200-500f5.6 Priced Under $1,400: Are You Excited?

Pistnbroke

How can a 24 mp FX mirrorless or DSLR give you the pixel density to use with a 200-500 and be called excellent?

Ton14

Not only two things, I should wait a couple of weeks till may, when the firmware is
out.

FreezeAction

Pistnbroke said:

How can a 24 mp FX mirrorless or DSLR give you the pixel density to use with a 200-500 and be called excellent?

Even with the D500 and 21.9 when I lure my subjects in close it's like having a macro almost on small birds and the detail in the feathers is very good if not excellent. I would prefer a D810 or D850 maybe at that same distance but and it's a big but is it worth it? If BIF then the D850 would be my choice for the 200-500. The biggest problem is that Nikon has to many customers to please on price alone that pays their corporate bills to build what some of us would really like. Most of us could spec out a body that would fit our needs to a "T". I could and maybe based on bodies in service it wouldn't violate any laws of physics... In the way we balance shutter speed, aperture, and ISO why can't a balance between fps, pixels density, and low light performance be engineered to take full advantage of the 200-500? Probably because it may hinder sales of the finer 300-600mm primes as well as flagship model bodies. Or would it become the new flagship body? For maximizing the use of my 200-500 I would like a D760 or D7xx that has 30mp, 8fps with a 150 frame buffer, and the low light capabilities of the D700 and a stop better if possible with the Expeed 6 processor, and the focusing ability of the D500 at a price between the D810 and D750. I believe those specs are doable and for most things would make a lot of people happy. I would preorder.

ADKDaveyJ

The wording “finer 300-600” catches my attention. Without zooms I have found when you are in a dramatic scene, a fixed focal length lens is a total no go. A fixed lens can get optimal results for that mm reach. I have had the good fortune over the last twenty years to be at the right place at the right time to photograph amazing scenes. My ability to afford doing that is rapidly declining though. A fixed lens to me is far from the answer. Yesterday I took out a 50mm prime lens. I took off a zoom and came to regret it for about 48 of 50 shots. It is the only lens I took.

So to me the 200-500 is exciting. I have said this before on this NR thread....I have met guys with very extensive Nikon glass that were renting the 200-500 and planned to sell the far more expensive lens based on about a week of use.

The quality and price of this lens is simply amazing! Every single future acquisition I contemplate with Nikon Gear involves how well it could work on this wonderful lens! Apparently it is quite good on Z6 with the FTZ in either stills or video. Of course you’d get some less than perfect photos. The entire question to me to be honest is....what Nikon body would be best for purchase? D750, D7500 which I already have used, or a Z6. Not much left to decide. BandH prices just fell a small amount on their Z6 FTZ, 24-70 S lens, and QCD 32GB Card, with a few other gadgets. If a D760 came out it would at first be too expensive.

FreezeAction

If a D760 is released near the $2500 mark then I'll buy if the specs meet my wants. The cost for me would not be the $2500 but rather the per diem for travel. That adds up fast and once on location I really want nothing left to chance over $500-$1,000. It's most important not to repeat a trip because I didn't have the tool for the job. I love my D7200 and D500 and some days sorely miss my D810. I want a body that can out perform my dx bodies in low light as well as detail in larger prints with some buffer and fps to boot. From what I've been able to find out the Z6 is lacking in buffer possibly and it's a few pixels short by 25%. Just my thoughts. The actual zoom is to slow on the 200-500mm for efficient use for other than stills. I love the lens and the days it is not used are far and few between now the ice age of winter has past. For shooting on sets I'd still like a 400mm 2.8 with a 2X TC on it for the reach for farther away from the subjects for less shutter noise to rattle them. This also does not depend on the f8 focal points to autofocus. I do think it is not justifiable for the tremendous expense above the 200-500mm with the 1.4 TC on it.

ADKDaveyJ

Now I am back to add D500 which I find hurt by no onboard flash to my short list of Nikon Camera bodies to purchase for a last hurrah type camera. My 200-500 lens, the fleet of 70-300s I own, including the one I now use the most, the AF-P DX VR, and consider buying again a D500 and 16-80, or the Nikon D7500 and 16-80, or the Z6, FTZ, 24-70 S f4, or the recently reduced price D750 which would unfortunately need Too a 24-120 which I do not think that great a lens.....So four possible Nikon bodies? Thom Hogan rates the D7500 and 16-80 an excellent combo and that was my finding too....based on my age there will not be too many cameras in my future as age and finances are closing in....there are apparently quite a few whomwonder if the Z6 is up to field rugged performance. Wish I still thought my beat up D7500 and 16-80 was capable of taking as good photos as it was earlier.....My family is pretty anti still and pro video! Add the cost of cards in the Nikon D500 to this decision! My son and grandson mostly use the D500 which now is in an Ikelite UW housing so that is now off limits to my use. I know it performs well that way. But I myself would not go UW with this last camera rig I am buying. I would stick to Go Pro for that mission. I also do not want to have to go Atomos Ninja five to take video. I need what video I uise right on the Camera.

