D300s Successor-D400, what and when

PB_PM

I agree with @donaldegose here. I have a D700 and D300, they serve different purpose and are used for different types of shots. A D800 and D400 would be a suitable upgrade path for many people.

TaoTeJared

@SquamishPhoto - you seriously need to stop taking everything so personal. No one comes here to attack you or your shooting, nor to be attacked by you. Your vicious comments are uncalled for.

Donald is correct, very few people these days shoot to print anything over a 8x10, and many who do, would prefer FX but settle for DX if they choose not to mortgage their house. You don't need to attack someone just because you are in the small group of people who do print larger. It would be just sufficient to state that DX can print large just fine, with care to the shot, post, and printing.

I own a D800 as well, but I would like to pick up a second back-up body and I am interested in the D400 because it generally shares the same accessories, same layout, same build quality, and moving from body to body is less of a learning curve. If it came in a D4-mini then I would pick it up for sure as the extra reach would be nice for sports and wildlife, if not, then I may just go for a D600 or even a 35mm lens/body like the Sony RX1 or Fuji X100s and do what I have now which works really well.

SquamishPhoto

@SquamishPhoto - you seriously need to stop taking everything so personal. No one comes here to attack you or your shooting, nor to be attacked by you. Your vicious comments are uncalled for.

Vicious? Please don't embellish so much. And why exactly do I need to have you chime in on this?

ricochet

I don't "dream" of going FX. I want a DX with a better buffer, more robust body than the D7000 or and higher fps than the D800. "Reach" is a very real and valuable asset for those of us that shoot wildlife. With the same lens we get a frame filling shot of the subject from a greater distance than with FX. Its pretty much that simple. Before someone says, "Just get closer", its not that easy. Many wild animals tend to move away when approached by humans, some animals, like crocs and other big predators, are dangerous to get close to, and I personally prefer my shots to show animals going on about their daily lives, not reacting to my presence. Animal interaction can be fast and unpredictable, so a high fps rate is desirable. I'm glad some of you have a camera that meets all of your needs, my frustration is that Nikon has different cameras with the features I want, they just don't put all those desired features in one camera. I want a DX D400 if its anything close to the majority's guesses on this forum.
The fact that the rumblings of a 7d Mark II are getting louder makes me more optimistic that Nikon will bring out a competitive crop camera. I hope it happens soon before this thread gets any more confrontational.

Marktim

No pro DX body. Because no truely pro lenses. Nikon message is very clear.

donaldejose

Yes Marktim, you do raise a very real concern which Thom Hogan has been talking about for years. Where is the DX equivalent to the "holy trio" and other "pro" lenses? However, that isn't an impediment to those seeking primarily more reach because using existing FX "pro" glass provides even more additional reach.

PB_PM

There is no reason to make more "pro" DX lenses. The currently available FX lenses, and third party alternatives, cover almost any possible needs a pro DX user might have. Nikon can hardly keep up with the demand on high end lenses already, so adding an additional pro DX line would only make matters worse.

Msmoto

Maybe we should beat up on Nikon for awhile. After all, they are the ones not following their own schedule for updates if I remember by TTJ's timeline on the old forum.

And, when we are waiting for a D400, which has been predicted by many for last year, we do become a bit irritable. If we all recognize this, maybe we will try to avoid taking it out on each other.

Now, if we can find a Nikon rep...... [-O<

PB_PM

I talked to a Nikon rep today, but that was at the repair depot, so they know about as much as we do.

spraynpray

Hey Donald - no DX pro lenses, D400 way over due, it all makes sense now - the D400 is going to be mirrorless and released with a dedicated trinity of lenses! $-)

PB_PM

Yup, the new line will be called AX, with a new N-Mount. N for NEW! The AX sensor will be FX, DX, and CX. Of course if you choose FX, there will be two small boxes, one for the DX crop and one for the CX crop. Why? It will use three sensors, one for each size of course! Oh, and the max ISO will be 1,000,000, NATIVE!!! It will blow the D4/D800 etc out of the water! How many MP you ask? 100MP! Why? Because at that size you cannot even see the noise at 100%!!!

donaldejose

) ) )

Concerning a "pro" DX lenses set let me make this suggestion: Tokina 11-16 2.8 for wide angle, Nikon 16-35 f4 for wide to normal, a Nikon 50mm normal (either f1.8 or f1.4) for a 75mm portrait lens and Nikon 70-200 f4 (because it is smaller and lighter than the f2.8 version) for telephoto. I would think the quality of these lenses would be sufficient for most uses to which a DX sensor will be put. Yes, you are limited to f4 in the wide to normal and telephoto zooms. But if your low light work can be done with the 50mm, you should be able to get by with f4 for other uses. This set is not ideal but it has the advantage of being available now. Other people may have different suggestions.

chrisjakes

I heard that they are releasing the D400 with a new 18-400 2.8 lens that will be a free upgrade for anyone that bought the D7000 within the last month...........

but seriously. I joined this community b/c i thought people were nice and helpful (which you are) but sometimes it gets a little catty in here for adults..... Hopefully everyone can keep opinions and advice directed towards the "helpful" side of things

Msmoto

@ chrisjakes

Yup, but if we can just ignore the cats, there is occasionally some useful material. The person who started this thread should have known better. On the old forum it showed the same frustration of Nikon's lack of a product which a lot of folks want. And, I really think what we see now is simply a lot of frustration. No one really has any idea what the D400 will be in either name or specs.

heartyfisher

Just regarding printing large.. any one remember seeing this.. D700 12 MB image printed and displayed on the side of a building 22 meters high? 12MB is all that is needed..


go to the end to see the pictures :-)

PB_PM

That depends on the viewing distance at which you want your images to look sharp. Billboard prints are totally different, and use low DPI ratings compared to something you hang on your wall and view from 10-30 feet away.

