Nikon D880

snakebunk

The D780 seems similar to the Z6 so I think a D880 would be similar to the Z7 (or its successor). I don't think Nikon will put much research into DSLRs, but will release them with mirorrless tech leftovers as long as there is a demand.

retread

When the R & D for the mirrorless is done why not adapt it to a DSLR?

WestEndFoto

I think the Z50’s focus works fine for the type of camera it is.

Pistnbroke

Quite right West End but they don't have a single mirrorless camera with the focus to match a modern DSLR ( or a spit Sony)

mhedges

WestEndFoto said:

The Z50's success in the long term will depend on lenses. There are only so many that want the current zooms on offer - which will be considerable as they are very competent zooms. But imagine what the Z50 could do with a lens lineup.

Well I wouldn't expect a lineup significantly better than what we got with F mount DX. Honestly I'm not sure we will even get that. They need a wide zoom and a superzoom, but it wouldn't surprise me if that was it. And honestly given the target market for this camera I think that's fine.

WestEndFoto said:

I think the Z50’s focus works fine for the type of camera it is.

Exactly. It's perfectly fine. Better than any of the DX DSLR's other than the D500.

tc88

mhedges said:

Exactly. It's perfectly fine. Better than any of the DX DSLR's other than the D500.

Please, that doesn't make sense. D7100+ can be used to shoot BIF. Can Z50?

mhedges

tc88 said:

mhedges said:

Exactly. It's perfectly fine. Better than any of the DX DSLR's other than the D500.

Please, that doesn't make sense. D7100+ can be used to shoot BIF. Can Z50?

Well if D7100 can than I think Z50 could.

I had D7200 and find Z6 AF to be about the same for moving subjects and far better for still subjects. But I don't do BIF. To be honest I find it kind of weird that everyone gauges a camera's AF performance based on that one particular use.

WestEndFoto

Well said MHedges. But the measurebators don’t have any real photography skills, so that is the only thing they have to go on.

tc88

@mhedges, the reason I mentioned BIF is that it's the most stressful test of AF. D7100, D800, D4 have pretty much the same AF module. Interestingly, I also played around a Z6 a couple of weeks ago in BB. Maybe I didn't get a hang of it, but I wasn't impressed with the big blobs of AF areas, and I have seen plenty of videos of how it performs. I don't think it can compare with the DSLR yet. But since you also have D7200, we can agree to disagree.

@WestEndFoto, your post is silly. If there is a benchmark of gear collection over photo quality, someone on this thread will sit way above everyone else.

WestEndFoto

tc88 said:

@mhedges, the reason I mentioned BIF is that it's the most stressful test of AF. D7100, D800, D4 have pretty much the same AF module. Interestingly, I also played around a Z6 a couple of weeks ago in BB. Maybe I didn't get a hang of it, but I wasn't impressed with the big blobs of AF areas, and I have seen plenty of videos of how it performs. I don't think it can compare with the DSLR yet. But since you also have D7200, we can agree to disagree.

@WestEndFoto, your post is silly. If there is a benchmark of gear collection over photo quality, someone on this thread will sit way above everyone else.

OK, I will acknowledge that my post is silly. But if you have a quarter of what I have and the quarter is everything as old as or older than the D800 (so no E lenses) and you can't make decent photos, it is the photographer, not the gear. Even a D800 can produce great photos of BIF is you are patient enough. My post was an abbreviated way of saying that.

tc88

My previous two posts always said D7100/D800 can do BIF. What I'm trying to point out is that Z6 can't really, thus it has less AF. I don't think I'm really off at that. Plenty of other sites have the same opinion. Even Nikon has stated Z6/Z7 are not wildlife cameras.

I haven't touched Z50, but I would imagine its AF is no better than Z6.

WestEndFoto

tc88 said:

My previous two posts always said D7100/D800 can do BIF. What I'm trying to point out is that Z6 can't really, thus it has less AF. I don't think I'm really off at that. Plenty of other sites have the same opinion. Even Nikon has stated Z6/Z7 are not wildlife cameras.

I haven't touched Z50, but I would imagine its AF is no better than Z6.

Sure, but most people don't use AF for BIF, but AF for things that the Z cameras excel in compared to DSLRs. When deciding who has better AF, would it not be reasonable to weight it by how people actually use cameras? Or perhaps we can settle on "one or the other may have better AF depending on what they are used for"?

PB_PM

Indeed, mirrorless cameras are very well suited to some subject matters, just as DSLR's are currently still better for others.

BIF are not the only thing that can challenge an AF system anyway, even if it is considered a gold standard by some. An kind of sports, from football to hockey can also do so. The most applicable for many photographers, particularly newer ones, is young children, since many expecting parents want to upgrade cameras before the kids are born. Some kids may not have the speed of a bird, but they are just as unpredictable.

