Sad Times for NR

Pistnbroke

Since the pandemic the general interest in Forums seems to have declined .Its sad that the Blog is more interesting than the forum posts

Ton14

@Pistnbroke I totally agree, it was going on before the pandemic. The reasons why are obvious, there is hardly any (no) recruitment, photography as we do it is dying out, small compact cameras are gone as they have been replaced by mobile phones, which are very capable. Prices of equipment are high.

Other than that, we are pretty old

Oh and I forget the most important thing, Nikon has not been number 1 for a long time.

NSXTypeR

It's hard to justify spending so much on gear when a phone is considerably more readily available. I used to travel far more frequently. The pandemic definitely put the kibosh on that. The economy is bad. I will say that every so often I will definitely come across a photographic situation where I'd go, dang, I wish I had my DSLR with me right now.

Hopefully I have some trips coming up soon and I'll be able to use my gear a lot more!

donaldejose

Pistnbroke. I have noticed the same thing: no more interesting dialogue like we used to have. I think we should be able to post our like or dislike of a photo on PAD. People will be encouraged to post and participate if they can get some response to a photo they post. No response equals no motivation to post. Bring back the affirmations, conflicts, hurt feelings, arguments, etc! Liven up PAD again. Or should I say "Make PAD Great Again!" LOL

photobunny

It is a rather involved process to register for the forums and registering for the forums is not necessary to reply to the blog. Having the user accounts as separate entities is quite the hurdle. If you look at the CanonRumours format it is setup to encourage a forum login to reply about the rumour news and then after, off to other topics.

Capt_Spaulding

Donald and Pbunny, I think, are on to something. That said, we have an age problem. I’m a month shy of 70 and am having substantial mobility problems. I’ve been jonesing to replace my D750 and D7200 with a Z8. The Z8, 24-120 f4, FTZ2 kit is sooo sweet.

Unlikely at this stage unless I get significantly better pretty soon. What the craft needs is new blood. I’m not optimistic about that. Phones are too good and getting better. Mastering a DSLR or higher end mirrorless (the Z8 reference guide runs close to 1000 pages) takes a nontrivial commitment and costs thousands. A commitment a $1000 phone doesn’t require. Hope I’m wrong.

Pistnbroke

Its been commented on before that joining this forum is too much of a faff,
But I think its too late the horse has bolted.
When I was a wedding photographer there was a point in taking the pictures ..I got paid but what do you do with a picture of a duck?

spraynpray

It is sad to see for sure. I do not subscribe to the mobile phones replaced small cameras because they are so good, I think it is just laziness. Who wants to carry a camera if you can get an 'ok' picture with something you are carrying anyway. For me, the whole experience of making an image with camera or phone is entirely different.

spraynpray

Pistnbroke said:

Its been commented on before that joining this forum is too much of a faff,
But I think its too late the horse has bolted.
When I was a wedding photographer there was a point in taking the pictures ..I got paid but what do you do with a picture of a duck?

your view point is that of someone who only uses the forum and not someone who moderates it.

The forum would have gone away entirely if the joining wasn't controlled.

Ton14

Just a few figures, between 2008 and 2012, over 100 million cameras were sold and as many as 121 million in 2010. In 2016, there were only 24 million, this number dropped to 9 million in 2020 and to 8 million in 2022.

The top D-SLR number in 2010 was 12.8 million sold. By 2022, there were only 1.9 million. With this, the market share has fallen to less than 15 per cent since 2010.

In 2010, Canon and Nikon were at the top, but with the rise of Sony, Nikon lost its market share.

The line between perfect and good enough has disappeared and, as @donaldejose has already shown, perfect images can be made with cheaper third-party lenses.

So there are very few of us Nikon guys and girls left, which is clear from the forum.

Furthermore, software is getting better and easier to use, making it less and less important what brand of camera a picture was taken with, also considering the huge number of converters, allowing us to use lenses of any brand on any camera..

But for me as an 81-year-old Nikon user, there is still room for a "Nikon" forum.

I love this era of all these new developments.

NSXTypeR

I'm going to keep shooting with my D7000 and D7500 until their shutters fail, which is going to be quite some time.

If I remember correctly, part of the issue is that running a server for the site does cost money and I think while Admin isn't stepping back from Nikon Rumors, he/she isn't investing more into it. I remember a post about how Instagram and Facebook isn't promoting or agreeing with the algorithm and isn't going to be up top on searches.

