NIKON...MIRROR LESS NOW WITH FIRMWARE UPDATE

WestEndFoto

Capt_Spaulding, the part about Phase Detect impacting image quality should give one pause about wanting sensor based phase detection.

BVS

WestEndFoto said:

Capt_Spaulding, the part about Phase Detect impacting image quality should give one pause about wanting sensor based phase detection.

My understanding is that there are different types of on-sensor PDAF. The "masked pixel" type that Sony uses can produce striping artifacts, while the dual pixel AF that Canon uses (for example) supposedly does not. However, dual pixel reportedly requires more processing power.

BVS

Pistnbroke said:

ANNOUNCEMENT..

Nikon Mirror less by spring 2019........2019 WTF

Total mirror less fail .

Thom has elaborated a bit more on this now. Apparently is just means that Nikon mirrorless is coming sometime in this fiscal year which ends in Spring 2019.

From bythom.com/:

"Nikon has been going around Tokyo giving executive interviews. This is normal practice prior to their fiscal year report. The product messaging has been relatively consistent out of these interviews: Nikon's high-end mirrorless program will be released in the current fiscal year (ends March 31, 2019). That's usually expressed as "in the current fiscal year" or "by spring 2019" in those interviews. I think Nikon is being a bit coy. While a lot of Internet speculation is that whatever they come up with isn't near ready due to these comments, I think the statements represent two things: (1) Nikon doesn't wish to give away their hand; and (2) it's likely that the exact date they launch is dependent upon when they get sensors in the quantity they need, and that they will be using a new sensor. dpreview's quick news item on the NHK interview is wrong in a couple of places: this is not the first time Nikon has indicated a fiscal 2019 launch, plus Goto-san's statement in China was from a former Director of Development, and was his opinion of what Nikon should do, not a statement from Nikon itself. "

Hiker

WestEndFoto said:

Where did you see that?

Fro Knows had a quick video and one of the subjects was this article. Loosely translated it said the same thing. Nikon mirrorless in 2019.

WestEndFoto

Thom’s comments are likely correct. I am going to start having my half Japanese son read those for me.

Hiker

So, this AM I'm reading the front of Nikon Rumors home page, and now Nikon will be releasing a mirrorless full frame camera THIS year. "They are rushing to have it complete"???? Did I read that right? Rushing?? I (hope I'm wrong) can see it now, their first entrance of a full frame mirrorless camera will be fraught with issues. If this is so, it will just prove my point that Sony knows what they are doing, and Nikon was doing what normal big corporations do. Cut twice, measure once...and Nikon is worried.

WestEndFoto

Hiker said:

So, this AM I'm reading the front of Nikon Rumors home page, and now Nikon will be releasing a mirrorless full frame camera THIS year. "They are rushing to have it complete"???? Did I read that right? Rushing?? I (hope I'm wrong) can see it now, their first entrance of a full frame mirrorless camera will be fraught with issues. If this is so, it will just prove my point that Sony knows what they are doing, and Nikon was doing what normal big corporations do. Cut twice, measure once...and Nikon is worried.

I think that you have to be careful reading too much into a translation. And sometimes I rush to perfectly execute something in my own job and it IS perfectly executed.

Hiker

I think that you have to be careful reading too much into a translation. And sometimes I rush to perfectly execute something in my own job and it IS perfectly executed.

My point was that Nikon, IF they are rushing, could be subject to issues. But then again, most think Nikon has been asleep at the wheel regarding mirrorless. "We are the future" doesn't seem to be a motto they talk about.

HankB

This is a major, major project for the camera division of the company. They will be working hard and some will be rushing around — this goes without saying!

The actual wording of press releases, sanctioned leaks, or spy intel will tell you exactly zero about how well the program is really going and how good the execution will be.

If company management properly supports the program, allocates needed resources, and makes sure the program manager(s) have a good grip on its teams, and then is properly and timely reporting back up to corporate, then all will be well. [VW's diesel fiasco is an example of where program management was not properly supervised and went rogue (or was it collusion with corporate marketing dept?)].

