Nikon Df General Discussion

Photobug

Today I had the opportunity to play with the new Nikon Df and the new 50mm F1.8G retro lens. I was at a camera expo with representatives from Nikon, Canon, Sony, and Tamron. My impressions are based upon just over 30 minutes of shooting the Df with the 58mm lens and a 24-70 F2.8 lens. The Nikon representative for our area answered a few questions and provided feedback on what others are saying, and several reviews that have been published. He also confirmed that they are on back order in Japan but available in the USA. Their big concern is if sales takes off in the USA they will go on back order and it could take six months to catch up to demand.

First Impressions
I like the feel; it felt like an old friend was in my hands. Having owned Nikon SLR’s since 1968 the old feel of SLR’s was excellent. Size and weight are good for my medium size hands. As others have commented, it’s lighter than I expected. Now that is a good thing.

Nice feel for the shutter release and ergonomically nicely located. In checking out the dials, knobs, and buttons their location all made logical since. I noticed a slight change to the shape of the buttons down the left rear of the back next to the LCD screen. It’s different than the D7100, D800, and D4 but not in a bad way, just different...more flatter. Did not like the ugly black/white graphics on the bracket button above the lens release button. In my opinion, it looked cheap and could wear out quickly. The front dial did not take too long to get use to; I still prefer the normal front dial that rotates left to right and protrudes from the body but understand why they turned it to a vertical dial. Yes it is a little stiff to turn but was not an issue with me. If it turned to easy then your setting would change.

The first 3 pictures they were out of focus and then I realized that the AF system was not working and adjusting the lens, someone had set it to back focus to work with the AF ON button. Jumped into the familiar menus and changed it to the shutter button.

All the knobs turned nicely and no complaints from me about the pressure to turn them. Shooting vertically or horizontally was easy and the shutter release sounded nice. Viewfinder size was excellent, as most full frame DSLRs.

Love the silver ring around the 50mm F/1.8G lens. The Nikon representative was quick to point out the high DXO results and it’s the best normal lens they have made. Too expensive for me, I can almost get a 24-70mm for that price.

Second Impressions
After taking over 50 pictures I switched lens to the 24-70mm F2.8 and took another 30 to 40 shots in both vertical and horizontal orientation. Many times I was able to adjust the knobs without reviewing the body from my eye. Nice ergonomics. I like the lighter weight. The sales representative had the new Df neck strap attached and for once, it does not scream NIKON, and the Df was in nice grey lettering.

See next message for final assessment.

Photobug

Final assessment
I really liked the Df. It would make an excellent street camera due to its smaller size than a D800 or D4 and interesting size comparison to the D610. The retro lens is nice but. I looked at the 58mm 1.4G lens, I can’t justify the cost difference between it and the 50mm F1.4 D lens. I would put the 50mm 1.8D lens on the body for a prime and forget the nice silver ring.

The weight distribution with the 58mm lens was excellent and felt good in my hands. With the 24-70mm F2.8 it was front heavy but was not really an issue.

If I had lots of money, I would buy two bodies and one 58mm lens and store one of the bodies and lens for resale in 10 years. The Nikon representative said they expect a lot of buyers will be doing the same thing. The shutter count would be whatever came out of the factory and should command a nice profit. The other Df body I would use a few times to see if it fits my needs for a FF body. I don’t need a camera body to impress my friends and would probably sell it in a year. I have to admit, back in the day I loved making all the on camera adjustments and today much prefer shooting in aperture priority mode with the buttons available to make any adjustments to obtain the image I want. Nikon can have their “Pure Photography” but I am now a photographer of the present.

I think it was a cool idea to release a retro full frame body. It definitely does not need video capability as several others commented when I was playing with the D800 and D4. The Df, however, is not for me and I would not buy it. The price is too close to a D800. The Df is for a special niche market with a low sales distribution. When I buy a FF body it must have buttons and dials in a similar location to my other body, in this case a D7100. I want to be able to switch between them and not have to stop and think. A larger body like the D800 is fine since I shot the D300 for almost 6 years.

I told the Nikon sales representative that the only issue I had with the camera was the price. He acknowledge that was the common feedback from the majority of lookers. He said that the D4 EXCEEDS and sensor is what is driving the high price and the expected lower sales volume. We briefly discussed the lens price and his comment was it follows the price model for low volume lens; i.e. 80-400mm, 500mm, etc.

