Wait for Z8 or switch to A7R4

innocent_pigeon

Good morning,

I searched the threads and didn't find any suitable for my question, but please correct my if I made a mistake!

I'm a Nikon guy, love the menue, handling, lenses and the IQ. But after Sony released their A7R4 I can't wait for such a camera from Nikon. The last news about a Z8 /Hi-MP camera from Nikon is from september.
I'm new in the photo-community and don't know, when the manufacturers present their gear. A9 and Z50 weren't at big events, just a press release or so.
So any guesses when the Z8 will be released? I need a camera, everywhere I go, I see great motives.
I'm considering 1. renting a A7R4, but it's expensive and I get no money back when I buy Nikon.
2. renting the A7R4, buy a new one, when I saved enough money and get 50% rebate on the rent price (from gearflix.com).
Or 3. buy a cheap APS-C camera and sell it again when I got the Z8 (or how it will be called).

The, IMO, mind-boggling AF (I was kinda shocked, the first time I used the AF) from Sony can spoil the bad handling, the bad software and the, IMO, cheap feeling of camera and lenses.


I'm tending to option 2. Any tips from you?

Greetings from germany
Daniel

WestEndFoto

If you are shooting any brand, be it Sony, Canon or Nikon, I would not switch brands for a camera. What are you shooting now in terms of bodies and lenses?

mhedges

I think we need to know a little more about what kind of photography you do. Landscape? Fashion? Action?

donaldejose

I think the NIkon body you want will be released in 2020. Who immediate is your need? Can you wait six to eight months?

snakebunk

Like WestEndFoto I wouldn't worry too much about a single camera. But if you like Sony cameras in general I think the E mount is a good choice for the future. You will have access to many great lenses from Sony, Sigma, Tamron and others. If you want to be on the Z mount you should wait or buy a Z7. The Z mount is a smaller system but I understand that the lenses are very good.

Ton14

Last Friday there was a small event at Calumet, here in Rotterdam. All professionals always come to this twice a year to see the new things. All major brands were there. What I only heard was that they did not switch to another brand because they already had invested so much in a brand and had a well-functioning workflow for that.

Another big reason was, that nobody wanted to spend time learning new systems. Some had tried Sony, but were stopped quick by the menu system alone.

innocent_pigeon

Hi,
thanks for your answers!

My main motives are animals (in town parks, like pigeons, ducks or geese), trains/cars/machines and landscapes. And I love to zoom in my pictures and look at every detail of the feathers or mechanics. So MP rules for me.
I even considered a GFX100, but till I can afford this, there will be a GFX 200 :P
And I really don't want a Canon camera. A S1R is out of view, because I almost always shoot in AF-C and the DFD-wobbling is inacceptable for me. I will try it again in a camera store, but I don't think it changes my mind.

@donaldejose I think I can't wait 6 or 8 months and the AF won't be as good as Sony's.
And I want to shoot in near future! Especially in winter with trains blowing snow from the tracks or fluffed up birds.

@snakebunk TBH, this is a big point. Tamron and Sigma are getting better and better but the price difference is still huge (look at the new Sigma 24-70 f2.8). It still takes time, till Sigma or Tamron get native Z-Mount lenses, or isn't it?
I think its better to buy a good camera and upgrade the lenses over time, or what do you think?

I really need to get my hands on an A7R4 and check if the EVF matches my requirements. The A7R3's is horrible IMO. Especially when you switch from a Z7. A complicated menue I can live with, Pixel-Shift is nice (but complicated), but almost always something is moving in my motive, so no option for me with sony.

So it's Sony, isn't it? There are EF to FE Speedbooster Adapter and in crop mode the A7R4 has still 26MP. That's nice

mhedges

So what are you using now? Do you have a lot of Nikon glass?

innocent_pigeon

Hi @mhedges, I used Nikon all my life.
D5100, D5300, D850 and Z7. But the last year was not so good for me and I had to sell my whole gear. Now I tried a A7R3 and didn't like the EVF. Now with 60MP in the room, I don't want to wait for Nikon.
At the moment I only got the 50mm 1.8 FE.
Lens wise, no restrictions, but there are a lot more native FE-lenses then z-lenses actual available and announced.
I had a Sigma 60-600 with the Z7 and it was great!

mhedges

Ah. Well, if you are starting over and need a complete system now it's hard to recommend the Z's.

How did Z7 work for what you did? It's gonna be quite a bit cheaper than the A7R4.

innocent_pigeon

@mhedges yes you are right. (I think I even have a F 50mm somewhere.)

Z7 is a good camera and my negative point with it is the autofocus.
The tracking function is very bad implemented, if you lock on a object (press the shutter button half way), you can just unlock it, with the "zoom out" button, not by releasing the shutter button)
Since I tried it, there was no firmware update, which would help with that problem.
And the tracking isn't suitable for smaller objects. It even can't lock on a pigeon 10m away on the roof next door. With a rented A6400 no problem.

When Nikon updates their AF, maybe even with some AI, I will buy Nikon immediatly.
But I think till then, I need to switch to sony.
What I love about the Nikon Z7, it says Lightroom how strong it has to use noise reduction! Picture Profile 3 or so. The noisy images from the A7R3 were a shock at the first moment.

BVS

innocent_pigeon said:

My main motives are animals (in town parks, like pigeons, ducks or geese), trains/cars/machines and landscapes. And I love to zoom in my pictures and look at every detail of the feathers or mechanics. So MP rules for me.

@donaldejose I think I can't wait 6 or 8 months and the AF won't be as good as Sony's.
And I want to shoot in near future! Especially in winter with trains blowing snow from the tracks or fluffed up birds.

If AF concerns are ultimately what's swaying you towards Sony I think you might want to analyze that a bit more. Yes, the latest generation of Sony cameras generally have excellent AF (although the A7R IV isn't quite as good as the others according to DPR), and yes it's natural to want "the best", but the areas that Sony excels most in are tracking, face detection, and fast action (A9). From what you described above it doesn't sound like that is what you're primarily shooting, so those features may not give you much benefit.

While the Z7 AF may not be as good as the Sonys in tracking and face detection, it's extremely accurate. For landscapes/trains/cars/machines and general local wildlife the AF should be more than sufficient. If you look at posts in various places like the DPR Z forum, FredMiranda, Facebook Z group, etc. people shoot birds, weddings, and every other thing with their Zs.

It's also worth considering what lens(es) you would use in either case and their cost, image quality, etc.

Lastly, have a look at the DPR comparison tool and see how meaningful the extra resolution of the A7R IV is to you. Keep in mind that the Z7 shots were taken with the older 85mm f/1.8 G, and the new 85/1.8 S is sharper. I wish they'd update the images now that it's been released.

https://dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=sony_a7riv&attr13_1=nikon_z7&attr13_2=sony_a7riii&attr13_3=nikon_d7500&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=100&attr16_1=64&attr16_2=100&attr16_3=100&attr126_0=1&attr126_2=1&normalization=full&widget=1&x=0.3222423146473779&y=-0.1858653431160984

innocent_pigeon

While I'm writing my new comment, it sounds absurd to get to sony (just the price difference)....
So I think a used Z7 with FTZ-adapter it will be.

mhedges

innocent_pigeon said:

While I'm writing my new comment, it sounds absurd to get to sony (just the price difference)....
So I think a used Z7 with FTZ-adapter it will be.

There are some great deals on refurbs.

innocent_pigeon

Z7 with FTZ, 2k shoots and qyr. guarantee für 2169€
Sadly there is no AF update in the new firmware

Ton14

@innocent_pigeon ???? The main update to firmware 2.01 was the AF update we all were waiting for, but we always want more.