Wondering Wheather The inevitable Nikon Full Frame Mirrorless Will Be An F Mount.

MickslickMickslick Posts: 12Member
edited December 2014 in Nikon DSLR cameras
So, eventually Nikon will have to go all in on mirrorless or cease to exist at some point. I sure hope when they do make a full frame mirrorless they will logically make it an F mount so we don't all have to replace our lenses. Thoughts? Am I off base here?
Post edited by Mickslick on
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Comments

  • manhattanboymanhattanboy Posts: 1,003Member
    edited December 2014
    Depends what you mean by F-mount. If you mean you can mount your existing lenses then NO.
    Check out the Nikon Mirrorless FF patent here:
    http://egami.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2014-12-16
    Just like Sony with their FE versus alpha mount and Canon with their M-mount, the mirrorless will be a different mount.
    I am beginning to wonder whether I should stop ALL purchases of DSLR gear from now on. There is only one path ahead and it is not a good one for DSLR owners.

    Nikon could have chosen to design the mirrorless with air space to the sensor to keep the FX mount intact but it seems "wasted" from an engineering perspective, but is not really wasted from a lens system and compatibility perspective.

    Ultimately the corporate overlords will be greedy and force everyone to buy a new set of lenses as a way to generate new revenue. Just like Sony, Nikon will end up with a weak lens line up with a CX DX FX and MX (?) mounts for lenses. It makes sense from their perspective as they can continue to make 18-whatever zooms /s
    Post edited by manhattanboy on
  • Golf007sdGolf007sd Posts: 2,840Moderator
    edited December 2014
    If nikon is willing to make mounts on their current (and old) bodies...i.e. D7000, D7200, Df....that can use many of their older generation lenses (AI/AI-S), then I'm willing to roll the dice that they will not do the same should they come out with a mirrorless body that will be worth my purchase. Nikon FT1 Mount Adapter already offers those that have purchased a V1.
    Post edited by Golf007sd on
    D4 & D7000 | Nikon Holy Trinity Set + 105 2.8 Mico + 200 F2 VR II | 300 2.8G VR II, 10.5 Fish-eye, 24 & 50 1.4G, 35 & 85 1.8G, 18-200 3.5-5.6 VR I SB-400 & 700 | TC 1.4E III, 1.7 & 2.0E III, 1.7 | Sigma 35 & 50 1.4 DG HSM | RRS Ballhead & Tripods Gear | Gitzo Monopod | Lowepro Gear | HDR via Promote Control System |
  • manhattanboymanhattanboy Posts: 1,003Member
    edited December 2014
    If nikon is willing to make mounts on their current (and old) bodies...i.e. D7000, D7200, Df....that can use many of their older generation lenses (AI/AI-S), when I'm willing to roll the dice that they will not do the same should they come out with a mirrorless body that will be worth my purchase. Nikon FT1 Mount Adapter already offers those that have purchased a V1.
    The ft1 is at best something to use in a pinch and not really meant for those cameras.
    For sure Nikon exactly like canon will offer an adapter for their mirrorless. But I highly doubt that you will be able to take an existing lens and have it mount to the new cameras without an adapter. I agree with you that maintaining backwards compatibility has been a strategic advantage for Nikon. Thats why its a shame they are going to abandon the f mount eventually or have the company stumble for many years while they try to LOL.

    Post edited by manhattanboy on
  • manhattanboymanhattanboy Posts: 1,003Member
    Also OP might want to fix the title.
    If you are wondering what the weather will be like for Nikon's mirrorless transition I predict it will be stormy.
    Whether that's true or not only time will tell. :D
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,450Moderator
    edited December 2014
    Also don't forget the 'r' in mirrorless and it's 'inevitable' not 'ineveitable' while you are there...
    Post edited by spraynpray on
    Always learning.
  • SportsSports Posts: 365Member
    New mount will not be F-mount, but F-mount lenses will be supported.
    It's just the question how difficult it'll be to use old lenses, and if all old lenses will be supported ... or just some categories.
    Built-in compatibility: unlikely
    Adapter free with camera or at a fair price: more likely
    Adapter at a high price: most likely
    D300, J1
    Sigma 70-200/2.8, 105/2.8
    Nikon 50/1.4G, 18-200, 80-400G
    1 10-30, 30-110
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,450Moderator
    But the adaptor will give people the ability to use the camera with their old glass and get decent results then change the glass in time.
    Always learning.
  • SportsSports Posts: 365Member
    edited December 2014
    If Nikon chooses the same flange focal distance, it should be easy for them to make a "double mount".
    If Nikon chooses a smaller flange focal distance, the body can become smaller, but then an adapter (external or some built-in magic) must be used. I suppose the adapter could develop into a bonus advantage: it could become possible to use other lenses (Canon, Leica?? etc.) if Nikon builds such adapters - or provides specs so that others can do so => more lenses to choose from and easy to switch to Nikon. Well, this would be good for customers, but Nikon will probably prefer us to buy new Nikon lenses.
    Post edited by Sports on
    D300, J1
    Sigma 70-200/2.8, 105/2.8
    Nikon 50/1.4G, 18-200, 80-400G
    1 10-30, 30-110
  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,181Member
    edited December 2014
    @pitchblack : LOL ! good idea and could possibly be done. but highly unlikely :-) especially the part about making optical adjustments..