For my budget and needs, it’s not the camera for me. It maybe the FF DSLR for you and I recommend that everyone go to your local dealers and check out the latest retro tool.

Ade

I am considering the Df.. but one of the ways I shoot is with the little pop up flash as a CLS master to control my SB800 off camera. What options do I have now that the Df does not have that handy little popup CLS master?

Other than buying another master flash, you can get the SU-800 (around $230) or if you're courageous, its Chinese clone. Unfortunately the SB-300 mentioned above cannot function as a master or remote flash.

heartyfisher

Heartyfisher, regarding a flash since there is no pop up flash on the Df. In talking with a Nikon Representative today he told me the SB400 has been discontinued and he had the new SB300 on the D4 and we switched it to the Df. I thought it looked good on that body.

Just had a look at the SB300.. looks good but I think it does not have the CLS commander capability that I need to control my main off camera flash..

Found a possible solution with the Nikon SU800 but a SB300 with commander would have been perfect ..

heartyfisher

I am considering the Df.. but one of the ways I shoot is with the little pop up flash as a CLS master to control my SB800 off camera. What options do I have now that the Df does not have that handy little popup CLS master?

Other than buying another master flash, you can get the SU-800 (around $230) or if you're courageous, its Chinese clone. Unfortunately the SB-300 mentioned above cannot function as a master or remote flash.

Exactly what I was thinking ;-) LOL

WestEndBoy

Photobug said:
Love the silver ring around the 58mm F/1.8 lens. The Nikon representative was quick to point out the high DXO results and it’s the best normal lens they have made. I assume you mean the 1.4G?

If so, I am not sure why the Nikon rep is bragging about DXO results. With a D800, the overall scores were:

-58mm 1.4G: 28
-85mm 1.4G: 40
-50mm 1.4G: 32

I DO appreciate that specs are only part of the story, I just can't understand why the Nikon rep is boasting about this? I am wondering if I should be disappointed that the cheap Chinese made 50mm (which is on my camera 80% of the time) scores better. Why couldn't they have made it as good as the 85mm 1.4G, which also has no coma? The price is the same and it is a "closer to normal" focal length. The only place where it outclasses the other two on the DXO test is Chromatic Abberation, which I acknowledge might be the most important of the 5 listed specs.

There are other factors to consider such as Bokeh and just how the images "look" (the most important test). But I am wondering........

Ironheart

I thought the kit lens with silver ring was a 50mm f/1.8, not a 58mm.

WestEndBoy

Yeah Ironheart, I thought he might be talking about that one too, but made a guess and commented accordingly.

Photobug

Darn, I got that all messed up. They had the 50mm F1.8G with the silver ring on the Df and that was the reference about the quality of the lens. Agree, the DXO chart is only part of the decision, you got to look at the image for color and the Bokeh.

After all the negative reviews on the 58mm 1.4G, I don't know who will buy this lens. I did not raise that question with the representative.

WestEndBoy

I just tried out the new 58mm on a DF with a Nikon rep. The Bokeh looked very good, but hard to tell in that environment. Despite the weak specs and reviews, this experience makes me want to investigate further. Maybe take some controlled shots with the 58 compared to my 85 and 50.

I know that we often complain about sharpness, but most real world sharpness issues are us shooters, not our equipment. If the 58 truly excels at Bokeh in a way that the 50mm 1.4G does not, it could be worth it.

So I am keeping an open mind.

mikep

the 2 reasons i could never live with a d600 were the lack of the second AF/AE lock button by the right thumb, and that AF system ....

im glad to see nikon put that button on the DF ... but we are still left with that AF; the reason i will never buy a DF

javabeans_NR

Df was supposed to be a simple, back to the basic, no-clutter FA/FM type camera. Browsing through comments and user manual it seems the camera is far from being back to the basics rather has redundant control buttons.

Can someone explain why do we need "PSAM" dial? Cannot this functionality being implemented like in the old FA? A setting "A" on the exposure dial and a setting "A" for the aperture will probably have done it. Just less clutter like the advertisement suggested.

