300 mm f4

manhattanboy

im pulling the trigger because of you PB
15 days and i shall have it

You wont regret it.

I should have mine Wednesday assuming no hassles with the delivery folks.
Still debating about a TC. The slightly extra reach would be nice as it's not really 300 versus 420, its 600 versus 840 for me shooting in 1.3x crop mode...

PB_PM

The TC does add range, just keep in mind that it will slow down auto focus a bit. In good light the TC is fine, but as soon as it starts to drop off, or you target a low contrast subject be ready for focus hunting.

Also, make good use of the 300mm F4's focus limiter switch! I left mine in the 3m-infinity position most of the time when shooting birds and wildlife. Using that feature reduces hunting, and increases the chance that the camera will recover when it does.

Golf007sd

+1 to what PB_PM has said.

Nik0n2011

im considering also in the future to add this 300 f4 to a :

FT-1 + V1 (or 2 or 3)

here's a sample (with 70-300 45 56 VR)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thekrankis/12386412635/

would i have problems not having VR (current 300f4) reaching
700/1000mm ?

Juergen

im considering also in the future to add this 300 f4 to a :



would i have problems not having VR (current 300f4) reaching
700/1000mm ?

No, you won't. I am using the 600 f/4 with the J2 and mostly I keep VR off because I am using a tripod or monopod and/or fast enough shutter speed.
No worries.

Jürgen

Nik0n2011

interesting ty

Nik0n2011

blog

'Nikon is also rumored to announce a new 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 VR zoom for the Nikon 1 system. The new lens will feature very advanced optics with SuperED glass and Nano coating. The official announcement t is expected this month.'

i almost jumped for happiness-madness-sadness

Nik0n2011

/me sings : 'it's on the wayyy it's on my wayyyy'
few hours more.

Nik0n2011

new question from me

TC 2.0 III + 300f4 + 24/36 MP Camera ?

i have seen that there are a lot of reports about the tc2.0III about being 'less sharp'
i wonder if this TC paired with the 300 f4 paired with a 24/36 MP camera (higher pixel density)
would (by resizing(not cropping) a bit) reduce this 'softness effect' that seems clear at '16 minus' MP sensors ?

let's imagine an animal that fullfills the whole frame (so not only a tiny bird in the centre of the frame)
i imagine that shrinking what would be a 1-2 millimiters unsharp border of a subject would become 0-less than 1 ?


a d4 while being the top of cameras is 16mp while the d800 is 20mp more and old cameras are 12mp

Nik0n2011

this guy

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31715949@N00/11160959663/

with a d800e but i dont know if he's using a tc at all

either it was
1) extremely far
2) poor conditions
3) high mp doesnt matter
4) technique ?

manhattanboy

I just got mine. Love the look surprisingly. It looks like a small lens because of the narrow attachment and because the hood looks like its a hood attached to a smaller lens.
I will not be buying a TC to pair it with until I gain more experience with it. At dusk I am getting iso's over 1000 to be able to shoot 1/1000, which is needed for sharpness hand held. I will see how many stops I get over f4 using 1/1000 in daylight before adding a TC.
Also the focus limiter for me is more like 15+ feet onward not 10. It's actually better for me but I thought someone might want to know.

dcanning

Rumors seem to have slowed down for the new VR version. Anyone heard further. Lens prices are rising here in Canada very soon.

manhattanboy

i have seen that there are a lot of reports about the tc2.0III about being 'less sharp'
i wonder if this TC paired with the 300 f4 paired with a 24/36 MP camera (higher pixel density)
would (by resizing(not cropping) a bit) reduce this 'softness effect' that seems clear at '16 minus' MP sensors ?

Sensors that are larger with less pixels are more tolerant of poor lens conditions than higher res, smaller sensors with smaller pixels. This is probably why there was a host of complaints when the D800 came out and everyone now found they needed better FX lenses. I pixel peep all the time, but my time shooting with high res point and shoots tells me that the image quality does look good when resized down...but most of the time I want the opposite with the image blown up.