In any case, I don't expect static portrait, still life, and landscape shooters to be even remotely challenging a modern AF system, so in turn I wouldn't expect them to understand why some want a more robust AF system. My experience with mirrorless cameras, yes even the Z6/7 I tested, are fine for still subjects, and yes many moving subjects too. Still wouldn't buy one over a DSLR, but that's just me.

snakebunk

For me as a bird photographer bif is the only relevant way to test AF. Perched birds are easy for any camera.

You can photograph bif with any camera but there is a fairly big difference in success rate. I experienced this when going from D800 to D810. And success rate can be very important. I experienced this when I got one good chance of an Ivory Gull during 16 days on Svalbard.

Pistnbroke

West end ...you got me thinking with your comment " most people don't use AF for BIF," If that's true what do they use on a bird that's flying towards you at 60 m ?
Now my extensive stable of Nikons is reduced to a D7200 and a D850 I can tell you for certain that the D850 is way better than the D7200 for everything inc BIF

WestEndFoto

Pistnbroke said:

West end ...you got me thinking with your comment " most people don't use AF for BIF," If that's true what do they use on a bird that's flying towards you at 60 m ?
Now my extensive stable of Nikons is reduced to a D7200 and a D850 I can tell you for certain that the D850 is way better than the D7200 for everything inc BIF

Most people use AF for shooting members of their families. The vast majority of photographers use AF for things other than BIF. Therefore, most people judge AF based on how it performs for them and BIF is largely irrelevant except to a small minority of photographers.

Now that said, my kids are pretty challenging, as they change direction and speed at unpredictable times more than most BIF. :-)

mhedges

Right, that's the thing. Personally I think for the target market the Z50 AF is better than any DSLR AF because of the face and eye detect features. That alone is a huge plus for a lot of folks,since most buy cameras to take pictures of people and not birds.

As far as Z50 vs. Z6 AF - from the reviews I have seen supposedly Z50 is a little better, particularly with face and eye detect. I have not used it myself. I find Z6 AF on fast action (kids soccer) to be pretty good once you are in the right mode (dynamic area AF) and have some experience with it. I get better results with it now than I got with D7200, but I think a good portion of that is just me being better at using the camera. I'm pretty sure I did not get the most out of the D7200's AF system.

Pistnbroke

The suggestions today that the D880 could get either the 46 or a new 55 MP sensor might lead me to think that if its 55 that could herald an improvement in autofocus.

PB_PM

If you are talking about LV focusing, maybe, if they embed more AF sensors into the image sensor. Viewfinder focusing is achieved with a separate AF sensor, so MP and focus accuracy are totally unrelated in that case.

Pistnbroke

Yes, I understand that but what we are getting is DSLRs with mirrorless properties ( D780 in LV) so if a 55 MP sensor has been devised there must be a good reason. Perhaps sony wont let Nikon use the 61MP version or Nikon has ideas of its own. Maybe its for the Z8.
Will be interesting to see if the D880 uses the same body as the D780

mhedges

Where are folks talking about a 55 mp sensor? I figured next step up would be 60 as in A74.

I don't think they would reuse the D780 body. Gotta think any D880 would have at least 1 CFe/XQD slot so they would have to make the body different to accommodate that. It will probably be an iteration of the D850 body. Hopefully retaining the grip contacts and using the same grip as D850.

tc88

mhedges said:

Where are folks talking about a 55 mp sensor? I figured next step up would be 60 as in A74.

I don't think they would reuse the D780 body. Gotta think any D880 would have at least 1 CFe/XQD slot so they would have to make the body different to accommodate that. It will probably be an iteration of the D850 body. Hopefully retaining the grip contacts and using the same grip as D850.

I agree. It will be a D850 body style with 2 slots including at least 1 CFexpress since this will be a top of the line model.

Also I did a search on the 55mp news. I think that one is likely not reputable. I remember reading somewhere that Nikon had already signed up to use the 60mp sensor from Sony. With the small volume involved, I just can't see Nikon paying for the entire cost of manufacturing a new sensor.

Pistnbroke

either NR or Photo Rumors I don't look elsewhere. Evidentally two versions were being tested .
I cannot see it being 60 MP that's reserved for the Z8.

mhedges

Pistnbroke said:

either NR or Photo Rumors I don't look elsewhere. Evidentally two versions were being tested .
I cannot see it being 60 MP that's reserved for the Z8.

I think they will be sharing sensors between DSLR and mirrorless. That certainly seems to be how things have gone so far. Z6/D780 use the same sensor. Z7/D850 use a very similar sensor (PDAF added for Z7). Z50/D500/D7500 use a very similar sensor, again with PDAF added for the Z50. So I would guess the next high MP Z camera and the D850 refresh will continue to use the same sensor.

PB_PM

Sony did announce a 55MP sensor last summer, along with a number of others ranging from 61MP-15MP, but I suspect that the D880, if there even is one, will share whatever the Z7 successor ships with. It would make the process much easier for Nikon, as it would reduce costs in software and firmware development, not to mention streamline the supply situation. It's also highly unlikely that such a camera would use the D780 style body. They might try to make a more compact version of the D850, but I doubt it would be a total makeover.