Ditching current system for the New Nikon Mirrorless?

DaveyJ

Right now I’d keep my D850. Considering a Z6 and 24-70 but hardly think it will replace the D850! Nobody who has shot one and owns the D850 thinks so. The newest is not always the best. When I get the Z6 and zoom lens it will be as an experiment!

rmp

The more I read the better I like the Z cameras/lenses. Focus on the sensor means no more auto-focus fine tune and that means sharper focus. Z lenses have better MTF curves and that (probably) means sharper focus. In-camera stabilization probably means less shake and that probably means sharper focus.

Now, I know you pros with great technique and steady hands may not benefit from the new technology, but I am beginning to believe an old fool like me will see some IQ improvements.

BVS

I think for AF stills shooting the D5/D850/D500 is probably still the best.

For manual focus stills shooting the Z6/7 is probably better with the various focus assist features.

For video shooting the Z6/7 is probably by far the better choice.

Right tool for the job and all that.

PB_PM

BVS said:

I think for AF stills shooting the D5/D850/D500 is probably still the best.

Depends on what you mean by that. For static subjects mirrorless cameras have much more accurate focus, and are very quick. For moving subjects I doubt the Z6/Z7 will even come close to having the keeper rate of modern high end DSLRs. Will they get some? Yes. Would I trade a D5 for sport and action shooting for a Z6/Z7, not a chance.

rmp

I believe, on paper, the Z and it's lenses have a chance at producing higher quality images than the older DSLRs. But, that is on paper. How those paper specifications are actually implemented will tell the actual story.

MikeGunter

DaveyJ said:

Right now I’d keep my D850. Considering a Z6 and 24-70 but hardly think it will replace the D850! Nobody who has shot one and owns the D850 thinks so. The newest is not always the best. When I get the Z6 and zoom lens it will be as an experiment!

Hi all,

I agree - but there are those who haven't stepped up to the D850 and likely look seriously at the "Z". I already moved to M4/3ds and D750 and don't use the D 750 as much - frankly, I've retired, or I keep trying to.

On the table is this, the specifications have to be better than the Sony's FF. After all, that is the touchstone, eh? If not, why not get a Sony? It sort of needs to be as good or better than most of the Nikons on the market too, that's a big gulp, brethren, but again, it must have a raison d'etre, n'est-ce pas? Or the whole thing is just a lint catcher.

It also has to perform to those specs, too. Some of us who have been around the block have earned our scars righteously. We'll be waiting anxiously for the reports. I hope they are all great; there is some tough competition. Nikon's gamble is on the "Z" mount, the "F" adapter, and the consumer's "bag-o-lenses". I'm in that last bit of the equation, and I'm even wondering if that is the selling point - and I don't mean to be provocative. Of the many lenses I have, only a gaggle are really good. It might be worth it to start over. And I do realize that at my age and means, it would be easier for me to do than some others. The single point being, accommodating for an 'F' lens mount may have hamstrung the camera.

To add grist to the mills. Panasonic may introduce a FF at Photokina this month, too. Zero is known if and what it will be, but they have 10 years of know how.

The advantages of shooting mirrorless are huge. In M4/3ds, I use G85, it is a what-you-see-is-what-you-get world via the menu for DOF, exposure, etc. I have a flash setup for high-speed synch to 1/4000, with 5 speedlights, 6 stop IBIS that works in conjunction with lenses to handheld sharp images at 1/20 for mid telephotos shots. With the EVF at my eye, I can my slide my thumb over the touch sceen to focus on a point very easily. Panasonic has ten years of experience in mirrorless.

These are some of the 'conditions' Nikon needs to face.

mhedges

MikeGunter said:

DaveyJ said:

Right now I’d keep my D850. Considering a Z6 and 24-70 but hardly think it will replace the D850! Nobody who has shot one and owns the D850 thinks so. The newest is not always the best. When I get the Z6 and zoom lens it will be as an experiment!

Hi all,

I agree - but there are those who haven't stepped up to the D850 and likely look seriously at the "Z". I already moved to M4/3ds and D750 and don't use the D 750 as much - frankly, I've retired, or I keep trying to.

On the table is this, the specifications have to be better than the Sony's FF. After all, that is the touchstone, eh? If not, why not get a Sony? It sort of needs to be as good or better than most of the Nikons on the market too, that's a big gulp, brethren, but again, it must have a raison d'etre, n'est-ce pas? Or the whole thing is just a lint catcher.

It also has to perform to those specs, too. Some of us who have been around the block have earned our scars righteously. We'll be waiting anxiously for the reports. I hope they are all great; there is some tough competition. Nikon's gamble is on the "Z" mount, the "F" adapter, and the consumer's "bag-o-lenses". I'm in that last bit of the equation, and I'm even wondering if that is the selling point - and I don't mean to be provocative. Of the many lenses I have, only a gaggle are really good. It might be worth it to start over. And I do realize that at my age and means, it would be easier for me to do than some others. The single point being, accommodating for an 'F' lens mount may have hamstrung the camera.

To add grist to the mills. Panasonic may introduce a FF at Photokina this month, too. Zero is known if and what it will be, but they have 10 years of know how.

The advantages of shooting mirrorless are huge. In M4/3ds, I use G85, it is a what-you-see-is-what-you-get world via the menu for DOF, exposure, etc. I have a flash setup for high-speed synch to 1/4000, with 5 speedlights, 6 stop IBIS that works in conjunction with lenses to handheld sharp images at 1/20 for mid telephotos shots. With the EVF at my eye, I can my slide my thumb over the touch sceen to focus on a point very easily. Panasonic has ten years of experience in mirrorless.

These are some of the 'conditions' Nikon needs to face.

