NIKON...MIRROR LESS NOW WITH FIRMWARE UPDATE

BVS

With both Nikon and Canon poised to release FF mirrorless later this year, now seems like the worst time to buy anything, mirrorless or DSLR, unless it's an emergency.

rmp

Agree: hold on buying any new camera.

WestEndFoto

Applies to lenses as well. I took quite a gamble last fall.

Hiker

snakebunk said:

@Hiker: What is stopping you from buying a Sony camera? It sounds like you have already made up your mind.

I'm just spreading the news...this is after all a rumors forum, correct? And the title of this post is Nikon Mirrorless Fail. Right now? Nikon is failing. As for me buying anything right now? Well that's my business. But since you seemed to be interested, I'm waiting until the holidays. By then we should know what Nikon and Canon will be doing. THEN I will make a decision as to what mirrorless option I go for. But the Sony A7iii is high on the list right now. Once again...I'll say it....IF Nikon and Canon do not match or exceed what the A7iii is capable of (and it's not a perfect camera, what is?) then they wasted our time imho.

Capt_Spaulding

Hiker, Please don't take this personally, that is not my intent. I think what some are wondering is why you take the time to create a deluge of posts 1) seemingly attempting to drive current Nikonistas away from the marque and 2) waxing orgasmic about a camera that most here know about, but for a variety of personal and professional reasons have limited to no interest in.

To be sure, Nikon is late to this particular party. But many, yours truly included, believe what they are making now is just about the best one can get in their class. Not so long ago, I thought you were pretty happy with their products. I have made no secret of my reservations about all things Sony. My reasons are, I think, well considered. If the rest of the photographic world wants to jump off the fantail with them - go for it. The negativity just gets a little repetitive after a while. I suggest taking a wait and see pill until we know what Nikon has up their sleeve. It may be a complete bust, or it may shift the paradigm. We'll know soon enough - for me at least.

snakebunk

@Hiker: Thanks for your answer. I don't mind reading your posts but I was wondering about your frustration (that I thought I could read into your posts). I think the reason Nikon is slow to do mirrorless is that they are among the best to make DSLRs. But I also don't fully understand their strategy. Mostly I wish they would be more open about their plans.

I don't know your needs and current equipment, but if you need a new camera and the situation remains the same, maybe you can buy a Sony camera and a useful lense and use together with your Nikon gear while the mist of the future clears up?

Btw, I think you should look at Olympus as well.

Pistnbroke

Olympus....best you can do is 20 MP and thats " fine " until you put a 7.5mm on it and cram that 105 deg picture onto 20 mp .. Remember we prefer 36 + MP for landscapes and wide angles which is why we use FX. Sony worries me because of the lack of service or firmware updates so if you go Sony insurance is your friend.

Msmoto

I am waiting... primarily for a mirrorless from Nikon which will use the large number of Nikkor lenses in my kit. My concern is that a few of the lenses I currently have are so incredibly sharp, the SOB lenses may not hold up. (SOB = some other brand).

And, to have the capabilities from fisheye to long tele.... yikes, did someone say money?

Just have to wait.... for the "Nikon Fail" to change into a Nikon Win"...

Pistnbroke

hail nikon Win..let us pray

WestEndFoto

If I am laying awake at night thinking about something relating to photography, it is about how to take better pictures, which for me is really, "How do I become a better artist."

"Almost" the only gear related factor that relates to this for me are factors that related to image quality. 90% of that is lenses. The other 10% mostly relates to sensor resolution and dynamic range which are factors that are almost indistinguishable between Nikon and Sony. In fact, for full frame cameras:

Lenses:
1st place: Nikon or Canon (if you asked me to pick one, I would pick Nikon based on the recent 28, 105, 400, 500, 600 etc. But I think it is possible to convince me otherwise.
2nd place: Canon or Nikon
3rd place: Sony (significantly behind - for example, the recent 24-70 2.8 has only caught up to Nikon's G equivalent)

Sensor Resolution:
1st place: Canon
2nd place: Nikon
3rd place: Sony
But really, they are all close enough not to really matter.

Sensor Dynamic Range:
1st place: Nikon
2nd place: Sony
3rd place: Canon (Significantly behind)

I say "almost" because since I have kids, there is some action photography. If you are a sports action news photographer, auto-focus becomes very important and the ranking becomes:
1st place: Nikon (
2nd place: Sony
3rd place: Canon

That is it. I could care less about other factors. Weight is not a factor because for me great lenses are all pretty heavy and a heavier camera is actually slightly better. I could care less about an optical for electronic viewfinder. I used to care about batteries, but my D850 with the D5 battery is essentially limitless.

The only thing that matters about camera gear is that it does not get in the way of my artistic vision. That is why I have 21 "active use" lenses that range in price from about $500 to $15,000. Since 90% of what matters is in the lenses, the camera quite frankly is an afterthought.

And here is the thing, if I was financially constrained I would still be an artist with a D3300, 35mm 1.8 and an 18-300 superzoom. As I become less financially constrained, I upgrade the lenses first and the body last. For this reason, I believe that people that spend too much time thinking about the cameras are probably not really photographers and very probably not artists. And I say "probably" - there will be a few exceptions. An exception being sports action and news photographers: But Hiker, you are probably not one of these.

