Ditching current system for the New Nikon Mirrorless?

Carerra911

Hi all,

I am curious to see who already at this early stage think they may sell their current Nikon gear to go with the New Mirrorless camera, I know its early and specs haven't been released yet, but who thinks they pretty much know themselves and will end up doing that?

I own a D850 and honestly, I could be tempted to sell up and get it if it's as good, I really do want a silent camera and this is one of the biggest plus points in going Mirrorless for me,

If there is a chance I can have the camera as a second camera and not have to sell the D850 that would be nice, but let's see,

Whats your thoughts?

Regards

decentrist

I've often thought capitalism was driven by stupidity

WestEndFoto

Nikon may come out with a Native F-mount mirrorless. I would wait and see if they do that.

manhattanboy

Carerra911 said:

I really do want a silent camera and this is one of the biggest plus points in going Mirrorless for me

There are a lot of things general folks don't understand about mirrorless.
Let's start with the "silent camera" notion. There is NOTHING (I repeat NOTHING) that says that the new Nikon mirrorless camera will be silent in operation like the current Sony's. Remember that most all Canon mirrorless cameras are NOT silent. Moreover, all the Sony's when first release were also NOT silent.

The second big thing to consider is that even with a silent mode, there may be terrible rolling shutter. Getting a picture of the bride throwing the bouquet with FF rolling shutter is not going to look great depending on how large the motion is in your frame; thus, you may be forced back to using a mechanical shutter and, again, you are not going to be able to shoot silent.

TLDR: mirrorless is not necessarily silent

mhedges

manhattanboy said:

The second big thing to consider is that even with a silent mode, there may be terrible rolling shutter. Getting a picture of the bride throwing the bouquet with FF rolling shutter is not going to look great depending on how large the motion is in your frame; thus, you may be forced back to using a mechanical shutter and, again, you are not going to be able to shoot silent.

TLDR: mirrorless is not necessarily silent

OK since you brought up rolling shutter - I've been curious about something for a while - aren't mechanical shutters also rolling if the shutter speed is faster than the flash sync value? So why aren't they prone to the same issues?

As far as mirrorless - I'll at least consider it. I'd kind of like to go to full frame someday, and this gives me an excuse. For me a lot depends on how the F mount lens compatibility is, since we aren't likely to get a full set of native mirrorless lenses for several years at least.

rmp

I'm in a new (to me) quandary. In the past, I was an early acceptor. new stuff is on my desk. My closet is filled with last generation stuff. So I expected to switch to the new mirrorless. And I do expect to buy the new generation toys. But, the D850 is so good for image quality, now I'm thinking about keeping it. I will keep the D850, until after I know the new mirrorless produces equal or greater IQ.

CaMeRaQuEsT

I am just now ditching my Ai and Ai-S lenses as I just bought AF and AF-D replacements. Next in line will be a brand spanking new D750 after I ditch my current D600, too. Meanwhile, I'm grabbing M4/3 bargains left and right. 4K, light weight, small size, the perfect complement for my Nikon FX setup. All for a fraction of what the cheapest, new Nikon FF ML "kit" will cost.

HankB

In answer to the OP’s question, as a casual shooter who is rarely in a situation where noise matters, I probably won’t be seduced by Nikon’s 1st generation mirrorless. But I am very enthusiastic for Nikon to pull off this milestone with great success as DSLRs will soon enter an extended period of obsolescence, and Nikon’s survival is dependent on its mirrorless sucess.

And then there are other trade-in issues and questions:

• I DO WANT: pop-up flash, GPS, glitch-free wireless file transfer capability, some other toys and features I haven't thought about yet.
  
• I DON'T WANT: Nikon's pro memory bank crap.
  

[Deleted User]

If image quality improves somewhat with a more 3-d rendering and overall sharper optics, then yes this would be of interest. I am quessing the 45mp sensor will be the same as the d850. Will know in 10 days i would imagine.

The breaking specs show short and normal range lenses. So I am quessing the longer end would at least initially be via an F mount adaptor using F mount teles and zooms which makes sense given ray angle issues with shorter FLs. Lighter, silent cameras are welcome provided they are resistent to abuse as are the d8... Series. The nikon noct with accurate AF could be a real winner, perhaps overtaking the 105f1.4 as a portrait lens. This lens might entice Leica Noct users who want AF. This should be interesting.

Flip

CaMeRaQuEsT

manhattanboy said:

Carerra911 said:

I really do want a silent camera and this is one of the biggest plus points in going Mirrorless for me

There are a lot of things general folks don't understand about mirrorless.
Let's start with the "silent camera" notion. There is NOTHING (I repeat NOTHING) that says that the new Nikon mirrorless camera will be silent in operation like the current Sony's. Remember that most all Canon mirrorless cameras are NOT silent. Moreover, all the Sony's when first release were also NOT silent.

The second big thing to consider is that even with a silent mode, there may be terrible rolling shutter. Getting a picture of the bride throwing the bouquet with FF rolling shutter is not going to look great depending on how large the motion is in your frame; thus, you may be forced back to using a mechanical shutter and, again, you are not going to be able to shoot silent.

TLDR: mirrorless is not necessarily silent

Add a third one: E-rolling shutters, even the current best ones (A9), can't freeze LED flicker, and we are very close to 100% LED penetration, for example it's the law in China.

PB_PM

mhedges said:

OK since you brought up rolling shutter - I've been curious about something for a while - aren't mechanical shutters also rolling if the shutter speed is faster than the flash sync value? So why aren't they prone to the same issues?

Short answer is that it does, but not the same way, nor is it as visible as long as you don’t go too far beyond the sync speed.