This program is too important to Nikon for them to screw it up.

Capt_Spaulding

What all the date confusion MAY mean is Nikon is hedging their bets. Suppose you were on track to release a revolutionary new product in August, but you've been burned in the past by last minute bugs pushing back release dates. Would you announce your August date or say "by the end of the fiscal year?" I'm a bit risk averse so I'd probably opt to under promise and over deliver. It seems to me Nikon did just that with the D850 and it seems to have paid off.

As to Sony knowing what they are doing, the Photography Life piece raises a number of questions about that. I guess it depends on just to what "knowing what they're doing" refers. When it comes to separating customers from their hard earned cash, Sony seems to me to have always known that they're doing. When it comes to actual product capabilities the answer becomes a bit murkier. My limited experience with their photo products does nothing to clear that up.

If the issues Nasim identifies are real, then Sony's operationalization of mirrorless has some serious flaws that just might make it vulnerable to a good competing product. My take from his article is that Sony knows 1) electronics and 2) how to make money. They appear to have a weaker grasp on photography. Nikon knows photography. Will that translate into another home run? I wouldn't count them out. Time will tell. And, I really don't like Sony.

mhedges

Eh. I read that article. Seemed a little clickbait-ey. It’s not like people don’t complain about Nikons menus and customization options. And his complaints about the LPF coatings were nuts. It’s not Sony’s job to make sure their stuff is compatible with the sensor cleaning widget he’s hawking.

WestEndFoto

The weather sealing is a real issue.

BVS

Hiker said:

So, this AM I'm reading the front of Nikon Rumors home page, and now Nikon will be releasing a mirrorless full frame camera THIS year. "They are rushing to have it complete"???? Did I read that right? Rushing?? I (hope I'm wrong) can see it now, their first entrance of a full frame mirrorless camera will be fraught with issues. If this is so, it will just prove my point that Sony knows what they are doing, and Nikon was doing what normal big corporations do. Cut twice, measure once...and Nikon is worried.

I think it just means something like "it's our top priority item and all hands are on deck working on it".

Personally, I wouldn't stress too much. Nikon's recent history of releases has been pretty solid, and I'm sure they realize what's at stake. If it turns out to indeed be a dud or plagued with issues then we and every other reviewer get to give them a swift kick in the nuts and carry on using our perfectly fine DSLRs for a while longer.

Hiker

mhedges said:

Eh. I read that article. Seemed a little clickbait-ey. It’s not like people don’t complain about Nikons menus and customization options. And his complaints about the LPF coatings were nuts. It’s not Sony’s job to make sure their stuff is compatible with the sensor cleaning widget he’s hawking.

I too just read that same article. It does bring to attention some things. But the battery compartment? Menus? Etc.? Not to concerned about that. I may be old but not stupid...I think.. I'm waiting until the holidays to see what comes out new or fixed or, well..new. My question from reading that article was no lossless compressed? I'm currently shooting a D7200. Trying to remember if the 7200 has lossless compressed or not.

WestEndFoto

Hiker said:

mhedges said:

Eh. I read that article. Seemed a little clickbait-ey. It’s not like people don’t complain about Nikons menus and customization options. And his complaints about the LPF coatings were nuts. It’s not Sony’s job to make sure their stuff is compatible with the sensor cleaning widget he’s hawking.

I too just read that same article. It does bring to attention some things. But the battery compartment? Menus? Etc.? Not to concerned about that. I may be old but not stupid...I think.. I'm waiting until the holidays to see what comes out new or fixed or, well..new. My question from reading that article was no lossless compressed? I'm currently shooting a D7200. Trying to remember if the 7200 has lossless compressed or not.

Just look in the menu and see.

mhedges

I'm pretty sure the 7xxx cameras do. I know my 5500 does not. My only option is lossy compressed.

BVS

Hiker said:

mhedges said:

Eh. I read that article. Seemed a little clickbait-ey. It’s not like people don’t complain about Nikons menus and customization options. And his complaints about the LPF coatings were nuts. It’s not Sony’s job to make sure their stuff is compatible with the sensor cleaning widget he’s hawking.