retread

The lack of an on board flash does not bother me. I prefer to shoot with what ever light is available. Lens casts a shadow if I do not have a higher flash anyway. As I try to retire money is going to be tight for me, that is why the last few years I have tried to build a kit I can live with. Next camera, if there is one, will be a FX (D850 maybe) for what I shoot Z7 just is not there yet.

ADKDaveyJ

I take off the lens hood if it is going to cause a shadow. Available light in construction, farming, field work is not always enough....perhaps a D850 is another camera I need to consider......

mhedges

Buffer is not at all an issue on Z6. I’ve read those complaints and they are ridiculous. You can’t outrun the buffer at all shooting at normal high frame rate. It is possible to outrun it on the extended modes but only after 3-4 second bursts, and even then you still get 4-5 FPS. You can’t really compare XQD buffer with SD just by looking at number of shots to fill it. Because XQD clears the buffer so fast.

For all practical purposes I consider the Z6 to have an unlimited buffer at all frame rate settings. I never shoot more than 2 or 3 seconds continuous.

ADKDaveyJ

I don’t shoot high speed stills almost at all. Video or regular stills....mhedges Z6 seems to be the most compelling NR advice for me. My son and grandson think getting the lens closer to the sensor is of great importance. The Z6 looks like one of my best options. Up til now my best results were with the D7500 and 16-80 and 200-500 with once in awhile the 70-300 usually on the D7200 as the best options I had. Prices moderating some what on the Z6, FTZ.,24-70 S f4 And QCD Card helps sort things out more.....At my age this might be the End of the Line.....for a PhD Fishery Scientist And lifelong farmer, that is perhaps a closing chapter. My son and grandson continue to major in imagery that is more techie and demanding. And that seems to be the nature of ommercial photowork.

Pistnbroke

cut off the bottom petal on your lens hood and reverse it so the cut off is at the top when you use flash ..or just take it off . I have a flash shoe adaptor on my wide angle its just a Nikon to Nikon adaptor about 3/4 inch high lifts the flash up Pixel TF 322 ( Click on the bottom menu item to get a good view)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pixel-TF-332-Hot-Shoe-Converter-Mini-Adapter-for-Nikon-Camera-3-5-PC-Sync-Socket/382559306912?hash=item59124fc4a0:m:mGxLN5wNy2f7PjzxFRgy9nw

Pistnbroke

Strange this lens was never tested by DXO but all the tamron and Sigma equivalents were. any thoughts?

FreezeAction

I too wondered why.... Would like to have seen it tested on the D850 as well as the D500. I will do my own print tests hopefully Thursday finally using images from a tripod and a D500. A plus 5 correction was made and the images look very good on a monitor but a hard copy tells the tale for me. While I'm at it I will make some prints from D7200 images as well. All from RAW to TIF.

Ton14

Put a couple on PAD please with your comments.

daveznspace

As far as the VR goes I just got to some pix from last month that I took on a D750 of an owl and shutter speeds were between 1/15 to 1/100.

Not great pix but they are handheld and it was -27 (in am), -30 (in pm) degrees below zero so I'd say it works quite well.

Just ran them through NX-D really quick so I can go find some northern harriers at sun up, just thought I'd add some examples.

Look at the couple of pix where his eyes were frozen shut, was fffffffffckin cold! lol

img.gg/ABXX9DS


As for popup flash... I really kinda dislike it but it's saved my *ss more times then I can remember.

FreezeAction

@Ton14 Over the last few days I have collected some prints that are suitable for testing. Tomorrow it rains and I put the camera down long enough to run some prints on an Epson SC 800. Some have been already posted on PAD. One print will be an 11x17 after cropping some. I'm anxious to see how some of the high ISO images print. The D810 is a standard to compare to for me. I have many raw files at up to ISO 10,000 to compare to from a D810. 2 or 3 of the last few days of PAD posts have been very limited edits with a D500 and a 200-500mm lens. I did a calibration on the lens to +5.

FreezeAction

@Ton14 How about any discussion here rather than in PAD. I will put this in PAD maybe tomorrow. First the edited file I cropped from and then a couple of the printing process. I washed out a lot of the image as it came out of the printer but the colors are very close to the original. The image hanging up is a long way off on white balance with no decent light of any kind being used.