    @sport : Canon has always had the advantage of being able to use nikon lenses.. mirrorless nikons with short flange will allow it to go the other way ! well I cant bare to mount canon glass on my N1V1 but thats me :-)
    Post edited by heartyfisher on
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,450Moderator
    edited December 2014
    As I understand it (which is not to any great depth at all I will freely admit), a great advantage of a mirror-less design is reducing the distance from the lens mount to the sensor so if the only difference is that, I would say that there may not be any glass needed in an adaptor at all. If that is the case, and if the difference in distance is enough to allow an adaptor to work, the mount adaptor may need an area clear of obstructions on the front of the camera to accommodate the F mount adaptor.
    Post edited by spraynpray on
    Always learning.
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,396Member
    It will just be a simple spacer (like an extension tube) supplying the distance lost with the missing mirror box.
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,450Moderator
    edited December 2014
    As I thought, but if there is too little difference, the adaptor will struggle to accommodate everything to the rear of the lens's F mount flange.
    Post edited by spraynpray on
    Always learning.
  • michael66michael66 Posts: 231Member
    I don't think people will be happy with anything less than optical perfection in an adapter, in a *full frame* mirrorless, at the expense of being clunky.
    I've tried using the backscreen for focusing and composing on a Nikon 1, but didn't like the way I had to hold it. Do you think there will be a 'second' screen built into an eye-piece? Or will I get used to the holding of the camera a foot away from my body and stare at a screen?
  • SportsSports Posts: 365Member
    As I thought, but if there is too little difference, the adaptor will struggle to accommodate everything to the rear of the lens's F mount flange.
    For the Nikon 1, they reduced the distance by almost 30 mm, and for a new FX, they'll reduce the distance by at least 15 mm, probably more, I'm sure. Alternatively, they'll stick with the current distance. Anyway, there should be plenty of space for an adapter, if needed.
    D300, J1
    Sigma 70-200/2.8, 105/2.8
    Nikon 50/1.4G, 18-200, 80-400G
    1 10-30, 30-110
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    So, eventually Nikon will have to go all in on mirrorless or cease to exist at some point. ?
    Nikon have already made a mirrorless camera which, with with an adapter, will take F mount lenses

    I think there will come a time, when they bring out something to replace the F mount and the mirror box found in all there full frame DSLRS But I think that is at least 5 years away

    In the meantime I am looking forward to 2016 and the D900 which I suspect will have a mirror box and take my F mount lenses

  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,450Moderator
    If/when Nikon do make their last top DSLR - possibly the D900 @sevencrossing speaks of - I will be sure to buy one or two. I just like the shape/size weight/layout of them and doubt that I will find that a mirrorless will ever be as good to handle. I could be wrong and I do hope so, but we'll see.
    Always learning.
  • Golf007sdGolf007sd Posts: 2,840Moderator
    edited December 2014
    @spraynpray: Have you had your hands on a Df? I have a feeling it will very much be in the size format.
    Post edited by Golf007sd on
    D4 & D7000 | Nikon Holy Trinity Set + 105 2.8 Mico + 200 F2 VR II | 300 2.8G VR II, 10.5 Fish-eye, 24 & 50 1.4G, 35 & 85 1.8G, 18-200 3.5-5.6 VR I SB-400 & 700 | TC 1.4E III, 1.7 & 2.0E III, 1.7 | Sigma 35 & 50 1.4 DG HSM | RRS Ballhead & Tripods Gear | Gitzo Monopod | Lowepro Gear | HDR via Promote Control System |
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,450Moderator
    I haven't Ali, no. I would expect the flange to sensor distance to be a lot smaller though otherwise Nikon would be throwing away the potential IQ advantage of mirrorless so I am firmly in the 'hoping for an adaptor in the box' camp.
    Always learning.
  • Golf007sdGolf007sd Posts: 2,840Moderator
    I'm willing to speculate that if and when Nikon does offer a FF Pro-level mirrorless body then it will have the built quality and form factor of what we have seen with the Df. This size will allow for perhaps the adaptor to be built-in thus offering the end user to easily change the distance of the sensor to the mount.

    And I quote: "but who the hell knows if it's possible. I just dream stuff up sometimes." :P
    D4 & D7000 | Nikon Holy Trinity Set + 105 2.8 Mico + 200 F2 VR II | 300 2.8G VR II, 10.5 Fish-eye, 24 & 50 1.4G, 35 & 85 1.8G, 18-200 3.5-5.6 VR I SB-400 & 700 | TC 1.4E III, 1.7 & 2.0E III, 1.7 | Sigma 35 & 50 1.4 DG HSM | RRS Ballhead & Tripods Gear | Gitzo Monopod | Lowepro Gear | HDR via Promote Control System |
  • manhattanboymanhattanboy Posts: 1,003Member
    I don't think people will be happy with anything less than optical perfection in an adapter, in a *full frame* mirrorless, at the expense of being clunky.
    This is the EXACT reason I rarely use the FT-1 on the Nikon 1 series. If anyone has tried to handhold a Nikon 1 series attached to Nikon F-mount tele and shoot, you know that it is clunky at best.

