D800, Discussion, Questions, and Answers

PB_PM

Flare from the moon? I didn't know it's that bright.

The moon is only a reflection of the sun, brightness changes depending on several conditions. The closer it is to the sun in its' cycle the brighter it will be, especially a full moon, or when it has almost finished waxing, or just starting to wane.

ageha

Thanks Msmoto. There was occasionally a slight breeze. The shot was difficult as I was getting flare from the moon as well. Only one out of about 5 that did not have flare!

Flare from the moon? I didn't know it's that bright.

Flare from the moon? I didn't know it's that bright.

The moon is only a reflection of the sun, brightness changes depending on several conditions. The closer it is to the sun in its' cycle the brighter it will be, especially a full moon, or when it has almost finished waxing, or just starting to wane.

Well, I guess I have to try it myself again. Still hard to believe the moon as a light source can cause flare. The moon is pretty diffuse...

Nikonguy

i remember an old college trick exam question asking the ideal exposure for photographing the moon with detail, the answer of course: shutter speed to at least match the lens length and aperture to suit typical daylight conditions here on earth, after all it's the same light source, the only caveat being is experiment due to atmospheric conditions etc, but it's a good starting point.

proudgeek

I always thought it was the the Sunny 16 rule essentially divided by 2 to account for the fact that the light is reflected as opposed to a direct source. So you'd use an aperture of f/8, with shutter speed equal to ISO, at least for a full moon. The problem would be of course for a shot like Yeti's that wouldn't be an exposure nearly long enough to capture the stars.

Msmoto

@ ageha


While the moon is not "that bright" in conventional terms, it is daylight up there and the exposure is roughly 1/500 sec, f/8, ISO 100. If one is shooting a long several second exposure at f/16, this dramatically overexposes the moon, with the resultant flare, unless ND filters are utilized.

Wow, I was a bit slow on the post...LOL

lesovers

Just purchased the new D800 as I felt most of the initial problems have been
fixed, and after seeing some fantastic D800 photos on Flickr recently. The D800E still does not appeal to me at all, the colors and Bokeh has never looked right.

The problems I found from a work D800 camera purchased in May 2012 are;

1. Green tint in low lights on the Raw and JPGs
2. Green LCD
3. Intermittent low contrast and brightness using flash photography
4. Out of focus on one sensor side (have not seen this on the work camera)

Have compared both the new D800 and old D800 and the difference is amazing. The brand new shipped D800 now have none of these problems at all and the new images are simply wonderful.

Also have realised the 1/(focal length) rule does not normally apply on the D800 and a fast shutter between 50% to 100% is now required.

Msmoto

@ lesovers

Thanks...must be time to purchase a D800....

fishguy

@Fishguy - what lens are you shooting with?

Tao - sorry, I missed your question. Typically, I use a Sigma 105mm at f22 to resolve the spots better. I also used a Nikon 28-300 and the spots are there as well, just not quite as noticable. So Nikon USA refused to accept the fifth camera back, they told me that the dust is "environmental" and to just use dust-off-reference photo. Deny, deny, deny - doesn't work for me. I could demonstrate oil/dust build-up using a brand new nikon lens and not changing it...the only "enviroment" is crud in the mirror box!

My credit card company obviously understands, as on Monday, they revoked my credit card payment to Nikon, and suddenly, Nikon changed their mind and will take the camera back.

I'm going to buy a NEW D800, from Adorama or B&H to have some sort of buffer between me and Nikon USA

~Fishguy

TaoTeJared

It is a bit unreasonable to think dust won't get on a sensor, especially if you use big zooms. The 28-300 is what they call a dust plunger lens as it does push a bunch of air back into the body if you zoom it fast. After 4 times, I would start to question the lenses and dust in them.

Yetibuddha

@Lesovers,

Why did you state the following at the end of your last post: "Also have realised the 1/(focal length) rule does not normally apply on the D800 and a fast shutter between 50% to 100% is now required."?

fishguy

It is a bit unreasonable to think dust won't get on a sensor, especially if you use big zooms. The 28-300 is what they call a dust plunger lens as it does push a bunch of air back into the body if you zoom it fast. After 4 times, I would start to question the lenses and dust in them.

TaoTeJared,
I was using my old D300 and a friend's D800 (bought new in Nov. 2012) as a baseline metric for this - neither of these had a tenth the number of spots that these refurbished D800s had after just a couple of hundred shots. I used the brand new 28-300 indoors and spots still built up, I do not agree that the dust was coming from inside the lens. Finally, the worst spots are large, round, dark black and have a halo around them...I don't think these could be anything but oil. I do see some spots that are environmental - comma shaped and diffuse small spots are obviously dust - and these can be blown away with a rocket blower, but the oil spots remain.

