New Nikon Full Frame Mirrorless Being Field Tested Now!

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Comments

  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited April 2015

    A clever design would be to produce native mount lenses with an adapter that is taken off .
    and lost:)

    No thank you. I would rather have a thicker body
    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,185Member
    edited April 2015
    If we assume that the rumor is correct and the Fmount is on the new mirrorless. The huge advantage would be the use of all current lenses. I would think they would also release at the same time several native mirrorless lenses that were much shorter eg a 35, 50 and/or 24-70. these could easily be 2cm shorter than the current ones, and that would be significant. In fact it would be the practically the same length as the current mirrorless FF systems. However, 2 cm shorter on a new 200-400mm F4 would not make much of a difference, might as well just use the current version.

    Furthermore, they can still release a new mount for mirrorless DX with a shorter flange distance and smaller opening where they could include an adapter like the FT1 like the nikon1 system.
    Post edited by heartyfisher on
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,441Member
    heartyfisher: yes, I think that is what Nikon will do, a few new compact lenses and an adapter to use the longer conventional lenses.
  • haroldpharoldp Posts: 984Member

    A clever design would be to produce native mount lenses with an adapter that is taken off .
    and lost:)

    No thank you. I would rather have a thicker body
    only if you take it off.

    ... H
    D810, D3x, 14-24/2.8, 50/1.4D, 24-70/2.8, 24-120/4 VR, 70-200/2.8 VR1, 80-400 G, 200-400/4 VR1, 400/2.8 ED VR G, 105/2 DC, 17-55/2.8.
    Nikon N90s, F100, F, lots of Leica M digital and film stuff.

  • haroldpharoldp Posts: 984Member
    I would also like to use Leica lenses (I have many) on a Nikon mirrorless body, which requires a thinner body / mount.

    .... H
    D810, D3x, 14-24/2.8, 50/1.4D, 24-70/2.8, 24-120/4 VR, 70-200/2.8 VR1, 80-400 G, 200-400/4 VR1, 400/2.8 ED VR G, 105/2 DC, 17-55/2.8.
    Nikon N90s, F100, F, lots of Leica M digital and film stuff.

  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,185Member
    I would also like to use Leica lenses (I have many) on a Nikon mirrorless body, which requires a thinner body / mount.

    .... H
    And i think that is what nikon would be unofficially purposely precluding.
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,185Member
    heartyfisher: yes, I think that is what Nikon will do, a few new compact lenses and an adapter to use the longer conventional lenses.
    ?? its an F-Mount there is no adapter needed...

    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited April 2015
    or 24-70. these could easily be 2cm shorter than the current ones,.
    Yes I think/ hope we might see a new mirrorless, lightweight, Mid range F mount, zoom. In order to keep the cost, weight and size down, it might not be f 2.8
    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • IronheartIronheart Posts: 3,017Moderator
    Which is why Nikon has a patent on a 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 VR full frame mirrorless lens, mentioned in the same blog post.
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    it seems odd is that it is only 28 wide and stops down to f 5.6 at 80mm
    definitely a consumer lens and of no use to me whatsoever
  • heartyfisherheartyfisher Posts: 3,185Member
    edited April 2015
    Which is why Nikon has a patent on a 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 VR full frame mirrorless lens, mentioned in the same blog post.
    If that mirrorless lens is fmount it looks like it could posibly be sticking out as far as the 35mm f1.8 g lense only !

    Post edited by heartyfisher on
    Moments of Light - D610 D7K S5pro 70-200f4 18-200 150f2.8 12-24 18-70 35-70f2.8 : C&C very welcome!
    Being a photographer is a lot like being a Christian: Some people look at you funny but do not see the amazing beauty all around them - heartyfisher.

  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,441Member
    heartyfisher: Since the mirrorless body will not use a mirror box the distance from the DSLR flange to the sensor will be greater than the distance from the mirrorless flange to the sensor. The adapter is needed to take up this space so "normal" lenses will be mounted a normal distance from the sensor when the adapter is used.

    haroldp: yes, if Nikon doesn't make an adapter from f-mount on the mirrorless body to Leica hopefully a third party supplier will. Since the mirror box is missing there is going to be space for an adapter. But I don't know the distance from the Leica flange to the sensor on leica rangefinders. Hopefully that distance will be longer than the distance from the Nikon mirrorless flange to the sensor so there is plenty of room for an adapter.
  • IronheartIronheart Posts: 3,017Moderator
    edited April 2015
    The adaptor would really be nothing more than an extension ring. Which is essentially what the FT-N Is for the Nikon 1. This would allow for mirrorless lenses to be optimized for the smaller flange distance, or use the spacer for existing F mount. There really isn't much advantage for anything over about 75mm, unless you like variable aperture zooms, for which at least one person has voiced dissatisfaction :-)
    Post edited by Ironheart on
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    if Nikon doesn't make an adapter from f-mount on the mirrorless body to Leica hopefully a third party supplier will.
    I would guess the design and patent guys at Nikon will be trying to set things up, so they can't

    am I right in thinking there are no third party Nikon 1 lenses

  • IronheartIronheart Posts: 3,017Moderator
    edited April 2015
    There are a few third party Nikon 1 lenses:
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1076870-REG/rokinon_rmc7_5_ni_7_5mm_t_3_8_fisheye_lens.html

    Third parties will adapt everything with a larger flange to sensor distance ;-)

    There is a Nikon 1 to leica adaptor:
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/995012-REG/fotodiox_lm_nk_1_p_nikon_1_lens_mount.html
    and about 25 others:
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Camera+Fitting+(Male)_Nikon+1&ci=3420&N=4077634486+4165746962