Nikon's current high MP crop sensors are even more demanding than the D800. That is part of the reason I upgraded to the 300 f/4 is that I need near razor sharp focus in the center of the frame to use in 1.3 crop mode on the 7100. Most of the MTF curves for all decently priced lenses demonstrate significant loss in contrast and sharpness as you go out into the frame like the 70-300 AF-S


It is likely that the 300 f/4 also loses sharpness throughout a DX frame, but the contrast looks to hold its own.


I debated whether I should just buy the new 80-400 as its optics are dramatically improved at the tele end, and the bokeh for the zoom should now be superior to the 300 f/4.


In the end two things really were helpful. One is the focus chatter issue of the zooms. Even the new 80-400 is claimed to have focus chatter. This drives me bananas and is probably the reason I will be hesitant to use a TC on the 300 f/4. The other issue was frankly size and weight. I want something light and short and if I ever defect to a Canon crop sensor, something like the 400 DO will be high on my list.

UPDATE:
Spent some time checking minimum shutter speed shooting license plates a half a mile away. I think I am going to forgo a TC as for me I need at least 1/1600 to get sharp results with the bare lens.
I found a thread on the minimum shutter speed that I thought was interesting:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3612702

The results at 1/1000 look good and if I did not have the poor man's outdoor studio test (e.g. how far can you go and still read the license plates in zoomed images) I would say that 1/1000 looked good, however, is it clear that 1/1,600-1,2000 is really needed for maximal sharpness without VR at least for the very high pixel density D7100. It is probably slower for larger pixel sensors like the 7000.

Nik0n2011

it's here ! i added the hoya filter and tc14eii (mostly as back cap)
woho!


thank you manhattan, very useful post you made

PB_PM

The results at 1/1000 look good and if I did not have the poor man's outdoor studio test (e.g. how far can you go and still read the license plates in zoomed images) I would say that 1/1000 looked good, however, is it clear that 1/1,600-1,2000 is really needed for maximal sharpness without VR at least for the very high pixel density D7100. It is probably slower for larger pixel sensors like the 7000.

I'm guessing that you are hand holding? If you want to up your keeper rate at longer shutter speeds a tripod or monopod are required. I have tack sharp images at 1/200s with the 300mm F4 and the TC 14E 1.4x, from a tripod.


Large Version

manhattanboy

Used the 300 f4 this weekend a bunch.

Just wondering what everyone's keeper rate was. Ended up going with 1/2000 for the shutter speed (not a problem as ISO is still 100 at f4), but still had a bunch of soft shots. About a quarter of the shots were crisp, but about 3/4ths were off. I'm used to a higher keeper rate with VR lenses although my non-VR primes also have a fairly low keeper rate (although not as bad as that). Is this about what everyone else gets or do I need to limit the autofocus more, like maybe down to a center bunch (AF-C dynamic 9 points) from AF-C dynamic 51 points? I don't think it was a hunt issue as there were crisp shots even at dusk. I thought at first it could be a calibration issue (e.g. back focus) because the selected point is not sharp on many shots. But the photos in general look soft and sometimes the selected point is crisp. I will do some focus testing when I get the chance later, just difficult to do with a 300mm indoors.

as an aside....I am enjoying the "real" 300 focal length. It feels longer than the zooms. Also DXO has lens correction data for the 300 f4 even though they don't list it on their website, which was a nice surprise.

PB_PM

Limit dynamic to 9 points for the best results. I hardly ever use 51 point dynamic, because non-cross type sensors are terrible for moving subjects.

manhattanboy

Limit dynamic to 9 points for the best results. I hardly ever use 51 point dynamic, because non-cross type sensors are terrible for moving subjects.

