Format Memory Cards or Delete Images?

TaoTeJared

My flow includes 8 cards - Shoot (event,studio, etc.) end of event all images get downloaded -> card goes to bottom of pile. New card inserted and formatted before each shoot. With my schedule, the "bottom card" usually will not be used or needed and still have the images on it until I have delivered the project. It is just an extra (3rd) back-up.

Using a card till it's full makes zero sense to me - why limit your space or give yourself the opportunity to run out?

From what I understand of use/cycles/etc., haroldp has already stated it. The one thing I will add is that "sectors" or small bit sections regularly go bad and formatting (Camera) actually finds and removes them from being used in the future. I oversimplified that, but formatting regularly does help the card's health or maybe better put, creates less of a chance to run into a bad sector that affect an image. I have had it happen a few times, but never lost a "whole" card - just an image or two. If you shot 1000 images every day, on one card, you probably should buy new cards every year. Then again at that rate, the shutter on your camera is also at it's end of life as well.

Ade

The one thing I will add is that "sectors" or small bit sections regularly go bad and formatting (Camera) actually finds and removes them from being used in the future.

That would only be possible if the camera does a "full format" (low-level format) of the card, which it doesn't. Nikon DSLRs only perform "quick" formats to clear the file system structures. In any case, on flash devices, it's up to the flash control to perform any sector remapping.

TaoTeJared

I paraphrased Nikon's support site, so if you have issue with what the camera does or doesn't do, you can take it up with them. They say the camera's do that, so I believe them. High-level, low-level, some sort of mix - I could care less - that is what they say to do, and it has always worked for me. The only time I have seen issues are with cards that people format in their computers.

Ade

Link?

What's been provided is incorrect information regardless of the source, so I would be happy to send Nikon a correction if they have this info on their support site.

Canon cameras can perform low-level formats, at least for SD cards. Nikon DSLRs do not give users this option.

TaoTeJared

Ha ha ha ha - yeah you go do that Ade. You go tell the Nikon developers who make their living at designing Nikon products that you are right and they are wrong. I'm sure they will love to hear from you.

I don't keep a list entitled "For Ade" saved on my computer for what I read. It never occurred to me that I was suppose to do that for you. I did a quick search on Nikon's site and it came back for 11,000 articles. It's out there, so have fun reading Nikon articles.

Ade

Call me skeptical.

Nikon support entries aren't typically written by developers or engineers. For example, not so long ago a Nikon support entry advised photographers "not to breathe" on lenses, since acids on your breath apparently could damage coatings on Nikon lenses. That bogus statement was retracted.

Since you're good at web search, you might Google that in the long past I was a developer who worked on FAT file system source code patches as part of the FreeBSD project, where I had "commit" privileges.

So, perhaps I might know a thing or two about file systems, formatting, bad sector remapping, etc. -- compared to the poor intern tasked to write Nikon support entries that day.

mikep

different cameras have different file systems, can cause issues sometimes

copy, backup, format

PB_PM

I have yet to use a digital camera that did not use a FAT file system (16 or 32bit). Every Nikon camera on the market today uses FAT32. It's not the file system that changes, but way files are placed on the card by the camera that changes and can cause problems.

Ade

The newest cameras from Nikon and others actually use exFAT (not FAT32) on high capacity SD cards.

So mikep is theoretically correct, although this scenario would only happen when using a high capacity SD card from a new model camera and then placing it into an older Nikon camera. The card must be reformatted to FAT32 before it can be used.

PB_PM

Ah, I was unaware of the change to exFAT. I suppose that was done to allow for larger video files?

Ade

Yes, sort of.

exFAT is required by the SDXC specification, so starting with the D7000 every Nikon with an SD card slot must support exFAT. Conversely, cameras prior to the D7000 might not have exFAT support.

As you say, exFAT allows larger video files, but unfortunately no Nikon DSLRs actually take advantage of this capability. The current 30-minute video limit (20 minutes at high bit rate) means < 4 GB file sizes.

Anaxagoras

I format my cards when I know that everything on them is safely backed up to a remote location.

I've always found memory cards pretty reliable, but formatting has sorted out most of the problems I have had.

And I always re-format a card in the camera/device if it's swapped to a different camera/device. SatNavs seem to be especially "flaky".

tc88

I agree with Ade that the camera format is only a high level format that cleans up the file system.

Consider a 32GB Sandisk extreme SD card rated at 45MB/s. For a low level format, to write every bit at theoretical speed will take more than 600 seconds. That doesn't yet include the time needed to read all those bits out and compare. I don't think anyone's Nikon in camera format takes remotely that long.

NSXTypeR

A bit of a weird thing I noticed- I put a card I used in the D40 into the D7000 and did the two button format. The camera told me that it formatted the card. I shot with it and everything was fine. But when I put the card in the card reader to my computer, I found the photos from the D40 in the card. Isn't format supposed to erase everything in the card?

Ironheart

NSX, which firmware on the D7000? Also, what kind of card? Inquiring minds want to know

NSXTypeR

Ah, I actually don't remember, because I don't have access to the D7000 right now. I do know I never updated the D7000 because I'm deathly afraid of bricking it. I do know that the card is a Sandisk 32 gig, possibly a class 6 card. The D40 on the other hand was the latest firmware as of Janury 2013.

I will be able to find out more info about the D7000 this Saturday at earliest.

Thanks!

Ade

My guess is you accidentally didn't finish the two button format (very easy to do).

However, the D40 and the D7000 operate from different directories by default -- so from the D7000's perspective, the card looked empty since its directory was empty. And to you it looked like the format was successful since the D7000 would report "no images" in its directory.

When you put the card on the card reader, the computer can see both the D7000's directory and the D40's directory.

Nikoner

I format all cards in camera every time I clean my equipment, which is after every alternate shoot.

spraynpray

My guess is you accidentally didn't finish the two button format (very easy to do).

However, the D40 and the D7000 operate from different directories by default -- so from the D7000's perspective, the card looked empty since its directory was empty. And to you it looked like the format was successful since the D7000 would report "no images" in its directory.

You beat me to it Ade. I did the same thing myself.

adamz

after copying the files to external hdd I simply delete them. only occasionally I format cards.

Dredden85

After I transfer images to a HDD, I format the cards in body every time. No card issues ever on a Nikon body for me. I only delete the unsharps on body.

haroldp

A high level format rebuilds the directory which is much more likely to be the cause of a problem than sectors in the flash memory, which Ade correctly points out are handled by the card controller.

FAT directories are notoriously delicate. which why critical applications (or databases) use journalled file structures like NTFS or ext3 (UFS).

I am a professional software engineer and Database Administrator and I always re-format in the camera when starting or re-using a card.

... H

NSXTypeR

NSX, which firmware on the D7000? Also, what kind of card? Inquiring minds want to know

The firmware is as follows-
A 1.02
B 1.03
L 1.006

Yes, I haven't updated my D7000 in a while.

NSXTypeR

Just a bit of a bump, because I read the earlier page and didn't see an answer to my question- so is formatting the card "in camera" necessarily a bad thing for the card?

Or does it not matter?

haroldp

Formatting in camera is the best way.

Fat32 (used by flash cards) is such a fragile file system that insert / delete cycles can easily corrupt a directory.

Formatting in camera does not write the entire card, only block headers.

Some cameras have an option to write the entire card, but Nikon does not.

I always initialize new cards in a computer with a one time 0 overlay secure erase, then format in camera.

I am professional Database Administrator and understand storage systems.

... H