    If were up to me, I'd keep the exact same mount, but just make the sensor to flange distance 26.5 instead of 46.5. You then include a 20mm extension tube. Call the new mount the F20, meaning you need a 20mm extension to mount a regular F lens.
    Post edited by Ironheart on
  • manhattanboymanhattanboy Posts: 1,003Member
    They should keep the F mount. Remember when the mirror flips up the distance from the mount to sensor is what is important. Removing the mirror doesn't change this.
    They are probably exploring several options but the one that makes the most sense is to have parts of the lens project into the camera body to utilize the space one occupied by the mirror. Nikon has patented this already for certain lenses. That way you can have the best of both worlds. Shorter lenses made only for mirror less and legacy support for older f mount lenses. It's really a brilliant solution and I am not sure why canon didn't go that route. For those wanting tiny Nikon is betting on the N1 system with the thought that eventually sensor tech will allow for even small sensors to take good photos. Think about it like this: what if Nikon were to introduce a foveon like sensor. It is expensive and difficult to manufacturer so to increase yields they make it for the N1 series. Now you have an interchangeable lenses system that is super tiny with good IQ.
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,493Member

    Other than this I don't know of anything that would make a Nikon F mount mirrorless camera smaller. I won't comment on the comparison with film cameras because it is such a different design from current mirrorless bodies.
    That's not the point. The point is that an F mount camera does not have to be thick or big.

    image
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,675Member
    And it is a good point. The body can be thin while the mount protrudes. No need to change a mount design.

    A new system has to be a lot better (some would say 10 times) before it is economical to change it.

    For this reason, I believe that Nikon will maintain the flange to focal distance and f-mount.
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,441Member
    I disagree because one of the points of a mirrorless body is to have a smaller camera. Hence, I think Nikon will use a much shorter sensor to flange distance, produce a new set of compact f-mount lenses designed for this body and provide a spacer to allow use of all the legacy lenses. Those who want a compact small full frame body and lenses will have one and yet all the regular longer lenses will still be usable. Ironheart has it right here.
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,675Member
    Not disputing the merits of a mirrorless camera, just a new mount. I think the above image demonstrates that you don't need a new mount for a smaller camera.
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,493Member
    I disagree because one of the points of a mirrorless body is to have a smaller camera. Hence, I think Nikon will use a much shorter sensor to flange distance, produce a new set of compact f-mount lenses designed for this body and provide a spacer to allow use of all the legacy lenses. Those who want a compact small full frame body and lenses will have one and yet all the regular longer lenses will still be usable. Ironheart has it right here.
    Making another line of lenses does not solve a problem, but creates one. Nikon is already making four lines of lenses (Nikon 1, Nikon 1 Under Water, DX and FX). Why reinvent the wheel, when it doesn't solve a problem? Using the F mount gives Nikon a huge advantage, every lens you want is available right on launch day. Needlessly forcing accessories, like a mount extender, doesn't solve a problem, it makes one (another accessory you have to remember to lug around).
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,507Moderator
    Problem with that idea is, it is possible that one day the mirror-less range will bring about the end of the mirrored SLR's and at that time, it would not be wise to still be using designs that were optimised for a different technology - especially if they are the only option.

    Personally, I think a small adaptor with every lens is a good idea then you never have to take it off (and lose it @sevencrossing). The way is then open for a new and better range of lenses to take over from the F mount range.
    Always learning.
  • funtagraphfuntagraph Posts: 265Member
    edited April 2015

    Other than this I don't know of anything that would make a Nikon F mount mirrorless camera smaller. I won't comment on the comparison with film cameras because it is such a different design from current mirrorless bodies.
    That's not the point. The point is that an F mount camera does not have to be thick or big.

    image
    Uuhm, where will you mount the rear display? The flange distance defines where to put the sensor, behind it the circuits, behind them the display and oops, we have a brick. FE: no sensor, no display, small battery, not much electronics, not to speak of RAM or CPU and although those circuits became smaller, they also became much more. Oh, and how a bout AF? Inbuilt flash? Now, put a motor drive to get a little bit faster fps than 1.5/sec under the FE and see what happens:

    image (© Tobias Conrac)

    And this suddenly huge machine needs a film change every 38 exposures… if we want to get up to 250 exposures, it suddenly looks like "Transformers". So, if you want to enjoy the romantic of film era, please do so. You know what? I like to hold that big things better than the small ones, I just don't want to carry them for a long walk. :)
    Post edited by funtagraph on
  • haroldpharoldp Posts: 984Member
    And frames rates limited to 4 fps to not rip film and strip gears. And ISO 800 color film really sucked (a technical term we used in the film era). Give me a D4 or 810 anytime for action.

    None of which has anything to do with flange (or flabje) distance.

    While other factors like EVF and AF have yet to catch up, when they do, not having a swinging mirror has to be an improvement.

    .... H

    D810, D3x, 14-24/2.8, 50/1.4D, 24-70/2.8, 24-120/4 VR, 70-200/2.8 VR1, 80-400 G, 200-400/4 VR1, 400/2.8 ED VR G, 105/2 DC, 17-55/2.8.
    Nikon N90s, F100, F, lots of Leica M digital and film stuff.

  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,493Member
    edited April 2015

    Uuhm, where will you mount the rear display? The flange distance defines where to put the sensor, behind it the circuits, behind them the display and oops, we have a brick.
    I'm not saying that the mirrorless camera should be an FE, but look at the location of the focal plane on the FE and the D750 and ask those questions again. On the D750 we are talking about just over a centimetre from the focal plane to the back of the LCD. On the FE it's half a centimetre. The difference is almost negligible in terms of the overall size of the camera. Most of the parts you are talking about do not sit stacked right behind the sensor, but rather on the same plane as the sensor, or just millimetres behind it on the same board.
    Post edited by PB_PM on
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
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