300 mm f4

tc88

I think they will come up with a new 300 f/4 VR which will cost 1k more and they want to force people to upgrade or buy that one. Thus they purposely decided to disable the support for the current one.

proudgeek

Well it's a moot point to discuss any new TC14III here. It's not compatible. From Nikon's page http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/teleconverters/af-s_tc-14e_3/spec.htm

"Because the maximum aperture coupling ridge and minimum aperture signal post are eliminated with the AF-S TELECONVERTER TC-14E III, “FEE” is displayed on the camera body when these lenses are used, disabling shooting."

I would imagine when Nikon comes up with TC17III, it will be the same thing. Again, Nikon at its best trying to disable and squeeze its customers instead of supporting its customers.

When I first saw this, I thought Nikon was disabling support for the current generation of super teles. I get that you're annoyed, and far be it from me to tell you not to be, but there is a compatibility cycle for all electronic products. I've had printers become obsolete when when buying new computers, and it's much the same thing. This doesn't seem to be too different from what other manufacturers do. Does anyone know how old the lenses are that are no longer supported by the new TC? 10 years?

As you say in the prior post, this may be the best sign yet that a revamped 300 f/4 is on the horizon.

PB_PM

I think they will come up with a new 300 f/4 VR which will cost 1k more and they want to force people to upgrade or buy that one. Thus they purposely decided to disable the support for the current one.

That's my guess as well, doesn't really help existing owners of the current version who have no interest in upgrading.

As for the quality of the TC's I used the old TC14E (AF-I version) and it worked with the 300mm F4 very well. I believe the only difference was the anti-reflective coating was less effective.

PB_PM

When I first saw this, I thought Nikon was disabling support for the current generation of super teles. I get that you're annoyed, and far be it from me to tell you not to be, but there is a compatibility cycle for all electronic products. I've had printers become obsolete when when buying new computers, and it's much the same thing. This doesn't seem to be too different from what other manufacturers do. Does anyone know how old the lenses are that are no longer supported by the new TC? 10 years?

As you say in the prior post, this may be the best sign yet that a revamped 300 f/4 is on the horizon.

I would hardly call camera lenses, standard electronics. If Nikon one day released an F mount body that dropped support for an AF-D lens that you loved, I bet you'd be pissed off too.

dissent

@ tc88 - thanks for posting the link to the compatibility info. I was looking for it right after I saw the announcement but my fumble fingers could not perform the correct google-fu. Alright then, this is the final countdown.

proudgeek

^^Probably. But in this case, Nikon isn't preventing you from using the lens, it's preventing you from pairing the lens with a new product. Maybe it's meant to drive users out of AF-D lenses, or maybe there are engineering reasons. I'm not defending Nikon, just adding a comparison.

PB_PM

I understand the comparison. I guess it irks me because Nikon is always promoting the fact that the mount supports old lenses.

Perhaps Nikon will keep the TC14EII in production until all the older AF-I and AF-S lenses that are not supported are replaced?

manhattanboy

Perhaps Nikon will keep the TC14EII in production until all the older AF-I and AF-S lenses that are not supported are replaced?

They could have easily added the extra pins to transmit the information from the lens to the TC to the camera, but they chose not to. So will they have to continue producing the TC1.4 II? They will almost have to as there are way too many lenses that are now not compatible. I don't quite understand what they are doing, as they could have D/C'd production completely had they just put the pins in. What they are doing for other products also makes no sense. Why are they continuing to sell the J1 even though there is a J2, J3, and a J4 already! That means they also have to keep parts for all these things!

I haven't used a TC on the 300 f4 as the ISO is already high enough without it. Its an amazingly sharp lens. I would love a new DO 300 f4 but after seeing these lens price increases it surely will be 4K or greater. I'd rather have a new sensor tech'd body than drop 4K on a lens for marginal increases in sharpness compared to the last version.

Msmoto

As the 300mm f/4 is about 14 years old and due an update, my guess is that the new TC-14EIII will be compatible with the new version. I do not see the incompatibility issues so much as Nikon trying to squeeze its customers but more in terms of new product development and to obtain the highest IQ the new products simply do not work with some of the older designs.

tc88

In my opinion, that’s a pure business decision since I don’t see technical advances that would conflict with the previous configuration. Any cost reduction will also be very minimum. The fact of matter is that there is no more growth in this industry. So to continue making money, Nikon wants to shorten the refresh cycle.

Regarding comparison to electronics, yes, people may upgrade their TV after 5 years and Nikon would love you to do the same with your 70-200. But are they really comparable? The performance/price ratio of electronics rises a lot over time which entices people to upgrade. On lens, lately every rev brings 30% price hike with small improvements such that the used prices actually creep up after the new lens introduction. That’s a clear indication that performance/price ratio actually goes down with each rev and we are not getting benefit from technical advances.

Thus Nikon’s approach is to cut off customers’ other choices. Actually my biggest takeaway on this is what’s happening the last couple of years is the the norm going forward. Those are not anomalies and anyone who thinks Nikon is going to learn its lessons and change its attitude towards customers is living in a pipe dream.

manhattanboy

As the 300mm f/4 is about 14 years old and due an update, my guess is that the new TC-14EIII will be compatible with the new version. I do not see the incompatibility issues so much as Nikon trying to squeeze its customers but more in terms of new product development and to obtain the highest IQ the new products simply do not work with some of the older designs.