I respect that the site is still running and available as a resource to us all though and will continue to visit.

jonnyapple

I don't even know the last time I was on the forum. I thought I'd post some thoughts here. I stopped following the site semi-religiously when I stopped doing any paid work. I still use my Nikon (a D750) for images that I love and for jobs that I do for family (for example, two huge group family reunion pictures this summer and using an ES-2 to digitize over 10,000 slides from both my mom's and my dad's family; I'm about half done with that).

In some ways I've branched out over the past ten years. I enjoy flying my little DJI drone to do some photography and cell phone cameras are so far beyond where I ever thought they could be that I choose not to bring a "real" camera on a lot of the hikes I do so I can save weight. For example, yesterday my wife and I did a 31-mile day hike in southwest Yellowstone. I don't think I could do that if I brought the five pounds of camera gear I'd like to have with me. As an aside, I had a fun conversation with a couple from Virginia that were backpacking there and the wife had a Nikon Z7 II with a beautiful lens (if I followed more closely here I could tell you which it was ;-). It was worth the extra weight for her to bring, so maybe I just need to stop being lazy.

It's so fun to see familiar names here after so many years. I hope life has gone well for everyone. It has been great for me.

Pistnbroke

Quote ...your view point is that of someone who only uses the forum and not someone who moderates it.
The forum would have gone away entirely if the joining wasn't controlled.

Sounds a bit like Putin's control of Russia

donaldejose

I still remember "the good old days" when there were "hot and heavy debates" about actual craft (Pistnbroke received a lot of criticism over his wedding shooting technique with taped up cameras until the sense of it all finally sunk in to his critics) and I received a lot of criticism for saying fast lenses should be shot at f4 to keep both eyes in focus if the subject is at an angle to the camera so both eyes were not in the same focal plane) and the guy from Vancouver with the massive gear collection (forgot his name - maybe WestEndPhoto?) received a lot of criticism for "oversaturated images" which he defended in a huff as his creative choice. It was not just about the latest gear. It was about how to use the gear and how to post process. It was about actual PHOTOGRAPHY technique and intent and execution which we seem to have been lost over time. That is why I think likes and dislikes should be allowed and encouraged again on PAD and elsewhere. That is also why I try to post something interesting on PAD rather than just a photograph.

Pistnbroke

Ha Ha ..taped up ..wifes hands going everywhere ....memories.
I can still start a thread that causes discussion

mhedges

I think in general younger people aren't into forums, even if they are into photography. I also think the non-standard software used here and especially the inability to upload images directly hurts the site.

A lot of people use their phones for almost everything these days and its basically impossible to get the correct "embed" link from Flickr when on a mobile device.

photobunny

mhedges said:

I think in general younger people aren't into forums, even if they are into photography. I also think the non-standard software used here and especially the inability to upload images directly hurts the site.

A lot of people use their phones for almost everything these days and its basically impossible to get the correct "embed" link from Flickr when on a mobile device.

The forum software is indeed a bit alien, but the real issue is the effort to the reward. Since the news and forum are separated, all the debates happen in disqus and then die with the new article. Just look over to Canon Rumours and you'll see forums are alive and well, they even just discuss photos taken regardless of brand. It isn't even a old vs young thing, its just the forums are set up like a wee private club no girls allowed.

Pistnbroke

Its all down to the guy in california who is making money out these sites and the advice he is given by the UK moderator .
PS how easy is it to get kicked off NR ? In truth I dont care any more .

spraynpray

Due to the absolute crap posted above, I have sent the following message to Peter:

Hello Peter,
Please take this as notice of my resignation as moderator of your forum with immediate effect. I have been doing this thankless task for many years now and the now find the increasing level ingratitude and snide comments to have extinguished my desire to help out.
I wish you good luck finding a replacement.
Andrew.

NSXTypeR

jonnyapple said:

I don't even know the last time I was on the forum. I thought I'd post some thoughts here. I stopped following the site semi-religiously when I stopped doing any paid work. I still use my Nikon (a D750) for images that I love and for jobs that I do for family (for example, two huge group family reunion pictures this summer and using an ES-2 to digitize over 10,000 slides from both my mom's and my dad's family; I'm about half done with that).