I too just read that same article. It does bring to attention some things. But the battery compartment? Menus? Etc.? Not to concerned about that. I may be old but not stupid...I think.. I'm waiting until the holidays to see what comes out new or fixed or, well..new. My question from reading that article was no lossless compressed? I'm currently shooting a D7200. Trying to remember if the 7200 has lossless compressed or not.

Yes, D7200 (and the rest of the D7XXX series) has lossless compressed. Only the D3XXX and D5XXX series don't. The D5XXX series is limited to 14bit lossy compressed, and the D3XXX series is limited to 12bit lossy compressed.

Hiker

Speaking of Nikon and mirrorless, and Sony. Nikon seems to update their bodies firmware quite a bit and it seems to affect some in camera operations. Does Sony have this issue or are they better with firmware updates?

Pistnbroke

The firmware updates are usually to add new lenses to the firmware memory bank. Personally if its working fine I don't update.. we have third party batteries that wont work.must use Lexar or sandisc or wont work , third party flash that works on a D800 but not a D810 and third party grips that work but don't show right battery data ...just don't trust them ...They could easily cut out any third party lens on a new mirrorless if they wanted.

HankB

Good point. Unlike computers and phones, photo equipment doesn't have to deal with the never ending technology race between hackers and the defense, so there usually isn't the need to "upgrade".

mhedges

Pistnbroke said:

The firmware updates are usually to add new lenses to the firmware memory bank. Personally if its working fine I don't update.. we have third party batteries that wont work.must use Lexar or sandisc or wont work , third party flash that works on a D800 but not a D810 and third party grips that work but don't show right battery data ...just don't trust them ...They could easily cut out any third party lens on a new mirrorless if they wanted.

Also there are two firmwares - one for the camera, and one for the lens correction. Not that the camera firmware doesn't support the lenses - like for example, many cameras needed firmware updates to drive the AF-P lenses.

Agree about 3rd party and mirrorless. Honestly I don't see how 3P survives long term without some kind of licensing agreement.

PB_PM

Hiker said:

Speaking of Nikon and mirrorless, and Sony. Nikon seems to update their bodies firmware quite a bit and it seems to affect some in camera operations. Does Sony have this issue or are they better with firmware updates?

1 time a year, if that, for most models is “quite a bit”? I don’t count distortion control updates to be the same as body firmware, since that is updated more regularly to support new lenses.

As for Sony, ha, they dont update firmware at all, they want you to buy a new camera to fix the problems they have. When they have issues, you just have to live with it. I think the A7r II is the only E mount camera to ever get one, and that was because users complained that there was no lossless RAW file option

spraynpray

Looking at the blog, it seems that most people will be pleased with the likely spec of the new FX mirrorless so far.

If it all comes to fruition it should silence most of you burnt out cynics - well, maybe with the exception of Pistnbroke!

Pistnbroke

Clearly a race between Canon and Nikon because if Canon gets one out well in advance of Nikon its game over. Looks like for Photokina in Sept and I hope it does well and works well... For me the pair of D810s can stay for the weddings which are dying . ( and killing me)To induce me to buy would need more pixel density than the DX 24 mp for the bird photography so 60MP FX or 30+ for DX and I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.

Hiker

1 time a year, if that, for most models is “quite a bit”? I don’t count distortion control updates to be the same as body firmware, since that is updated more regularly to support new lenses.

As for Sony, ha, they dont update firmware at all, they want you to buy a new camera to fix the problems they have. When they have issues, you just have to live with it. I think the A7r II is the only E mount camera to ever get one, and that was because users complained that there was no lossless RAW file option


There has been 2 updates for the D7200 since I bought it. And why do they need to update a camera to support new lenses??!! And we are all hoping the new mirrorless camera from Nikon will be what?? As to Sony and no updates, maybe they don't have to have firmware updates? Don't know much about Sony..yet.. but i'm investigating for sure.