D500, 200-500mm f5.6, ƒ/5.6, 500.0 mm, 1/320, ISO 2200

Original 11x17" image full resolution
https://www.flickr.com/photos/8317813@N03/47402751832/in/dateposted-public/

Coming out of the printer
https://www.flickr.com/photos/8317813@N03/40501256673/in/dateposted-public/

Hanging image with no flash
https://www.flickr.com/photos/8317813@N03/40501256563/in/dateposted-public/

The main thing here of my interest is the image quality all the way from the sensor to the final print in the juvenile bird's feathers as well as the bokeh separation. Please any Critical Criticism welcome. My eyes aren't what they used to be.

Ton14

Oei, you asked something here. The original is f/5.6 - 1/320 and ISO 2200 with 500mm, The biggest difference between DX and FF is the luminance noise for me, I don't mind some luminance noise in photo's, but higher ISO is less dynamic range and detail, but here we see how good the 200-500mm lens is, more then enough detail here.

There was some wind, due to the light you could not get a faster shutter speed and the bird is sharp, so you have just the problems we all have to deal with, nothing wrong.

FreezeAction

Ton14 said:

Oei, you asked something here. The original is f/5.6 - 1/320 and ISO 2200 with 500mm, The biggest difference between DX and FF is the luminance noise for me, I don't mind some luminance noise in photo's, but higher ISO is less dynamic range and detail, but here we see how good the 200-500mm lens is, more then enough detail here.

There was some wind, due to the light you could not get a faster shutter speed and the bird is sharp, so you have just the problems we all have to deal with, nothing wrong.

Agreed on the noise factor. Miss my D810 sorely. I think the 200-500 is going to get a workout of still subjects when the light is low and/or windy on a Z6. Meantime it still loves to hang off the D500 in fair weather. The detail is much better than I dreamed of before I bought it as most of the photos of birds are in flight where close up detail is not revealed. Thanks for your reply.

mhedges

Hey @ADKDaveyJ looks like there's a one day deal on refurb D7500's. May want to check it out.

ADKDaveyJ

The refurbished deals are not a good deal,if you want a 16-80. Both refurbished are only 165 difference from the new D7500 with a new kit 16-80 lens so for me it is a no go.

Pistnbroke

@Freeze action.

If I was out in the woodland I would not have even photographed this bird due to the foliage in front of its body. I am not clear if you took it specifically for a test shot.
For a test shot I would have picked a Duck on water. Small birds like your test subject have a very fast heart rate which always makes them shake.
I know what you mean by eyesight !! With all things photography if you are happy then I am happy and I am very happy with my 200-500.

FreezeAction

Pistnbroke said:

@Freeze action.

If I was out in the woodland I would not have even photographed this bird due to the foliage in front of its body. I am not clear if you took it specifically for a test shot.
For a test shot I would have picked a Duck on water. Small birds like your test subject have a very fast heart rate which always makes them shake.
I know what you mean by eyesight !! With all things photography if you are happy then I am happy and I am very happy with my 200-500.

I'm very happy with both the 200-500 and the D500 it's welded to.

trolley

So, we have sunshine in the UK! I put my TC-14EII onto the D850 & bolted on the 200-500. And... no autofocus & Δ0 for aperture. Changed from A to M, same. Took everything off & cleaned the contacts - nada.
That combo worked on the D800 - slowly, mind. If I manually move the 'cam' on the D850 body, then I get an aperture displayed. So, does this mean the TC-14EII doesn't work on the D850? It seems it's not coupling, but I can't find anything on Nikon to say it won't work.
And I don't have another lens which is compatible with the TC. But the 200-500 is fine on its own

FreezeAction

trolley said:

So, we have sunshine in the UK! I put my TC-14EII onto the D850 & bolted on the 200-500. And... no autofocus & Δ0 for aperture. Changed from A to M, same. Took everything off & cleaned the contacts - nada.
That combo worked on the D800 - slowly, mind. If I manually move the 'cam' on the D850 body, then I get an aperture displayed. So, does this mean the TC-14EII doesn't work on the D850? It seems it's not coupling, but I can't find anything on Nikon to say it won't work.
And I don't have another lens which is compatible with the TC. But the 200-500 is fine on its own

It should work if your shutter speed is slow enough or your ISO is high enough to use an aperture of f8. Mine works fine on a D500 at f8. The specs state that the D850 has several focus points that will auto at f8 on the D850. I haven't tried it on a D850 yet but I have to believe it will auto focus.