That's my situation - I want to move to FF and figured Z6 was a good way to do that. Agree if I had a D850 I wouldn't be in any hurry to switch.

For outperforming Sony - Honestly as long as the Z6 is at least competitive (which all indications are is the case) I'm happy. I like the Nikon ergonomics and colors and would lose all that switching to Sony.

Not sure what you mean by hamstringing the camera. If you mean it would have been a problem to do a F mount mirrorless I totally agree. I don't see any way that the Z cameras have been hindered by having the ability to use F glass, and I think they had to have that in order to succeed.

The Panasonic is kind of a mystery. What lenses will it use? How will Panny's m43 base feel about it? And how big do these companies thing the market is? I don't see it supporting 4 systems. At least, not well.

MikeGunter

Hi,

I couldn't have been more confusing about 'hamstringing'...

What I meant is that Nikon is reverse engineering the mount to accommodate the F-Mount. And, yes I understand that everyone, possibly me too, would scream if they didn't.

The other side of that is this, by ignoring that, and designing the best FF camera, they could concentrate on that, then make a mount for that, not accounting for autofocus nor autoexposure perhaps, or doing that via some other magic.

Nikon lenses for the Z likely need to be made for the Z. That's a painful ouch. At some point, those of us have to realize all that glass in the bag has to go.

I have a lot, more than the average I suspect, and it would be a lot more if it weren't for some robberies in the decades of the 70's, 90's, and 00' home and on assignments. Starting from scratch would likely have cut weight and size.

Instead, we have legacy glass. Many will certainly see that as a boon. I don't. As other camera makers increase their mirrorless wares and lenses, they will make some much more balanced camera/lens units that are much lighter that produce the same results. Likely, if history repeats itself, they will be cheaper.

Can you guess which cameras the market will buy?

bland

Thanks for posting that video. It answered some questions I had and also informed myself on some things I hadn't thought of. I'm going to wait to see how the Zs review once they're out.

manhattanboy

"Nikon mirrorless Z mount-> Competitive advantage #1 = Nikon ergonomics???; Competitive advantage #2 = only system that can take old F mount glass?? "

So now that we are post announcement, we have the answer: Nikon's competitive advantage = Image Quality.

They are expecting that IQ will drive the system as it will be better than anyone (e.g. Sony, Canon, etc.). From my perspective, it is actually very enticing and I might pick up a used Z7 next spring when the prices come down some to better match the camera's intrinsic value. I know enough how to shoot to overcome rolling shutter, but for sure this will not be a camera to use for action of any kind, at least in silent mode.

@MikeGunter If I were you I would wait for Panny's announcement. That camera sounds sick as they are expecting ~50MP with a global shutter and whole sensor 4K video at 60P with 10 bit internal recording. Frankly those specs are amazing, and to think they can do all of that for a *cheaper* price than the Z7 is shocking! Maybe you can get some used SL lenses to use on it. It is also rumored to be able to use your existing 43rds lenses with an adapter.

MikeGunter

Hi all,

At post announcement(s) - we have some informed-ish speculations. ;-)

Personally, I'd like to see some owner/user reports from a day-to-day perspective usage of the cameras before making any kind of judgments. I really did mean that the Z with the bigger lenses 'looked' clumsy. I don't have clue what they are going to 'feel' like when I hold one.

One more point about mirrorless and Nikon glass. I think what you meant to say is, 'The Z cameras can take the F mount Nikon glass with Autofocus and Autoexposure.' A big advantage of mirrorless cameras that they can, with adapters, utilize practically any lens already focusing with the EVF and normally with peak focusing (I use some of my Nikon lenses with my Panasonic cameras).

So little is known about the Panasonic. It may not even be a stills camera. The 4/3d's lens adapter thing might be wishful thinking or be using only 4/3d's of the sensor (much like how an FF Nikon body uses a DX's lens when attached, only capturing the DX resolution - really not worth the effort).

It does make the whole thing compatible, but it would be a real pain to MFT images on an FF body - think about having a D850 and shooting with an 18-105mm DX lens... It would work just fine, but not much better than shooting with a D3400, just a lot heavier.

manhattanboy

MikeGunter said:

The 4/3d's lens adapter thing might be wishful thinking or be using only 4/3d's of the sensor (much like how an FF Nikon body uses a DX's lens when attached, only capturing the DX resolution - really not worth the effort).

It does make the whole thing compatible, but it would be a real pain to MFT images on an FF body - think about having a D850 and shooting with an 18-105mm DX lens... It would work just fine, but not much better than shooting with a D3400, just a lot heavier.

I disagree a little here. Many times I will shoot the D500 in crop mode, which is basically a m43's view. Depending on how they implement the viewfinder in crop mode, it actually could be very useful. Remember some full frame mirrorless cameras already shoot video with a greater crop than a DX frame (i.e. smaller than a DX image), and it seems to be useful enough to be offered as a feature on those cameras. Alternatively, they could offer a speed reducer (the opposite of a speed booster), where they could have an adapter that spreads the light out to a larger portion of the sensor. Not sure it would be good, but it is a possibility rather than shooting in m43 crop mode.

MikeGunter

Hi manhattanboy,

I'm sure there is something there, but I'm too ignorant to see it.

In using my D750, I have used a DX lens or two now and then and it did crop to DX like it was supposed to do. It would be nice to have magical FX images from DX lenses, but that's not the way that works for me.

That's what I was saying about the M4/3ds lenses - it doesn't seem reasonable that they will stretch out the image over two times the size of the sensor for the full frame - although there is Internet chatter that there may be such a thing (and chatter is most likely just that )

Conversely, if the adapter were small, tidy and fully compatible with all lenses and features of the system(s) and worked terrifically well (boy that's a lot), it might make sense to sell micro 4/3 bodies, keep lenses, and transition to a Panasonic system.