    Nonetheless, there is a huge size savings from the F-mount to the tiny Nikon 1 mount. But is there really that much space savings for a Full Frame F-mount to Full Frame mirrorless mount? Sony A7 to alpha99 is about one inch thinner (30mm), but most of that comes off from a reduced grip. If you leave a regular sized grip, then the advantages of a closer mirrorless mount diminish as the camera overall is still big.

    I think Nikon would be better to split the mirrorless transition. Make a mirrorless body that accepts the F-mount natively first, and then after the kinks have been worked out over several years consider downsizing the lenses with a shorter new mount. Making both transitions at once will alienate too many folks.
  • IronheartIronheart Posts: 3,017Moderator
    edited December 2014
    I don't think people will be happy with anything less than optical perfection in an adapter, in a *full frame* mirrorless, at the expense of being clunky.
    This is the EXACT reason I rarely use the FT-1 on the Nikon 1 series. If anyone has tried to handhold a Nikon 1 series attached to Nikon F-mount tele and shoot, you know that it is clunky at best.
    The clunky-ness is easy to solve:

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/823279-REG/BARSKA_AF10926_ACCU_Grip_Camera_Pistol_Grip.html

    image

    And since the FT-1 has no optical elements (it's a fancy spacer with electrical contacts) so no worries on the optical front.
    Post edited by Ironheart on
  • MikeGunterMikeGunter Posts: 543Member
    Hi all,

    For my part, I wish that Nikon had joined in the Micro 4/3ds group and added to their lenses and bodies. It seems pointless to add another format.

    But that's not the question, and the original question has two parts - does the user of the Nikon mirrorless camera plan to use their camera images in an larger view format or is smaller view acceptable? IOW, does the user need the full frame?

    If so, there will be enough new design stuff to go along with the new bigger mirrorless body to warrant a newly designed lens, and at the price of the body, I doubt that the buyer will flinch much.

    My best,

    Mike
  • NukeNuke Posts: 64Member
    I think Nikon would be missing out on a perfect opportunity if there is not a new short flange distance mount in any future mirrorless type camera. A chance to dump the retrofocus lenses and a better design for the electronic contacts. The f-mount has been a great design. It has been proven by the test of time but at best, the electronics between camera and lens is a kluge.

    Better communications between camera <-> lens and being able to flash the lens with new firmware could offer many useful features.

    Nikon would also be nuts if they didn’t offer an adapter for the f-mount lenses.
  • manhattanboymanhattanboy Posts: 1,003Member
    I think Nikon would be missing out on a perfect opportunity if there is not a new short flange distance mount in any future mirrorless type camera. A chance to dump the retrofocus lenses and a better design for the electronic contacts. The f-mount has been a great design. It has been proven by the test of time but at best, the electronics between camera and lens is a kluge.
    Then why not buy a Sony or a Fuji?
    Sony would likely be cheaper and both Sony and Fuji would have a better lens lineup than a Mirrorless FF Nikon.
    These are the questions you would have to ask yourself if you had to start from scratch again, and I think Thom has written to death about it already.


    The clunky-ness is easy to solve:

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/823279-REG/BARSKA_AF10926_ACCU_Grip_Camera_Pistol_Grip.html

    image

    And since the FT-1 has no optical elements (it's a fancy spacer with electrical contacts) so no worries on the optical front.
    Glad that works for you. Unfortunately I put my camera/lens with the lens facing down into my bag which prevents me from having anything attached to the tripod foot. And I always wonder how much torque stress that FT-1 can handle when grabbing the getup by the camera body...those N1 camera attachments are not made to handle several pounds of lens hanging off the front LOL. Its still clunky and that's why I laid down the cash for the 70-300 native CX, which is a much better match.
  • NukeNuke Posts: 64Member
    I think Nikon would be missing out on a perfect opportunity if there is not a new short flange distance mount in any future mirrorless type camera. A chance to dump the retrofocus lenses and a better design for the electronic contacts. The f-mount has been a great design. It has been proven by the test of time but at best, the electronics between camera and lens is a kluge.
    Then why not buy a Sony or a Fuji?
    Sony would likely be cheaper and both Sony and Fuji would have a better lens lineup than a Mirrorless FF Nikon.
    These are the questions you would have to ask yourself if you had to start from scratch again, and I think Thom has written to death about it already.

    For myself, it's because I already have twelve f-mount lenses.

    As for someone just starting out, sure, why not? All the mfgs have always been an option when you have a clean slate. Maybe Nikon will offer the adapter with the early versions of a mirrorless? As for the price of this yet unseen mirrorless, we have no idea? Personally, I think most of the mirrorless cameras are over priced, considering they are missing many of the parts of a DSLR.
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