9 Points was a little restrictive, but I tried 21 points (which in the center is 15 cross and 6 line) and setting up U1 to ensure 1/2000 and f5.6. All together tripled my keeper rate! Thanks for your help!

dcanning

Well I finally bought the bullet. Have not been out yet with it but looking forward to it. Had to spring now as Canadian prices go up a lot at the end of the month, due to the Canadian dollar. And a new VR version would really reduce my ability to buy this lens.

manhattanboy

Well I finally bought the bullet. Have not been out yet with it but looking forward to it. Had to spring now as Canadian prices go up a lot at the end of the month, due to the Canadian dollar. And a new VR version would really reduce my ability to buy this lens.

In the sun VR is not needed, just keep your shutter speeds up. In low light or with a tele that reduces the light, VR is likely needed to help get crisp shots as your shutter speed comes down to keep your ISO down. But even with the sun setting, there is enough light to get great shots at low ISO. In low light, however, I would still shoot FF with a 2.8 zoom and forgo the f4 attached to my crop sensor.

The only other tips besides a super fast shutter speed, is that you either have to want the thin DOF at f4 or stop it down a little to get what you want in a shot to be in focus. Also, limiting Af to mostly cross seemed to help.
Enjoy and report back on your experience.

Galerita

Hi guys, I'm new here, so be gentle
I have a 23 year old non-AFS Nikon 300mm f/4 IF-ED, which I use with a Tamron SP 2x teleconverter for bird photography here in Australia - see Lance B's beautiful bird photography for examples of what's available. The lens is great. The TC images are not ideal, but at f5.6-f8 are better than the non-TC images magnified.

I want to update to either the current 300 AFS f4 or new VR version, but which? I'm a keen follower Photography Life and I know that the AFS 300 f4 works with the TC-14E II, but average with the TC17 and poor with the TC20 in terms of sharpness & contrast.

I would put up with the extra cost of a VR 300mm if it worked with a TC-20. That would be a real improvement. Otherwise I would rather upgrade to a AFS 300mm f4 plus TC-14E II combo, since VR is not important for birds - I use a gimbal head and high shutter speeds are needed anyway.

My question: Does anyone have any thoughts on whether a new VR 300mm f/4 would be SHARP on a TC-20E III on my D610? I know it will focus - the current combo does OK - but will it be sharp?

Photobug

Hi Galerita, welcome to NRF. Run a search on the 300 VR & TC-20. Search box is in the upper right corner below the header bar.

There has been discussions on the 300 F4 and the 300 VR lens. If you can afford it, go for the faster 300mm lens otherwise go for the 300mm F4. Optically both are good.

dissent

Well, all I can say is, since I am about to pull the trigger on the 300 f/4 + 1.4 TC combo (as soon as it comes back in stock at B&H or Adorama), I fully expect that within a month or two Nikon will THEN come out with the 300 f/4 with VR upgrade announcement. It won't really bother me though (too much) 'cause I rented the combo last year and got some results with it that I was pretty happy with, so I won't be hesitating.

Wouldn't mind having the VR, or the f/2.8, but the 2.8 unit is just out of my price range at the moment. Lessee, now where were those unchecked lottery tickets ...

tcole1983

@galerita...since there is no new 300 f4 vr and no one has any idea when there will be you could be waiting a while still. I don't think anyone can know how the updated vr version would perform but the current lens is super sharp. I love mine. I never use a telecoverter so I can't comment on that, but I think light loss is the biggest problem and not necessarily sharpness. I really have no idea though. I should try my friends 1.7tc next time he is around.

Without a telecoverter I think it is an awesome lens and I would buy it again in a heartbeat. Thom Hogan did a review on his page of the lens and has a shot with the 1.7 tc on it if you want to check it out.

Galerita

Thanks @tcole1983,
I little more thought and I should have come to the same conclusion. I guess I was asking out of wishful thinking

A favourite site of mine is Photography Life , especially Nasim's reviews . He's done a thorough review on the current AF-S 300mm f4 , including its performance with the current TC-14, TC-17 and TC-20 and comparisons with the 80-400 VR, 200-400 f4G VRII and 70-200 f2.8 VRII (with TC) SEE PAGE 4 (How do I html this?). This is the best source of information short of a sorely missing DxOMark on the AF-S 300mm f4.