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Comments
But this number is extremely deceptive. One of the things I discovered in surveying tens of thousands of enthusiast digital camera users is that they upgrade bodies regularly. So consider someone who started with a Nikon D70, then upgraded to a D90, a D7100, and recently to a D7500 (that's an every-other generation upgrade). If they followed the attachment rate, they'd now have 6.4 lenses for their camera on average. What my surveys showed is that this isn't quite right. The on-going updater actually has an average of 8-10 lenses, which would imply an attachment rate of something closer to 2.
Nice gear by the way.
But you seem to have lost some facts:
Fact:
The f-mount has been around since 1959. From AIS, introduced in 1977, moving forward, basically all of the lenses are compatible with today's cameras.
Fact:
Nikon even introduced a camera recently to take advantage of those pre-1973 pre-AIS lenses (the DF).
Fact:
Nikon is one of the only two SLR manufacturers that did not abandon the mount prior to the introduction of auto-focus. Yes, Pentax did the same with the K-mount.
Fact:
Despite Canon abandoning their mount upon the introduction of auto-focus to introduce a mount optimized for auto=focus, the best auto-focus that money can buy today is a Nikon D5 (Nikon D850 a close second) with a Nikkor lens. They have accomplished this with a mount that was introduced 28 years before Canon brought out a new mount optimized for auto-focus. Opinion: I suspect that their was something about the Canon mount in its day that made it inferior to Nikon for auto-focus purposes.
Fact:
Numerous Nikon reps have assured me that the f-mount will continue to be supported and/or never be abandoned. Nikon rep = Nikon.
All of the above are "facts" that have convinced me to stay with the f-mount. Now to your point, Nikon has not signed a binding agreement, but their actions and the above "facts" are evidence. If you are a new consumer trying to decide which system to go with and your sole criteria is the likelihood that the mount will continue in the future, then Nikon is still your first choice, with Canon a close second.
So yes, betrayal may be to strong a word, but those are the facts. If I can no longer use the f-mount, the replacement will not be Nikon no matter how good it is. Probably Canon.......
But as I have said above, I am not really too worried about that. And if worse comes to worse, I can afford to make a change.
I'm in the same boat as you. I have a Rollei 6x6 TLR, 3 Minolta MF 35mm bodies and about 8 lenses in the MC/MD mount. At present, I can't bring myself to part with them. If I did, the lot probably wouldn't return enough to make it worth the time. I may, someday, use one of them again, but I wouldn't wager that will happen. My kids will probably be sorting through them one of these days asking, "what on earth is this?"
I have two DSLR bodies and 2.5 lenses for each of them. Of those, a couple see 80+% of the use. When I finally order the 200-500 that'll make it 3 per. Not what I'd call a serious collection. That said, I suspect people who hang out on gear oriented camera sites are probably atypical DSLR buyers.
Your last comment reminds me of a remark a gun collector friend made one time. Something like, "When I die I really hope my wife doesn't sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them."
There are a few of them too! ;-)
1] Does "If I can no longer use the f-mount..." mean you would be willing to use the f-mount with an inexpensive, well designed adapter?
2] Would you go Canon because Nikon would just now be abandoning an obsolete mount whereas Canon did the inevitable [moved to a technically less constraining, modern mount] back when it "betrayed" its customers several decades ago? Or is there a different reason to switch to Canon?
3] Would you jump ship before it becomes obvious that Nikon will no longer fully support its DSLR line [DSLR and mirrorless might coexist as separate Nikon lines]?
I would go to Canon because Canon has good lenses. Yeah, their photon detectors are not as good, but that is an ephemeral choice. Sony has decent photon detectors if you ignore the fact that you can’t take them in the rain. But their lenses are mediocre.
Regarding timing on jumping ship, that would depend on the circumstances. For example, if Nikon did it in a way that was not obvious, I might jump ship early while I could maximize the recovery from my Nikon gear. I could even imagine a scenario where I buy another D850 for my current gear while I evolve to another line.
One thing I have been thinking about is a Fuji/Phase One Combo. Assuming that there is no “betrayal” from Nikon, I have been hoping that Nikon would eventually come out with a medium format line, and I don’t means “medium format light” like Fuji and Hasselblad. Between 5 to 10 years from now, I will likely adopt the best medium format option on the market. My current Nikon gear, assuming that I am still using it, would be good light travel gear.