~fishguy

Hessephoto

We have a d800 and it is awesome for long exposures, its the perfect camera for that.

lesovers

@Lesovers,

Why did you state the following at the end of your last post: "Also have realised the 1/(focal length) rule does not normally apply on the D800 and a fast shutter between 50% to 100% is now required."?

Hi Yetibuddha,

As in the handheld camera shake rule, for example at say 24mm set the shutter to a minimum of 1/24 second to help guarantee removal of image movement blur. On the D800 you can almost guarantee you will get some image blur if you use 1/25 shutter at 24mm without using VR. Therefore I use 1/40 to 1/60 second shutter at 24mm on the D800 and it seems to fix the problem.

Msmoto

Re: The 1/focal length rule....probably comes from before my time...way back in the early days of 35mm, Leica's, etc., and was based upon resolution of film.

This is somewhat the same issue as DOF. With the ability to crop out small portions of the frame and enlarge these via computer, my experience has shown the DOF is far less than I might have thought. An example is on PAD, my post of a bird from about ten feet away, 400mm f/2.8, TC-20EIII, f/11....the DOF is maybe a centimeter at best. And what is shown in the image is less than 1/3rd the full frame.

Large: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fantinesfotos/8456236923/sizes/o/in/photostream/

Now, this was shot at the inverse of the focal length 1/800, but this begins to be adequate on a tripod, VR off.

However, at shorter focal lengths there are also other factors. E.g., at 1/24th second, people motion will be evident, and at super sized enlargements camera shake most likely will be evident. Thsu, with the ISO capabilities of today's cameras, I like to shoot at about 1/160th second. Of course, if one looks in the concert thread, it is obvious I will drop much lower if I decide I need it.

Yetibuddha

Thank you Lesover. I am familiar with the inverse shutter speed rule you state, but I was wondering why you feel this is not adequate on the D800, that's all.

TaoTeJared

Yeti - It was never a steadfast rule but a guide. I have the same experience as lesover and bump up the shutter speed on the D800 as well. 50mm = 1/60th, 85mm = 1/100th, and so on. Mainly what you can see is that the minute shake that you could not see on a 12mp sensor (as it was smaller than the resolution- think veins in the eye) the D800 resolves so fine, that you can now see it. Now that is pixel peeping, but with some subjects it makes a bit of difference, especially if you are cropping. Prior to the D800 I wouldn't care as the option to get that detailed of an image was not there, now it is.

Yetibuddha

TTJ, thanks for the clarification.

SquamishPhoto

I don't find this to be the case for me at all, even with the 100mm @ 1/100. Im no more careful at that shutter speed with the D800 than I was with the D700.

PB_PM

I agree with Squamish. I hear the same arguments every time a new high megapixel camera comes out, and yet skill wins the day each time.

Yetibuddha

I agree PB.

donaldejose

Might depend a bit on age. At 65 my hands and hold are not as steady as they used to be.

lesovers

On my old D700 the 1/(focal length) rule works just fine every time, however shooting the same subjects on the D800 the images have motion blur. For me it seems to be worse with the light primes such as the 50mm and 85mm which could point to something to do with my shooting technique 8-|

timekeeper

I am having trouble taking shots of some old photos with the D800. I get a little blur even with a tripod and using the mirror up mode.I guess I need brighter lights so I can use a faster shutter speed.

roombarobot

It is exciting and a bit challenging to shoot with the D800. The detail possible is insane. What was once sub-pixel can now be resolved. That includes tiny motion blur too. I have followed the 1/focal-length guideline since the old film days. Now I am going to add a bit of padding onto that, but I try to stay as close to the native ISO that I can for best color and dynamic range.

Has anyone seen if there is a change in how much VR helps? I am sure the image stabilization mechanism is better at stopping some vibration frequencies/amplitudes better than others. I wonder if that is more/less suited to the D800.

TaoTeJared

I am having trouble taking shots of some old photos with the D800. I get a little blur even with a tripod and using the mirror up mode.I guess I need brighter lights so I can use a faster shutter speed.

"shots of some old photos" - are you trying to use the D800 to copy old pictures?

If so - just set a diffused lamp or a light off to either side to get your exposure up. Much cheaper than a lens. I have found shooting at f/8 with a true macro lens works best.