So I assume that people here are financially constrained to one degree or another - even me - if money was truly no object I would have Phase One kit in addition to my Nikon gear. So I can understand someone getting worked up over lenses, but not cameras (again, unless you are a sports action and news photographer). Think of the cost that goes with changing a supplier over a camera, unless you have no lenses, then you should be investing in them, not cameras.

And one final comment - perhaps we should all post our portfolios when we comment on gear. THAT would be interesting.

rmp

Good discussion. I like reading about the thinking that goes into the gear.

HankB

WestEndFoto, you left out one thing in your insightful piece — mass market perception of the photo equipment. The mass market, or at least the interchangeable lens system buying portion of the mass market, provide the sales volume to support the manufacturer's R&D and the completeness of the manufacturer's system. And even quality control.

Regardless of the soundness of judgment behind the mass market's perceptions, those perceptions are what they are. And I suspect camera bodies are as or more important then lenses in their perceptions.

WestEndFoto

Yes HankB, I agree with you. But I am am speaking to those who aspire beyond the masses. I certainly appreciate that the consumer masses support my hobby.

Hiker

Wow...really?? All those posts of mine, which are MY opinion? And "I'm taking it personally"?! And "I'm frustrated"?! Really???!!!

WestEndFoto

You do sound a little frustrated. And Capt_ Spaulding has a view and is worried about you taking it personally. You are certainly entitled to your views.

If you read my own comments, they are aimed at a general audience that may fall into the trap that I think you are falling into and that I have fallen into before. Namely, getting wound up in gear and forgetting or not understanding what the point of photography should be (in my opinion).

sport

Hiker said:

Wow...really?? All those posts of mine, which are MY opinion? And "I'm taking it personally"?! And "I'm frustrated"?! Really???!!!

Your posts come across as frustrated to me as well. It looks to me like a lot of Nikon users are waiting to see what they come out with and will jump ship if they don't meet or exceed what the A7III specs list.

It doesn't really matter to me what camera Nikon comes out with as I think they are just tools. But we should keep in mind a couple of things before the new camera comes out:

- Nikon has been making very good mirrorless cameras for several years in the Nikon 1 line.
- Nikon has been consistent with releasing very good semi-pro and pro cameras. D500, D800-D850, and Dx cameras have all been top rated cameras when they were released.

rmp

The D850 continues to rack up awards. What is the probability that the mirror-less-to-be is a better camera that the D850?

snakebunk

rmp said:

The D850 continues to rack up awards. What is the probability that the mirror-less-to-be is a better camera that the D850?

Good question. If it is intended to be a replacement for the D850 I think it must not be worse than the D850 and needs to have some improvements. Things I wish for and expect include a more quite shutter and better focus point coverage. But I still think the D810 is a great camera so I will not rush to anything. Mostly I hope it will be a success for Nikon and followed by even greater cameras.

rmp

I cannot see Nikon going backward. I still believe Nikon is king of glass.

If I were Nikon-king-for-a-day, I would push 3 mirror-less cameras, all with new glass and mounts for old glass. (Do your business or get off the pot.)

FX - better IQ than D850, at 50 mp
DX - better than D500 at 25 mp
CX - better low-light IQ than V3 at 12 mp

All with much better work flow including direct re-sizing and direct posting to social media or smart phone. And all smaller and lighter than their DSLR counter part.

mhedges

I really hope they do not do three different mirrorless systems. That's crazy. I'm not even a huge fan of doing two systems, but that seems to be the way the market is right now.

HankB

I think the three biggest risks to a very successful mirrorless introduction are poor compatibility with F-mount lenses, poor quality control, and not responding quickly and effectively to fix and make amends for any missteps. But I really do believe Nikon will do this well, even if proper execution impacts profitability for a couple of quarters.

As for the mirrorless equivalent (not necessarily a replacement) to the D850, it can't help but have a totally silent electronic shutter, a mechanical shutter that is quieter than any DSLR's mirror banging around, and a full sensor focus point coverage.

Hiker

WestEndFoto said:

You do sound a little frustrated. And Capt_ Spaulding has a view and is worried about you taking it personally. You are certainly entitled to your views.



If you read my own comments, they are aimed at a general audience that may fall into the trap that I think you are falling into and that I have fallen into before. Namely, getting wound up in gear and forgetting or not understanding what the point of photography should be (in my opinion).

Again...REALLY???!!!! I have an opinion and "I'm frustrated". And I'm STILL "taking it personally"? Once again, I'm just reporting what I've been reading. Nikon Rumors isn't the only Nikon forum btw..

snakebunk

@Hiker: Ok, you are not frustrated. Sorry for getting you wrong, but I am happy that you are happy .

spraynpray

Nikon can bring out a whole mirrorless array if they want, but I am very happy with my old-tech D850. So far, it's all good.

Pistnbroke

Changing the tack slightly the second hand market has dropped through the floor ..advertised my D7100 and 200 lookers but no buyers ..not found this before . wonder if it the uncertainty in whats to come that is holding them back... ??