as wide a problem as the 600. Not to say there are probably not some minor (or worse) problems with the 7100 just that I would not call maybe 3 cases so far a big issue.
  • tc88tc88 Posts: 537Member
    edited March 2013
    BrainBeat, did you cycle through the AF points (in single point mode), especially comparing the in focus range when using an AF point at far left and the in focus range when using an AF point at far right? You want to use as fast an aperture as possible at the wide end, say around 30mm. Do you see shift in the in focus range? For simplicity, you can just put a long ruler on the floor, pick a value to AF and shoot from one end. Thanks.
    Post edited by tc88 on
  • BrucePhotographyBrucePhotography Posts: 40Member
    I just received my D7100 and I've been shooting all day in Raw. I had read in NR on 3/14 that Adobe Labs had an RC that handled raw. When I brought up Bridge, all my raw files were not available but they are in the new NX. Any word when Camera Raw for CS6 will be able to handle the new NEF files? I'm not much into ViewNX.
  • QuintonHurstQuintonHurst Posts: 24Member
    edited March 2013
    I just got my Nikon D7100 in today and I have to say I am quite pleased. I see no back-focusing issues as I did with BOTH of my previous D7000s. I'm assuming this is all thanks to the Multi-CAM 3500DX AF Sensor Module versus the Multi-CAM 4800DX AF Sensor Module that was present in the D7000.

    Some things I have noticed so far...

    #1. Fn, Preview, and AE-L/AF-L Button Functions. There is now an option for a couple more things to be controlled when you use press the Fn button, Preview button, or AE-L/AF-L button. These functions require the command dials for adjusting.
    These options include:
    Choose image area (Switch between DX or 1.3 crop mode)
    1 step speed/aperture (Change shutter speed and aperture in one stop increments)
    Choose non-CPU lens number
    Active D-Lighting (Switch through the various modes of Active D-Lighting = Auto, Extra High, High, Normal, Low, and Off)
    HDR [Switch between HDR modes of On (series), On (single photo), and Off]

    Note that choosing one of these options for either button will result in the normal one push function being disabled. You can either have the button do something like you could on previous models or have it do something that can be modified with command dials. Not both.

    #2. Ergonomics. Compared to the D7000, the D7100 feels much better in hand(s) ergonomics-wise but also feels more plastic-like than the D7000. I think the texture on the camera is not as prominent and so it feels smoother thus the body feeling more plastic-like than the D7000.

    The multiselector dial thing sticks out more than the D7000's, is a bit smaller in diameter, and has more play in it. All of this makes navigating much quicker although I am a little unsure of the durability as of right now.

    The On/Off/LCD Illumination switch is better. It clicks into position and doesn't stay in between positions as the D7000 did.

    Gone is the chrome shutter button. I think I will miss that actually. :(

    #3. FPS. As stated in spec sheets, the FPS is indeed 6fps at full resolution RAW and it's about 1fps after the first 6 shots. So yes, it's slower than the D7000 and it IS noticeable. Something to take note of for those who use burst mode a lot (sports, wildlife, and action photographers). It's much faster with the JPEG Fine setting though (feels faster than the D7000 in JPEG Fine). In the 1.3x crop mode it is 7fps and is also about 1fps after the initial 7 pictures. JPEG Fine in 1.3x crop mode (which is ~15mp) is so fast I could not keep up with it really. It burst off 20 pictures or so then paused one second and started going at about 3-4fps. The memory cards I used were SanDisk Extreme 32GB SD cards.

    #4. Exposure Compensation for Flash. There is now an option to adjust flash level and exposure compensation together so as to change the exposure of the entire frame and there option is to just apply exposure compensation which will change the exposure of the background.

    To see various pictures of the camera, menus, and etc. you can go here... (Let me know if this link doesn't work)
    I'll add more pictures as I get the time too.

    Any questions? I'll try to find out or try anything you all want me to when I can. :)
    Post edited by QuintonHurst on
  • BrainBeatBrainBeat Posts: 54Member
    BrainBeat, did you cycle through the AF points (in single point mode), especially comparing the in focus range when using an AF point at far left and the in focus range when using an AF point at far right?
    I have not yet but will see if I have time to do it some time later today. I will have to see if my lens is focusing correctly at all too at f2.8 too but so far it looks about perfect compared to my D5000 as I said before. Even if there is a slight far left point issue I can't see it will but all that bad or a problem as it is probably the least used point anyway.

