Tell me about this new D810 for deep space photography

Snowleopard

I guess my biggest question is, can it be used for taking regular photo's or is this camera only to be used at night when shooting into the sky? I want better milky way shots, but I want to shoot portraits, landscapes, animals, etc also.

spraynpray

AFAIK no.

Canon have offered these astro optimised bodies for a while now, it's great to see Nikon getting on board. If I win the lottery, I'll have one.

I wonder why we can't have a screw-on filter to do the same (to some extent)?

Snowleopard

I am not sure, I mean, they make the sun filters for telescope optics, they should be able to make a 77mm version of that filter. might be expensive though, but then any camera can photograph night stuff better.

Ironheart

They need to remove the IR filter from the sensor, or have one that is optimized for passing 656.28 nm wavelength. A hydrogen-alpha filter removes all of the wavelengths except a narrow band around the first hydrogen emission spectral line at 656.28 nm. Digital sensors are much more sensitive red and infrared wavelengths than film, so most digital cameras have a fairly strong IR filter in front of the sensor. So, an astro optimized camera will allow photography of deep space nebulae that are fairly shifted over to the red and infra-red end of the spectrum, whereas a normal camera, err, will not.
The color "red" is in the range of 620-750 nm. Most IR filters will attenuate wavelengths starting at 650 or so.

Ironheart

To shoot an astro-optimized camera for regular subjects, you will need to put an IR filter back onto the lens, or between the lens and the sensor. Otherwise, your photos will be on the reddish side:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/475095-REG/B_W_65_031976_77mm_486_Digital_UV_IR.html

spraynpray

So, is that a yes or no? :-/

Ironheart

To which question? An astro-modified camera has a different or non-existent IR filter in front of the sensor. Normally digital cameras have a very strong IR filter, because CCD and CMOS are sensitive to IR wavelengths between 700-1000 nm. You can turn an astro-camera back into a normal camera by adding an IR filter back into the mix. You can't go the other way, adding a filter to a normal camera, because the IR wavelengths are blocked at the sensor. Does this answer whatever the question is?

Snowleopard

This actually brings up another good question.... I special ordered a 77mm 1000nm IR filter to use on my D700 and I have so much trouble with that thing.....

There is a hot spot in the middle of the frame that I believe is caused by the shutter speed sensor in the camera, the one that measures the shutter speed, apparently they are some wavelength of IR. :-(

Ironheart

Are you closing the eyepiece shutter?

spraynpray

You can turn an astro-camera back into a normal camera by adding an IR filter back into the mix. You can't go the other way, adding a filter to a normal camera, because the IR wavelengths are blocked at the sensor. Does this answer whatever the question is?

If you bought the astro body it's not really feasible to use an IR filter for normal photography though as it is like having an ND filter on all the time.

IMHO this another indication that Nikon will go after small market sectors SO WHERE IS THE D400 NIKON?

Msmoto

Just for fun.....taken with
B+W 52mm 093 (87C) Infrared Glass Filter which Blocks Entire Visible Spectrum, Filter Appears Opaque to the Eye, Transmission Begins at 1% at 800nm, Transmission Rises to 88% at 900nm



This was my only trial with this setup and in the future I will get hopefully better images. Sunset, and the issue of focusing in live view....could not see much of anything...LOL

sevencrossing

IMHO this another indication that Nikon will go after small market sectors SO WHERE IS THE D400 NIKON?

I have mentioned this before AT A PRICE Nikon will make whatever you want
http://company7.com/nikon/index.html

Ironheart

You can turn an astro-camera back into a normal camera by adding an IR filter back into the mix. You can't go the other way, adding a filter to a normal camera, because the IR wavelengths are blocked at the sensor. Does this answer whatever the question is?

If you bought the astro body it's not really feasible to use an IR filter for normal photography though as it is like having an ND filter on all the time.

Notsomuch. There are two types of IR filter we are discussing here. The IR filter that goes in front of every DSLR sensor is optically clear. It passes visible light, but blocks IR (see my pretty graph?!?). The filter link I provided above does the exact same thing.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/475095-REG/B_W_65_031976_77mm_486_Digital_UV_IR.html
"The B+W 77mm UV/IR Cut 486M MRC Filter is an interference filter designed to reflect and break up wavelengths on both sides of the visible spectrum (infrared and ultraviolet) in order to gain a more pure transmittance of the visible spectrum. The filter is completely colorless and is comprised of thin layers with varying thicknesses, similar to a multi-coating. "
This is the filter I would use on a camera that has had its sensor IR filter removed or modified for astro use.