Ade

The short answer is to accommodate the drive modes (S, CL, CH, Timer, etc.) which weren't present in the FA. So either PSAM gets its own dial or S,CL, CH, etc., needs a dial.

javabeans_NR

The two features do not compete with each other. Also "S,CL,CH,Timer" has already its own place on the top plate. What I am suggesting is just sqeezing an "A" on the timer dial.

Ade

It's not enough to just put A on the dial. You'd still have to accommodate for the "P" and "M" modes along with the new S, CL,CH drive modes.

In the old FA, PSAM was an another rotary dial collocated with the shutter dial, not just "A" squeezed into the dial as you are suggesting. Maybe you're thinking instead of the F3? The difference is the F3 didn't have shutter priority nor program modes, just A and full-manual.

javabeans_NR

An "A" on the exposure dial AND an "A" for aperture (the non G lenses have it already; is the highest aperture in "orange"). Here how it works (like FA or other retro cameras - Look at Fuji XE, Pro, etc..):

P mode: A/A (Exposure/Aperture)
A mode: A/-
S mode: -/A
M mode: -/-

Again the exposure modes (PASM) and the drive modes (S, CL,CH,...) are independent of eacj other. And in any case the drive mode is already present on the top plate and doesn't need to be changed or adaplted to a different PASM implementation.

Ade

That's not how it works on the FA or any other retro Nikon body.

Here's the top plate of the FA, notice the PSAM modes clearly implemented as a separate dial:


Nikon FA, wikimedia commons

On Fuji it's possible because every lens has an extra A setting in addition to the aperture numbers. On Nikon cameras it's not possible to re-use the "orange" highest aperture setting because there would be no way to distinguish your intention (between if you wanted auto aperture OR if you actually wanted to use the highest aperture setting).

javabeans_NR

Right, it was a typo: What I had in mind was FE (or like you pointed out F3). There the A is on exposure dial on those cameras. For aperture a small swich (e.g. on front dial) will do it when the lens is in "orange" spot or the lens' aperture ring when is out of the "orange" spot.
I am not trying to teach the proffesionals at Nikon how to design a camera; it is just a possible idea of how reduce the clutter and make its control simpler without controls duplication.

Ade

Just wondering… suppose Nikon really followed the simplicity of the FE/F3 and only equipped the Df with manual & aperture priority modes (no "P" or "S" modes at all). Would that have hurt Df sales, or would it conversely increase the mystique of the Df as a "pure photography" camera?

I'm still of the opinion that Nikon "took the easy way out" with the Df to get on the retro bandwagon, instead of making more courageous design decisions to really set the camera apart.

PB_PM

I don't think it would have hurt the Df at all to loose the P or S. I cannot recall the last time I used either.

heartyfisher

Unlike what seems to be most people here I live in "P" mode. No P mode would be very inconvenient for me.

PB_PM

If you are going to use P mode you might as well just use scene modes.

WestEndBoy

Well......scene mode adjusts picture control while P mode only effects exposure. However, I hear your sentiment. But Heartyfisher may want to use the DF on a regular basis as someone might want to use a D800 in P Mode but have the ability to immerse himself in the "DF Experience" when it suits him.......so P mode as a default and "M Mode" when he "wants to hold it in his hands again".

spraynpray

Just wondering… suppose Nikon really followed the simplicity of the FE/F3 and only equipped the Df with manual & aperture priority modes (no "P" or "S" modes at all). Would that have hurt Df sales, or would it conversely increase the mystique of the Df as a "pure photography" camera?

I'm still of the opinion that Nikon "took the easy way out" with the Df to get on the retro bandwagon, instead of making more courageous design decisions to really set the camera apart.

Was going to post exactly the same point myself.

I don't think it would have hurt the Df at all to loose the P or S. I cannot recall the last time I used either.

Absolutely - or even just manual mode. Strip it right down. Most of us started with manual only, the rest is just fluff IMHO.

Waaay too brave. Probably very silly too. Most DF's will prolly be sold to image conscious shooters who wouldn't be able to cope with only M.

bland

Unlike what seems to be most people here I live in "P" mode. No P mode would be very inconvenient for me.

I like the P Mode when using flash. I wouldn't have bought the Df if it didn't have it, for that reason.