Nikon could have sold a LOT more TC's had they just put the pins in. The list of people who have one of the compatible lenses is much less than if they would have retained backwards capability. I see it as Nikon's loss, and it can now be exploited by a third party to step in and fulfill a needs gap.
The IQ on the 300 f4 is pretty darn good, probably better than 90% of the lenses Nikon currently makes. There is room for improvement no doubt, but most people aren't complaining about the sharpness, its the lack of VR.

In my opinion, that’s a pure business decision since I don’t see technical advances that would conflict with the previous configuration. Any cost reduction will also be very minimum. The fact of matter is that there is no more growth in this industry. So to continue making money, Nikon wants to shorten the refresh cycle.
[ ]
Thus Nikon’s approach is to cut off customers’ other choices.

Well said.

Galerita

I wonder if Nikon will continue to make the TC-14E II. The TC-20E III has almost the same list of compatible lenses as the TC-20E II. The is NOT the case with the change from TC-14E II to III. Nikon would be shooting themselves in the foot to withdraw the TC-14E II while they still make lenses the work with the TC-14E II but not the TC-14E III.

Galerita

I've just realised that the only lens still in production that is compatible with the TC-14E II and not the III is the AF-S 300 f4.

On the other hand Nikon has kept equivalent lenses on the market when newer but much more expensive equivalents have been introduced. Examples are the AF 80-200 f2.8 and 70-200 f2.8 VR then VR II, and recently the original 80-400 f4.5-5.6 and new VR version. Maybe they'll keep the old AF-S 300 f4 and a new VR version, much like Canon does. that's the main game: competition with Canon.

And sales of the AF-S 300 f4 probably exceed the 200f2, 300f2.8, 400f2.8, 500f4, 600f4, 800f5.6 and 200-400f4 combined. The 300f4 is a prosumer lens. The others are all definitively pro-lenses. I don't think they can afford to muck up the change-over, which is why the lenses like the 80-200 f2.8 and original 80-400 f4.5-5.6D remain in production.

dissent

Well, I did my part to try to prop up the leaky ship Nikon. The 300 f/4D kit is on the way.

Nik0n2011

got mine sometimes ago
and loving it (with tc14ii)

at this point i dont care anymore
the new 400 2.8 costs +3k more on the previous version.
fluorite etc will double the price of the new version whenever it will be out (vr, fluorite, do, ketchup)
might be a scary price and considering Nikon finances are looking bad, they might pretend new lenses to cover their wallets.

will be checking the situation in 6-7-10 years

adamz

IMHO, the lack of N300/4 af-s on the TC14eiii is just a typo. Don't see a reason why it would not work.
As for using the N300/4 with TC. I went with all that are on the market and my findings are as follow:
- TC14eII - great combo, it's my to go combo with D800. almost glued in AF is fast, pictures sharp wide open.
- TC17eII - acceptable results when stopped down to F8. was using it wide open I I wasn't too happy with the results. AF works nice only when there's plenty of light.
- TC20eII - forget about it. Sluggish. Needs plenty of light. Image quality is visibly degraded on D800, not so much on D3s. I would certainly not recommend this combo unless you need documentary pictures.
- TC20eIII - visibly better than TC20eII. Slightly faster AF - comparable to TC17eII. I would say that the results are acceptable, once you step it down to f11.

as for new 300/4 vr. I wouldn't expect it to be cheaper than 3k. though once released, it will be a killer lens - light and fast enough on current high end bodies.

Photobug

I bet that their will be a lot of TC14EII posted on eBay. I would go that route if you want to save money.

manhattanboy

IMHO, the lack of N300/4 af-s on the TC14eiii is just a typo. Don't see a reason why it would not work.

The new TC14 does is missing pins needed to send the information from older lenses like the 300 f4 to the camera. This is why it kind of sucks. Nikon could have put the pins in and then it would have worked.

Likely a new 300 f4 is on the way, but as @Galerita pointed out, the 300 f4 probably outsells all other tele exotics combined. Nikon wonders why their stock is in free fall? Anti-consumer moves like this new TC is not helping IMHO.

adamz

I see the difference: 8 vs 10 pins, but I doubt this will make the TC14eIII unusable with N300/4, will confirm it as soon as I get my hand on the new TC14.

PB_PM

Since the new TC doesn't have a mechanic link to the AI metering tab on the AF-S 300mm F4, I'm not sure how it could work, even if the pins were there.

manhattanboy

Just as a PSA to fellow Nikon shooters interested in the 300 f4:
The link to the refurb lenses from the main page (which goes to the authorized dealer Cameta camera), has the 300 f4 refurbished in stock.

dissent

I am now the proud owner of a 300 f/4D.

"I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar!"

Photobug

I am now the proud owner of a 300 f/4D.

"I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar!"

Excellent. Please post some photos on PAD. Contgrats on the new lens.

dissent

So, no fluorine love for the 300/4, huh?

http://nikonrumors.com/2014/06/03/nikon-to-upgrade-their-remaining-high-end-tele-lenses-with-fluorine-coating.aspx/

{sigh} Would be interesting to see, anyways. Even if I'm not chomping at the bit for the upgrade anymore.

manhattanboy

So, no fluorine love for the 300/4, huh?

http://nikonrumors.com/2014/06/03/nikon-to-upgrade-their-remaining-high-end-tele-lenses-with-fluorine-coating.aspx/

{sigh} Would be interesting to see, anyways. Even if I'm not chomping at the bit for the upgrade anymore.

There is generally no love for the 300 f4 AF-S from Nikon at all. :-S

Don't really care at this point anymore though. I would much rather have VR over flourine, but if it blows up the size and weight of the lens then I'll stick with the old one.