  • tc88tc88 Posts: 537Member
    BrainBeat, thanks and keep us posted. The part I'm interested most is the difference of the in focus ranges between far left and far right AF points. The absolute range you can shift somewhat using the AF fine tune. But the difference you can't do anything about it.
  • BrainBeatBrainBeat Posts: 54Member
    edited March 2013
    I have done some quick test taking a photo of a brick wall outside my house using the 3 points and so far I am not sure of my findings. So far I was say both left and right seem to give a softer image compared to the centre with maybe the right just a fraction sharper of the 2. I can't be fully certain if this is a problem yet with the camera or the lens or my technique but will do some more testing. As the wall is not perfectly smooth and I am hand holding I would take my preliminary results as that. I will get my tripod and see if that changes things as well as maybe finding a flatter wall as both the left and right images have been focused on the brick spacing which is indented slightly.

    Update1: I put my camera on a tripod now and that does not seem to have made a huge difference to the photos results. my clearest test so far is to take some photos of the back rest of my couch which has various patterns on it with the threads showing up well making it easier to tell if things are in focus. It would see so far my preliminary results show the same that both the far left and right are both significantly softer in focus all over the photos with the right side about half as soft as the left.

    As I said before I am still not totally sure this will be a huge issue as I would not think I would use either extremes all that often. It may also be caused by my lens as I am wondering if the edges may be a bit softer and so cause the focus to go out.
    Post edited by BrainBeat on
  • PapermanPaperman Posts: 469Member
    I started suspecting that ALL previous Nikon cameras had AF issues but we just never noticed it as they were never so meticilously tested. Is this as good as the Nikon AF gets ?

    Really, if there is really again an issue with a new release ( as some tests started showing up indicating it ) , what are we going to be thinking about Nikon ? ( I feel I am stuck with my D300 for a long while :-) )
  • JJ_SOJJ_SO Posts: 1,158Member
    edited March 2013
    @tc88 Since you asked brainbeat, I better don't tell you that the left side again is out of focus when using normal AF. Left side appears to be the weak spot of Nikon? This is different to the D7000 AF. Mine does left and right side equally bring out of focus :) And of course I will delete some thousands of pictures right now. And switch over to Canon. And never ever use the word Nikon again. We have found an ISSUE, yippiekayeah, after less than 10 days.

    Please note: First sentence was meant seriously, the rest was written with a smile. :)

    Edit: Serious again: Bad thing is, it's leans dependant. To my surprise it was worst with the Sigma 35 (and clearly visible) and in my eyes more or less okay with 50/1.4 and a tiny bit less okay with 24/1.4. At the moment, I don't have the 85/1.4. To tell exactly I would have to test with LiveView to compare how bad it is.

    But then: If I know, I can work aground. And before the big "issue! issue!" bell is rang, check carefully at older cams, if these were always well adjusted before someone noticed the AF module's preference for middle and right AF. To me it doesn't matter so much, in Portrait mode I use the right side up, but to my colleague this might be bad news, he's left eye shooter and therefore turns the cam clockwise what brings the less good AF point up
    Post edited by JJ_SO on
  • KnockKnockKnockKnock Posts: 398Member
    I peeped the sample images at Imaging Resource tonight - just comparing the D7100 at 6400 NR3 to the D600 at 12800 NR3. VERY close. The D7100 showed a little less noise. The D600 showed slightly better saturation and shadow. Super subtle to my eyes though. + here, - there. Feels like the D600 has a 1-stop advantage at the high end of usable ISO.

    Maybe if I find time I'll try lower ISOs. Maybe I'll just wait for the real reviews by pro peepers to come out :-P
    D7100, D60, 35mm f/1.8 DX, 50mm f/1.4, 18-105mm DX, 18-55mm VR II, Sony RX-100 ii
  • tc88tc88 Posts: 537Member
    edited March 2013
    BrainBeat, what you reported does not surprise me at all. But I will let you do some more testing first. What you need is something that have textures at different distances. I still think a long ruler is best. But you can use a wall by taking pictures from the side so that you aim at one location, and from the picture you can tell the part of the wall that's really in focus is closer or further away from where you aimed. I think the most critical part is if you aim left and right AF points at same place, whether the in focus regions differ.

    Paperman, I believe what you say may be correct, though I tested all my DSLR, and my oldest D60 has the best AF accuracy. Maybe we took it for granted before, and Nikon then took us for granted.