In some ways I've branched out over the past ten years. I enjoy flying my little DJI drone to do some photography and cell phone cameras are so far beyond where I ever thought they could be that I choose not to bring a "real" camera on a lot of the hikes I do so I can save weight. For example, yesterday my wife and I did a 31-mile day hike in southwest Yellowstone. I don't think I could do that if I brought the five pounds of camera gear I'd like to have with me. As an aside, I had a fun conversation with a couple from Virginia that were backpacking there and the wife had a Nikon Z7 II with a beautiful lens (if I followed more closely here I could tell you which it was ;-). It was worth the extra weight for her to bring, so maybe I just need to stop being lazy.

It's so fun to see familiar names here after so many years. I hope life has gone well for everyone. It has been great for me.

Good to see you around too! Life has been great for me too! I mean I got a job and can actually afford gear, I just don't shoot that much to justify me purchasing new gear.

mhedges said:

I think in general younger people aren't into forums, even if they are into photography. I also think the non-standard software used here and especially the inability to upload images directly hurts the site.

A lot of people use their phones for almost everything these days and its basically impossible to get the correct "embed" link from Flickr when on a mobile device.

Oh definitely, it's mostly Instagram and Reddit now.

photobunny said:

mhedges said:

I think in general younger people aren't into forums, even if they are into photography. I also think the non-standard software used here and especially the inability to upload images directly hurts the site.

A lot of people use their phones for almost everything these days and its basically impossible to get the correct "embed" link from Flickr when on a mobile device.

The forum software is indeed a bit alien, but the real issue is the effort to the reward. Since the news and forum are separated, all the debates happen in disqus and then die with the new article. Just look over to Canon Rumours and you'll see forums are alive and well, they even just discuss photos taken regardless of brand. It isn't even a old vs young thing, its just the forums are set up like a wee private club no girls allowed.

The forum software is definitely very old, Google Plus is still recommended as a means of logging in, it hasn't been around in years.

Also, the fact that there's no easy way to share photos other than through Flickr really hinders the growth of the forum.

photobunny

NSXTypeR said:

Also, the fact that there's no easy way to share photos other than through Flickr really hinders the growth of the forum.

Image hosting can be expensive, though even our largest forum is like $20/month. The cost for the current member base here would be trivial (as long as you know how to play with AWS S3 and CloudFront properly)

Then there is the problematic side, people will post really disgusting stuff that moderators need to take down and in some cases, they'll need to take legal action. Often this is why there is an x posts until you can post a picture, but that doesn't solve someone's account being hacked.

By using Flickr you are offloading the responsibility to them, but it isn't the solution I would choose. But I am an engineer with time and resources. Usually, you need at least two moderators to cover the timezones, but remember these people are volunteers and even in this thread we can see they aren't permanent things.

donaldejose

spraynpray. Don't be offended by someone's ridiculous (if taken negatively) post which many have simply been intended say that if any of offered suggestions were to be implemented they would have to judged as good ideas by the owner and moderator who are in the best positions to judge. I read the phrase "it is all down" meaning that the adoption of any suggested changes is up to two people. "It" refers to "changes." "Down" refers to "making a judgement. "It" does not refer to NR and "down" does not refer to the decline in participation. If that negative spin was intended it just reflects the persons uninformed and irrational ignorance. Your work here has been and is greatly appreciated. NR Forum's decline undoubtedly is multifactorial reflecting the many changes which have occurred over the last 20 years. When us "old guys" were once much younger the world was a different place and that wasn't so long ago, Nikon was Number 1, cell phones where not the chief way to access the internet, websites not apps were all the rage, when one wanted to learn something they joined a chat group not searched for a youtube video on it, etc. The world has been changing fast recently.

This conflict reminds me of some things Theodore Roosevelt wrote:

"...the man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere critic-the man who actually does the work, even if roughly and imperfectly, not the man who only talks or writes about how it ought to be done." (1891)

"Criticism is necessary and useful; it is often indispensable; but it can never take the place of action, or be even a poor substitute for it. The function of the mere critic is of very subordinate usefulness. It is the doer of deeds who actually counts in the battle for life, and not the man who looks on and says how the fight ought to be fought, without himself sharing the stress and the danger." (1894)

and said: " It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena . . . ." (1910)

Pistnbroke

You got my email.

PB_PM

Some things are just meant to die, this place had it's time. Life changes peoples focus, less time for photography, means less time thinking about the gear and photos.

Ton14

@spraynpray Hi Andrew, thanks for all the work and time you spent for this forum, too bad you are quitting as you had a fine way of moderating. If the Nikon forum still stands I do hope to still see posts from you, but we'll see what the future brings.

mhedges

@spraynpray Appreciate everything you have done here. Hope you will stick around as a member at least.