Long answer. Rolling shutter occurs because most modern CMOS sensors read one, or a set number of pixel lines, at a time, unlike the older CCD tech which would read the entire senor all at once (thus enabling faster flash sync speeds like some Nikon’s that synced to 1/600s). At the time (mid 2000s) the problem was that CCD created more noise due to having to read out the entire sensor all at once, so manufactures switched to CMOS to get around that problem. The switch introduced some rolling shutter problems, so there were pluses and minuses. Some newer cameras have CMOS sensors than can be scanned at at once, but they are not mainstream yet.

The flash bulb (be it conventional or LED) lights up all at once, for a set amount of time. Beyond the flash sync speed the camera shutter (be it electronic or mechanical) is opening and closing faster than the flash can reach full power across the entire light source, thus you can end up with dark sections (I suppose you could call it rolling) when using speeds faster than a sync speed.

Pistnbroke

This is a great video about the 7 disadvantages of mirrorless ( ignore the hammer)

Capt_Spaulding

The idea of an f0.95 lens is mind bending.

WestEndFoto

Why? Just buy Nikon’s newest 105 and the DOF is shallower?

OK, I do see your point, but I wonder what the practical use is. I would rather spend the inevitable premium on IQ and go longer if I need more DOF.

manhattanboy

WestEndFoto said:

Nikon may come out with a Native F-mount mirrorless. I would wait and see if they do that.

Nikon has already committed to their new "Z" mount. Why on earth would they release a native F-mount mirrorless camera when they would try to get the Nikon faithful to spend thousands of unnecessary dollars to update all of their lenses to the new Z mount?

The only player that I think might release a native mount mirrorless camera is Canon. It makes picking off Nikon faithful easy for them... choices for the Nikon faithful are to use an adapter that doesn't give you all the benefits of mirrorless or just abandon Nikon and use a native mount Canon mirrorless camera with support for all of Canon's lenses. At this stage that is Canon's best play as Sony is ahead of everyone as far as technology. From a marketing perspective I would think it would look like this:

Canon mirrorless EF Mount: Competitive advantage #1 = Largest selection of lenses available ; Competitive advantage #2 = easy upgrade from existing DSLRs, just replace with a mirrorless body and that's it.

Sony mirrorless FE Mount: Competitive advantage #1 = Best technology with stacked sensors and fast PD on chip AF; Competitive advantage #2 = largest breath of types of mirrorless with bodies specialized for action, detail, low light, etc.

Nikon mirrorless Z mount-> Competitive advantage #1 = Nikon ergonomics???; Competitive advantage #2 = only system that can take old F mount glass??

HankB

One thing for sure, Canon has an advantage over Nikon in that their newer, wider, all electronic, current DSLR mount requires only the simplest, lightest, cheapest of extension tube-like adapters for a new mirrorless mount.

And alternatively, Canons current DSLR mount could itself be carried over to mirrorless, if Canon so chooses to retain its DSLR mount, with the only downside being the mirrorless bodies would need a dead space where the mirror box would have been.

Nikon is in that superior position (needing only a super simple extension tube-like adapter) only with respect to the few E and P lenses that are out there.

WestEndFoto

Mannhattanboy, if the mirrorless format has certain advantages over a DSLR (full frame focussing perhaps) then Nikon may want their f-mount customers to avail themselves of those advantages. Unless you think Nikon is abandoning the f-mount??

HankB

If the 58mm f/0.95 rumor is true, a new larger diameter mount is necessary.

snakebunk

I consider DSLRs and the F mount to be dated technology. But when to switch and to what system is for me an open question. I think we will see real good competition between the brands and I think it is wise to take it easy and see what happens.

PB_PM

Agreed, it's way to soon to see which brands will survive this transition.

MunchmaQuchi

I could see having the Z7 in my carry bag and using it for critical focus of manual lenses while the D850 stays for AF of legacy f-mount lenses. I do not envision buying the new Nikon lenses in almost any case.

thoughtloop

What if Nikon makes a new dSLR, d6 or d900 with the new mount?

PB_PM

Considering physical differences between the F-mount and the new mount that seems very unlikely. Lenses for the new system simply wouldn't work with a DSLR.

mhedges

My tentative plan is to make the switch. Assuming the camera is good, of course. It brings me up to full frame and has several other advantages for me.

[Deleted User]

Looking at the roadmap what's missing are lenses i use regularly: 28 f1.8, 24 f1.4 (found a good copy), 105 micro, 60 micro, and t/s lenses. I stand corrected that the noct is AF, it's not.
So, at best I will not be an early adopter. For me it's more about the optics than the camera. Interesting that there are no 1.4 lenses in the mix. On the counter, the diffraction correction S/W if for RAW might be extremely useful. It could emininate a need for t/s lenses which are wholly outdated and need optical reengineering (except for the 19mm).

ggbutcher

Sooooo... maybe. I've perennially considered moving to FF and the D750, and the Z6 is compelling in that regard. I do believe the new mount will be the game changer, even if the initial cameras hit the skids. 'Course, I could just scarf one of the deeply discounted D750s, that's the way I bought my D7000. But I don't think they'll make a Z adapter for the F cameras; the Z lenses will eventually be the thing. And the 24-70/4 would do me okay for a bit.

Regarding the single card, not a big deal for me. Now, I do redundancy engineering in my day job, and I'm fully on the side of folk for whom capturing the moment is important. The whole camera is just one collection of fault trees waiting to bite you in the ass, but some particular redundancy on recording media is important if you've got a group portrait to shoot and not all of the subjects are cooperating at the same time and you finally see the moment through the viewfinder where they're all exhibiting some semblance of a smile...