Silence will be the end of the DSLR

Pistnbroke

Interesting comment by Frono that he is finding that cameras which cannot work silently are being banned from press conferences . So why would anyone who might need silence to earn his/her crust buy a DSLR.
True you could use live view but not long term.

photobunny

Silence has also been desired and is almost demanded in some venues for weddings and the like too. And I have found the silent shutter on the Z6 invaluable for some wildlife. Nothing like scaring the jebus out of people in an echoing church (especially with the limit on people allowed to attend these day) with your DSLR. Personally I do like the satisfying clank, but not scaring subjects is equally good.

mhedges

I definitely think silent shutter at certain events will become a requirement. And as said some DSLR's can do it (Nikons not so much because the AF is very slow on anything but the D780) but it's still far from ideal since there is no viewfinder available.

Symphotic

Back in my film days I actually got kicked off a site while using an astoundingly quiet Leica M4P. It just wasn’t quiet enough. Since I’ve had my Z7 I have been nodded and smiled at by the staff in certain locations with “no photography” signs posted. Noise is annoying.

Pistnbroke

The comments did prompt me to try the D850 in live view as I have one more wedding to photograph (2022) Considering I would be static in the church and so would the bride/groom I could get away with manual focus and focus peaking but not too sure about close ups of rings and not bride coming down aisle,perhaps I would have to revert to some focus puller marks as I zoom. Still a while to go to 2022!

photobunny

Once the silent shutter gets the speed it needs to stop the jelly effect it’ll be quite the revolution for many types of photography. Though you can be sure a some point they’ll be a sound so people know you are taking a picture.

mhedges

Yes I think the next "revolution" will be global shutter, accompanied by the elimination of the mechanical shutter. Sigma already has a video oriented shutterless model out.

photobunny

Aye the Canon R1 is rumoured to be a global shutter so I think that is where we are going and it is kinda just a matter of course now. They are talking 30 FPS silent shutter with no jello, so I kinda has to be a global shutter and the CPU's in these things are markably faster than they used to need to be.

I expect global shutter + silent shooting -> working to zero lag wake up -> zero lag EVF -> all day battery. The mechanical shutter is needed just now for some things, but it is very much this thing that can break and a limit on the camera passing 1/8000, shutter slam bouncing the camera, and hitting stupid FPS(30 is now the expectation for the Z9, R1, and A9iii).

WestEndFoto

A global shutter is not needed if read times are fast enough. Think of a global shutter as having zero read time. Zero is not strictly necessary. “Really fast” is necessary. I note that really fast might be really really fast.

It would certainly be nice to get rid of the mechanical shutter.

mhedges

Yeah it probably won't ever be zero. But I guess once below some number (not sure what that number is) then it is considered to be global. A9 is 1/250 or so I believe and I think that's pretty close.

Pistnbroke

And sort the silent mode flash out

NSXTypeR

Even the D40 is surprisingly loud inside a whisper quiet museum. I was definitely not expecting that.

MrFotoFool

Forgive my ignorance, but what is global shutter?

Pistnbroke

Global..All pixels exposed at the same time like an in lens leaf shutter. With a rolling shutter, a strip of pixels is exposed as the strip moves across the frame. Because a rolling shutter does not expose all the frame at the same time this gives rise to distortion with moving objects.
There would be no mechanical shutter the electronics to activate the pixels being built into the sensor. All 35mm mirrorless are rolling shutters when in silent mode hence no flash ability.

DenverShooter

Hence the reason (amongst many) why I shoot with a D6 and D850.

Mirrorless simply isn't capable of doing what I need to get done.

Maybe in another 4 or 5 years..

Denver Shooter

mhedges

Nearly all current mirrorless models have mechanical shutters. IF you use them then rolling shutter isn't a problem - they behave exactly like DSLR's in that respect.

DenverShooter

Right but then they make noise..

Which was the whole point of this discussion.

At some point mirrorless will become good enough to replace mirrored DSLRs. Probably 4 or 5 years. But they aren't there yet for what I do.

Denver Shooter

mhedges

I'm not getting your argument here, at least as far as making noise. Your DSLR's make noise too, actually quite a bit more due to the mirror slap and generally noisier shutters.

Pistnbroke

What he is saying is that when the registrar says silent cameras only that is what they mean, not quiet ..like no flash during the service .... The silent function of present mirrorless cameras is not up to DSLR standards yet but even as it exists now it will kill off the DSLR

mhedges

Mmm OK. Don't see how that supports the argument to hang on to DSLR's in this context but anyway...

Agree that mirrorless silent function isn't there for action stuff yet (A9 possibly excepted) but for event type work I think it's fine as is. Here is an album from a school play I shot right before everything closed down, 100% silent shutter on Z6. There is no way I could have gotten these shots even with the D780 because I needed to use EVF; there wasn't room to hold the camera at arms length as is needed when using the rear screen and anyway I don't think that would have been well received in a dark theater. Plus I doubt I would have been able to hold a camera with a 70-200 2.8 for an hour like that.

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmLEAd7W

WestEndFoto

Pistnbroke said:

What he is saying is that when the registrar says silent cameras only that is what they mean, not quiet ..like no flash during the service .... The silent function of present mirrorless cameras is not up to DSLR standards yet but even as it exists now it will kill off the DSLR

The demands of a niche use (Note 1), wedding photography, are not going to kill off DSLRs. Something may kill of DSLRs, but it won't be that.

Note 1: Does anybody here think that more than 5% of cameras are going to be used for wedding photography in a meaningful (money making) way?

photobunny

WestEndFoto said:

Note 1: Does anybody here think that more than 5% of cameras are going to be used for wedding photography in a meaningful (money making) way?

I can imagine there are many more wedding and event photographers than wildlife. I wouldn't be able hazard a guess on the percentage. Though it suspect in professional use it is quite high. At least they are vocal on YouTube and seem to be the target market for the 14-24, 24-70, 70-200 and the 50/85 fast primes.

spraynpray

WestEndFoto said:

The demands of a niche use (Note 1), wedding photography, are not going to kill off DSLRs. Something may kill of DSLRs, but it won't be that.

Agreed. Maybe marketing and Sales BS will play a bigger part.

snakebunk

Silence is one of the advantages of mirrorless. It is rarely important in my bird photography, but I remember one time when a hawk landed just outside of a hide. I waited for a couple of minutes until I shot my first picture, but on the second exposure it flew because of the noice.

I don't know how many cameras are used for wedding photography, but it seems to me like a big niche when it comes to making money. I know of at least a couple of nature photographers that does it for an extra income.

For me it is a matter of af and lens support if my next camera will be mirrorless. But I will be happy to leave the mirror behind when the time comes.

MrFotoFool

Thanks for the replies about global shutter (and related discussion on silent shutter). A lot of newer DSLR's, like my D850, have a quiet shutter mode. It's not completely silent, but surely it is quiet enough for most uses where you need to be quiet?

Digital replaced film (except for a few niche photographers) because the advantages are clear and real (hundreds of shots vs 36, high ISO, instant feedback in the field, no processing costs). The advantages of mirrorless over digital SLR are not as clear so I don't see the change being as quick or complete as it was with film. Since manufacturers are going all-in on the technology, it will eventually take over as SLR equipment gets old. But there is no urgent reason for most of us to switch over as there was with film (and even then I was a late adopter of digital).

Pistnbroke

The D850 Quiet mode is not quiet at all ..sort of two clicks. I use the decibel meter on my phone for tests . The D810 is a lot quieter. I think anyone doing any sort of commercial work is well advised to go for a silent mode camera as studio and building site is the only shure place you wont need it .