The other kind of IR filter is one that blocks everything except IR wavelengths. Because these are put on lenses in front of sensors that already have IR blocking filters, you need to keep your shutter open a long time to get any IR through the system. Because they also block visible light, it makes focusing and composing much tougher (like a 100stop ND tough).
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/122481-REG/Hoya_B77RM72_77mm_RM72_Infrared_Glass.html

The filter that @msmoto points directly at the sun is yet another beast, which blocks like 99.999% of all light! and only let's through enough visible light to take a pic of the disc of the sun.
http://www.thousandoaksoptical.com/solar.html

spraynpray

Drat! No short-cuts then!

If I see one of these bodies that I can hire, I'll definitely go for it but I can't splash on something I would use so little.

scoobysmak

This actually brings up another good question.... I special ordered a 77mm 1000nm IR filter to use on my D700 and I have so much trouble with that thing.....

There is a hot spot in the middle of the frame that I believe is caused by the shutter speed sensor in the camera, the one that measures the shutter speed, apparently they are some wavelength of IR. :-(

I was just reading on lifepixel about this, some cameras (D700 included) have an LED to detect light leakage around the shutter. During long exposures this LED activates and "screws up" the IR shot, for normal shooting it wouldn't matter. Maybe I read that article wrong but it has an notation when converting the D700 to an IR camera that has more details about the issue. I believe long exposures and high ISO "trigger" the LED.

Symphotic

....

Canon have offered these astro optimised bodies for a while now, it's great to see Nikon getting on board. If I win the lottery, I'll have one.....

I'm with you on this. I have all the astrophotography gear (clock drives, telescope, heavy-duty tripod, solar filters, etc.) but since a car dealership expanded in my town the skies are not dark enough to use it-for security they leave floodlights on all night. It's too bad because one of the reasons I moved here back in the day was for the good viewing and dark skies. The only way to get back into astrophotography is drive out to the wilderness. I could buy camera if BMW-Mini goes out of business or closes their dealership here, or if I move (again).

But if I had unlimited funds for the once or twice a year I find myself out in the wilds with my camera and a telescope it would be great fun.

Ironheart

See if they will change their lights over to sodium vapor, then you can just filter them out:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/370353-REG/Celestron_94124_UHC_Ultra_High_Contrast.html

Or this is better (and pricy):
http://www.sciencecenter.net/hutech/idas/lps.htm

spraynpray

See if they will change their lights over to sodium vapor, then you can just filter them out:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/370353-REG/Celestron_94124_UHC_Ultra_High_Contrast.html

I guess they are for telescopes as they don't come in 72 or 77mm?

Ironheart

I edited my post above to include a link to hutech. Even if the lights aren't sodium vapor these filters may help. I'm thinking of ordering one...

proudgeek

So with the specs officially released, what does everyone think. I dabble in astrophotography, and am wondering if I'd really notice a difference between this and the D800 I currently use. Was considering a D810 as a second body, but perhaps this warrants attention instead.

WestEndFoto

Good question. The Nikon website says it is not suitable for general photography. If it is only an incremental improvement with a $900 premium on the D810 in Canada, then they will not sell very many.

I used to have decent telescope kit when I was a kid. Unfortunately I live in the city with light pollution now.

proudgeek

Yes, I just read that. I don't think I can justify a $3,800 camera that I'll use for about 2% of my shots. C'est la vie.

Photobug

At that price point and knowing it really is not suited for general photography, you wonder what kid of demand there is for this product. For sure this is a real "specialty item".

Ironheart

From nikon.com:
"The D810A is a digital SLR camera designed exclusively for astrophotography. When shooting under light sources with a significant amount of near-infrared wavelengths, or capturing common subjects exhibiting high reflectance at near-infrared wavelengths, resulting images may exhibit an unusually red cast. Because an appropriate color reproduction cannot be obtained, this model is not recommended for general photography."

I don't see why this couldn't be fixed by an IR cut filter on the lens, as I mentioned above. I have a question into nikon support regarding this.

Coastalconn

@Snowleopard Hot spots are actually caused by the lens used in IR. Here is a database.. http://www.kolarivision.com/lenshotspot.html I have a Full spectrum D200 that I haven't used in a long time, but I played around with it when I was starting out.. Since it is full spectrum, there is no filter over the sensor, only clear glass, so I have to hold a filter over the lens for IR stuff. Here is my limited gallery of ir https://www.flickr.com/search/?w=63476818@N08&q=d200

Now about this 810A.. I don't get it, Nikon thinks us birders and sports DX users are a "Niche market"? What I really don't get is someone can buy a used D800 for about $1500 and have it converted to Astro for $400. The 900 second shutter, huh? It's called bulb mode with a remote control hooked to the camera.. This sight is probably the company that makes the filters for the 810A.. http://www.spencerscamera.com/about.cfm

Beso

Yes, I just read that. I don't think I can justify a $3,800 camera that I'll use for about 2% of my shots. C'est la vie.

I have very similar thoughts and it does seem the price is a bit "astronomical" when compared to the deals currently offered for the D810 at $3K.