    JJ_SO, have you thought about the possibility that I have tested D7100 myself? If you want to give me your honest assessment on the AF points, (especially with 35mm f/1.4, you can do a lot of testing and you know what I'm looking for from the postings above), I appreciate it. Otherwise, please don't bother joking around since I can't really tell what you are saying.
    Post edited by tc88 on
  • BrainBeatBrainBeat Posts: 54Member
    Since JJ_SO brought it up I wonder if this could be a sigma thing at least partly as the lens I was testing on was my Sigma 17-50 2.8. 2 testers I still think is not a big enough data set to make any big conclusions but it does seem to be something to keep and eye on. I probably should try out my D5000 and see what that looks like. I do also wonder if the problem is more noticeable due to the camera both having double the resolution of my old camera and as it does not have the OLPF the images are even sharper and so there is more of a difference.
  • JJ_SOJJ_SO Posts: 1,158Member
    edited March 2013
    @tc88 The Sigma 35 has become a popular lens in this forum, so I let other step forward, I've to prepare a weekend trip without test shooting. It's good, though, I know I've to be careful with open aperture on the left side with my combination of cam and lens - other probably see different things.
    @BrainBeat, Sigma was famous for decenterred lenses - I don't think the 35 continues that "tradition" but I can't tell. I didn't test all eventualities, this needs to be done carefully and is time consuming. And the results are only valid in special cases. But a zoom at the price of the Sigma 17-50 has other tolerances - which is not saying "worse". And can bring in other variables in a testing.
    Post edited by JJ_SO on
  • tc88tc88 Posts: 537Member
    BrainBeat, from my understanding, AF accuracy doesn't have much to to with the lens, decenterred or not, as long as you can clearly tell an in focus region, or live view gives a good focus. Sometimes if the lens doesn't have a fine motor, it may affect accuracy, but that will jump around and affect your center point as much.

    When the AF sensor sees its target is not in focus, it will send command to the lens to move.

    What's happening is that the distances from the lens to the AF sensor point and the distance to the image sensor are slightly different due to misalignment of either mirror, AF sensor, image sensor or a combination of those. So what the AF point sees is indeed in focus. However, what's focused on the image sensor is at a different target distance, thus you get back or front focus depending on whether the image sensor is further or closer.

    Regarding the right AF points, it has related issues. I will explain later why they may be less obvious. But I don't want to influence people's testing at this moment.
  • BrainBeatBrainBeat Posts: 54Member
    I have just gotten back from my first day event shooting with my 7100 and I would so far have to say I am mostly happy with how it went. As yet I have not seen them properly on a monitor but on camera and on a big LED screen that they showed the pic on in a slideshow for the most part they look very good.

    Things I found in use:
    The auto AF setting seems less reliable at getting faces (it often selected either peoples bodies or the microphones) than my D5000 which is a surprise as the this is meant to have a better AF system.
    Single point and AF-c tracking of moving targets seemed to work fine.
    The AF system is certainly faster than my D5000 as I managed to capture many moments I would never have before
    having 51 point to chose from is great as you can chose which person or part of instead of choosing a rough area as I did with my D5000
    I would say most photos appeared to be fairly sharp a but I can't be certain all were perfectly focused until I see on a monitor (I decided to write this before looking)
    The Auto ISO feature is extremely helpful as I just shot in aperture priority (to control DOF) all day and could just walk around in both full sun and shade and always get well exposed photo's. It may also have used steps between normal iso stops but I am not certain of this yet.
    The on stage photos seem to often be a bit over exposed and often had to stop down up to 1 stop
    Being able to sync the flash at 1/250th is great too as at 1/200 on my D5000 often still had some movement
    I am not sure I noticed the extra weight of the body compared to my D5000 but I am sure it is still a lot lighter than when I have used a D3 with 70-200 2.8 attached ( that is very heavy and I think well over 1kg)
    The crop mode is a cool single lens feature especially for an event like this where the photos were initially to be displayed on a screen unedited. It allowed me to get a bit "closer" to the stage performers while being able to say out of the way. The only thing is I have to remember when it is on to not crop the image when I do not want it to.
    As yet I did not get around to setting up the custom profiles as I was still experimenting but I could see it will be useful once I do.

    I have another job to take tonight so will see how it goes then and may post again if there is anything to report.
  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,398Moderator

    Make certain the camera is set to Auto Area AF for facial recognition. It should find faces easily in this setting. But, we will see if others have the same issue.
    Msmoto, mod
  • BrainBeatBrainBeat Posts: 54Member
    There is a setting for that? and it is not on by default? Looking on my camera I can't seem to see a setting that does that, do you have an idea where I should be looking? Are you meaning the setting that looks like [*] where * is a solid rectangle? If you are then that is the setting I was using which at least in previous cameras is said to focus on the first thing it hits (which has normally been a face) and I guess it seems to be doing just that.

    Anyway I did do another job tonight and about every single photos it still insisted on focusing on peoples bodies over their faces which seemed to make all of the photos slightly soft. They still look fine just not as sharp as I believe they should be. This could also be just I need to change the default sharpening in picture controls.
    One great feature I found extremely useful was the ability to while zoomed in to use the front scroll wheel to jump to each face to check that their eyes where open etc. This is a huge time saver as scrolling around the picture using the navigation is very slow.
    It seems I will need to watch my use of the back wheel especially while viewing a photo as it looks like I changes the shutter speed a few times.

    2 slightly disturbing things that I have had happen today with my body are that the battery cover fell off when I took the battery out just now to charge and a piece of the rubber that butts up against the battery cover was sticking out lucky I could push it back in fine.
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