Ditching f mount once Nikon goes mirrorless?

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  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,396Moderator
    My suspicions are that the new mirrorless will be full frame, requiring pretty much the same lens weights. In crop mode, down to possibly using only 12 mm x 18 mm, a special set of lenses will be offered, at a significantly lower weight. But, with adaptor, the 400 mm would be like an 800 mm when crop mode is used.

    Nikon has stated that full frame is where they see the future. Could we be seeing a sensor development process which will at some point make the medium format cameras less and less useful? I believe this is why Nikon is going the way they are.

    One thing to understand about my particular perspective is that my history has used Hasselblads and up to 11" x14" sheet film cameras (Deardorf mounted on a 10' tall post). Thus, anything less than about ten pounds is not very heavy. At my old age I do find the big gun lenses sometimes a bit tiring, but my thinking is always about capturing what I set out to capture.

    For a bit of humor, this link may be useful
    https://forum.nikonrumors.com/discussion/3386/nikon-large-sensor-mirrorless-camera-is-a-possibility
    Msmoto, mod
  • retreadretread Posts: 554Member
    BVS said:

    @snakebunk I'm sure there will be an adapter. But have you used adapters with heavy telephotos? Would you hang a 400 2.8 off an adapter? How about chaining an adapter with a tc like the 2x? If they were giving us a brand new set of telephotos and telling us to use the adapter for light weight lenses it's one thing, but they are probably doing the opposite.

    Hanging a heavy telephoto off an adapter shouldn't be any worse than hanging it off a TC currently, assuming it had decent build quality. I don't see why they wouldn't make it as robust as needed, or maybe offer a more robust model and a more basic model.

    Adapter + TC might give me pause, but consider that a mirrorless camera will probably weigh less than the current FF equivalent, and most of the weight will be in the lens anyway, so you're either supporting most of the weight with your hand on the lens, or with a tripod foot attached to the lens.
    When you use a lens collar and the lens foot isn't the camera only supporting its own weight? When I have a big lens I carry the camera by the lens. If the hole in the new lens mount is larger by an adequate amount there is no reason an adapter could not be made. It would only need to pass the electrical information between camera and lens. The hole in the adapter need only be as big as the F mount hole. Therefor the adapter need only be a tube with a mount and contacts to pass the information on each end.
  • rmprmp Posts: 541Member
    I complain about weight for travels, but I always end up favoring IQ and put up with the weight. If the new to-be-mirrorless has the IQ of the D850, I'm in.
    Robert M. Poston: D4, D810, V3, 14-24 F2.8, 24-70 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8, 80-400, 105 macro.
  • vtc2002vtc2002 Posts: 364Member
    @retread Do you think there will need to be different adapters for the D, G and E versions of the lenses or the different TC's? Logically it seems like there would be unless the adapter has a chip in it that can detect the difference and communicate that to the camera.
  • BVSBVS Posts: 440Member
    retread said:

    When you use a lens collar and the lens foot isn't the camera only supporting its own weight? When I have a big lens I carry the camera by the lens.

    Exactly. And since a mirrorless would likely be lighter than a DSLR there's not much weight to support, so even if the adapter and TC are doubled up it shouldn't be a problem.

    D7100, 85 1.8G, 50 1.8G, 35 1.8G DX, Tokina 12-28 F4, 18-140, 55-200 VR DX
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,238Moderator
    Even if Nikon don't make an F mount to mirrorless adaptor, the likes of Metabones will be all over it so I think it is a case of calm down and carry on clickin' lol!
    Always learning.
  • vtc2002vtc2002 Posts: 364Member
    Out of curiosity, would Nikon have to file a patent for the adapter? Does anybody know?
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,337Member
    No they wouldn't have to. You don't have to patent anything. A patent just protects you intellectual property if you want to keep others from copying it so you can get a jump on marketing your invention. You don't need a patent. Lens optics can be patented but an adapter would not have any glass. The Nikon F-mount either must not have been patented or the patent ran out long ago because any third party can produce F-mount lenses without first obtaining permission from Nikon. So the F-mount end of the adapter is not patented now. Nikon could seek a patent for a new mount but has not done so to our knowledge. Perhaps Nikon is willing to allow third parties to create lenses in a new mount for a new body.
  • retreadretread Posts: 554Member
    vtc2002 said:

    @retread Do you think there will need to be different adapters for the D, G and E versions of the lenses or the different TC's? Logically it seems like there would be unless the adapter has a chip in it that can detect the difference and communicate that to the camera.