Msmoto

@ heartyfisher

Agree, but the size of the sensor may be more important than the actual pixels. My guess is that a D700 would outperform a D7000.

heartyfisher

No pro DX body. Because no truely pro lenses. Nikon message is very clear.

Err .. all the pro fx lenses are available to dx users .. what are you talking about ? the wide end ? there are several dedicated wide dx lenses .. both from nikon and third party..

Additionally some/most "pro" lenses perform better on DX due to the "sweet spot" eg the 70-200 which has a slight vignetting on FX

heartyfisher

@ heartyfisher

Agree, but the size of the sensor may be more important than the actual pixels. My guess is that a D700 would outperform a D7000.

Would be nice to see a "shootout"! My guess is that the D7000 at base ISO will outperform the D700 due to the better DR and slightly higher MP.

PS: Found this ..
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Publications/DxOMark-Reviews/DxOMark-review-for-APS-C-camera-2010-who-takes-the-lead/Case-Study-D90-vs-D7000-vs-D700

TaoTeJared

No pro DX body. Because no truely pro lenses. Nikon message is very clear.

Err .. all the pro fx lenses are available to dx users .. what are you talking about ? the wide end ? there are several dedicated wide dx lenses .. both from nikon and third party..

Additionally some/most "pro" lenses perform better on DX due to the "sweet spot" eg the 70-200 which has a slight vignetting on FX

I don't get that argument as there is no DX pro glass either. The only thing that is possibly missing is a 2.8 wide angle, but realistically F/4 vs f2.8 on wide angles is not that big of a deal.

moneybagzz

The performance envelope of the D7000 is comparable to the D300S. With that in mind, speculation that Nikon will merge the two lines seems very reasonable. You will have the D3200 / D5200 as entry-level bodies, a D400/D7X00 for the mid-range user, and the D600/D800/D4 series for the professional level user.
I'd really like to see Nikon spend some time/money on higher-end flashes. I'd like to see a handle-mount flash unit to compete with the Metz 76 Mecablitz.

spraynpray

Not a random off-thread post:

Last night I saw a presentation of his last 18 months best wildlife/landscape pictures by a chap called Robert Canis. He is a professional who does workshops and evening talks at clubs etc. His talk was superb because the pictures showed massive depth of knowledge about his subjects and huge dedication to his craft. He had the energy that only somebody who really loved what they do has. At each image which was technically difficult he said a few words on his technique and just before the break he shared with us that he did very minimal PP to his shots which were all taken with a D300. Bokeh was fab, he used auto ISO a lot to maintain the required DoF and SS, and his pics showed no noticeable noise up to ISO 1600 on our clubs projector.

During the break, I asked him if he was looking forward to the D400 and he said basically if the layout is the same, he may get one. I was stunned by the quality of his shots which showed that close familiarity with your camera and knowledge of how to use it beats having ones focus on the arrival of the next model. 'MAY' get one.

I suppose 'if it ain't broke' applies here.

PB_PM

Yup, I still shoot wildlife with a D300, when the light is good enough.

sevencrossing

Err .. all the pro fx lenses are available to dx users .. what are you talking about ? the wide end ? there are several dedicated wide dx lenses .. both from nikon and third party..

Additionally some/most "pro" lenses perform better on DX due to the "sweet spot" eg the 70-200 which has a slight vignetting on FX

Any given lens performance, will be the same, regardless if it on CX, DX, FX or 35 mm, film

Yes, Fx glass can be used on a DX camera but you be "wasting" about half the usable image produced by the fx lens

An FX image can be easily cropped to Dx in post , but you cannot go the other way round

Nikon Dx cameras have one very big advantages over Nikon FX Cameras ,: They cheaper

I feel Nikon is no longer interested in producing a cheap professional camera

Msmoto

Mmm... when I read the link on DxOMArk it said:

"The improvements are important. Are they enough to close the gap with the “old” full frame sensors? Not yet. Even though the dynamics are better on the new APS-C sensors, and even though the color depth for both sensors is the same, the high ISO score is still far better on an old full-frame sensor such as that of the D700. The score is more than doubled on the D700, meaning that the difference is superior to 1 stop — quite noticeable. This tendency is confirmed by a closer examination of the SNR metrics, the D700 being ahead by almost 4 dB along the entire ISO range.
For a photographer, a full-frame choice is still the best choice for less noise, and without any competition when the ISO has to be raised."