    I think the some TC's have both the electrical and mechanical connections so no reason an adapter could not do the same. The high end f mount cameras can use lenses from back in the 60's or 70's so it would depend on the new mount and what it and the new camera can do. I am sure there are limits but forward planning and engineering could do a lot if Nikon wanted too.
  • vtc2002vtc2002 Posts: 364Member
    @donaldejose and @retread Thank you for the information.
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,122Member
    vtc2002 said:

    Out of curiosity, would Nikon have to file a patent for the adapter? Does anybody know?

    They already have at least one, although the one mentioned here on on the blog might be old, since it even had a mirror box included as part the adapter.
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • DaveyJDaveyJ Posts: 958Member
    Minolta lenses due to their Mount changes lost almost all of their customers. Not just me, but thousands of customers. As to a big lens feeling awkward on a D500 due to,it's lightweight....wow! That is truly ignorant! I know of NO DSLR camera that should be supported by the camera. The support needs to be from the lens in these heavy cases. I am around many pro photo people, all stress the camera is never the support, hence if anything the lighter the better from the yarning of the camera body on the mount when such a big lens is mounted. Having used everything from a D5 to D500 to D7500 on the Nikon 200-500, 200-400 f4, and about ten other big lens. All support needs to come from the lens tripod collar.

    As to mirrorless super telephoto that is a slippery slope in deed. The viewfinder is absolutely much easier to use under MOST field conditions. All the big telephotos I have used when the LCD live view is used (and I use it a lot for video) it becomes incredibly difficult to use the screen to view the subject. Are those advocating mirrorless here for super telephotos that naive about LCD Screen use? I rarely wear a hat, but when using these big rigs in live view you darn near need a huge hat like a field focus cloth to even see the screen to find your subject, make sure your lens is focused,etc.,
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,122Member
    edited September 2017
    I don't think the vast majority understand those things DaveyJ. Most people use mid-range zooms (24-200mm range), and don't really understand how the lag of LCD refresh rates would affect long lens use. I sure wouldn't want to use a super telephoto on current generation mirrorless cameras, and not just because of how puny, and ergonomically poor they are. The DSLR will still be king for big glass until screen refresh rates are in the 244+hz range.

    Keep in mind, many mirrorless cameras have eyelevel LCD panels (viewfinder like) that you bring up to your eye, not just looking at the big rear screen. Cameras with those are much easier to use.
    Post edited by PB_PM on
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • snakebunksnakebunk Posts: 891Member
    On the Sony A9 you can have a screen refresh rate of 120 fps, and you don't have the mirror blackout like you have in a DSLR. I haven't tried the A9 but it sounds pretty good.
  • DaveyJDaveyJ Posts: 958Member
    I have used the Sony A9. Only for a short while. Enough to convince me it was nit in the least bit the camera I want. As tk mirror blackout, I have never seen much if that! My eyesight is far better than average, and my son and grandson are using the best cameras out there. They haven't had a bit of interest in Sonys A9. They own a lot of Sonys as video cameras, they can't use their RED fur some applications due to expense and hazards.
  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,396Moderator
    I see the idea of the big lenses with light bodies has come up... several day ago, LOL... but, my experience in shooting the cars/bikes is the support is always the lens, the camera body is only for squeezing the focus button and shutter release.

    My technique is to grab the front of the hood and drag the lens around to follow the subject. I am not actually looking at the subject so much as the spot on the subject I want my focus point to be. Refresh rate may not be so important, at least in my mind, as the goal is to become synched with the subject motion so as to minimize the subject blur, which occurs in race photos, as one wants all the background blur possible.

    Shutter speeds for the land based moving objects is generally from 1/250th to about 1/500th to achieve the above effect.

    Now, I have found the D4 is easier to shoot race cars with than the D500, whether the weight of the body has much to do with this or not I am not certain. Still learning the D500.

    I often complain, when shooting the cars, etc., I do not get to see the racing, because of the need to be aware of the dynamics.
    Msmoto, mod
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