As we've discussed in the past, I'd be extremely happy if Nikon kept using the F-mount for the same reasons that you do. I just don't think it's very likely, unfortunately. Over the past 6 months there have been more rumors and patients related to a new mount for the new mirrorless cameras and some rather fancy looking new mount to F-mount adapters posted on the main blog here. So as much as I am in the same camp as you, I've simply come to the realization that it isn't going to happen.
Canon has already shown that it will likely be dumping the EF mount in the mirrorless market, so don't expect loyally from them either.
And yes, sometimes the audience is the general reader.
Unfortunately, if Nikon does not remain committed to the f-mount, I predict that they will go out of business. Why would anybody buy expensive f-mount glass if they have to use an adapter? Even Sony users migrate off adapters as soon as their favourite lens is available in a native Sony mount.
And if not the f-mount, this new mount with 6 or 7 lens choices? What a sick joke, and the joke will be on Nikon.
If one wants small, then one can have a DX mirrorless line or something similar to what I have described above. If IQ is one’s main concern, then I can’t see how a 30mm empty space matters much.
Fact: Numerous Nikon reps have assured me that the f-mount will continue to be supported and/or never be abandoned. Nikon rep = Nikon.
This is the opinion of the sales rep and not fact. Do you really believe that the Nikon Sales Rep has been told by Nikon that they will be keeping the F-mount forever and that Nikon is withholding that information from their customers? What on earth would Nikon possibly gain from this? I know two Nikon Sales Representatives and one Technical Service Representative personally (flew to Spain to visit me in the hospital after I was attacked) and I know for a fact that they would not make that comment and would be fired if word got back to Nikon Corporate office. He may have prefaced it with it is my opinion, but it is far from being fact. All you have to do is look at what happened to Amy Vitale (Nikon Ambassador) when she mistakenly posted on Instagram that she had taken photos with a D5S. It was posted on the main forum and she caught a lot of grief over a simple error, so much so that if you look at her Instagram site she no longer includes in her notes what camera she used to capture her images.
“Fact: Despite Canon abandoning their mount upon the introduction of auto-focus to introduce a mount optimized for auto=focus, the best auto-focus that money can buy today is a Nikon D5 (Nikon D850 a close second) with a Nikkor lens. They have accomplished this with a mount that was introduced 28 years before Canon brought out a new mount optimized for auto-focus. Opinion: I suspect that their was something about the Canon mount in its day that made it inferior to Nikon for auto-focus purposes.”
This is your opinion and not fact. Auto-focusing is far more complex to make such a broad statement. There are a few reviews such as Thom Hogan that you are paraphrasing that makes similar statement but then goes on to explain that Canon and Sony are very close and there is no reference to the D850 being a close second. This was back in 2017 and not updated to for the Sony A7. This pertains to one camera the D5 and despite reports that the D500 and D850 as having the same autofocusing system they do not function as well as the D5.
“Fact: Nikon even introduced a camera recently to take advantage of those pre-1973 pre-AIS lenses (the DF).”
Fact: With limitations:
"Nikon retained the original Nikon FE's ability to flip-up the AI aperture coupling lever, so for a first for any unmodified Nikon DSLR, we can flip the lever out of the way and mount our original Nikon F Mount lenses all the way back to 1959!
The only gotcha with unmodified Nikon F mount lenses that were made from 1959-1976 is that there is no way to couple the aperture into the camera; there is no original top-center feeler rod to couple manually to the lens' prong. With F mount lenses, you have to set the camera via the camera command dial to the same f/stop you set on your lens. More practically, I'll use stop-down metering (and AE lock if in AE) with F Mount lenses, exactly as we do with the Nikon FE." Ken Rockwell
" the moment you mount a manual focus manual aperture lens (pre-AI, AI, AIs), the Shutter Priority Mode becomes completely useless, no matter what Shutter Speed you set it to – the camera will automatically set the shutter speed and will disregard the set value on the dial" Photography Life review of DF
This website has some interesting information concerning the history of Nikon and Canon.
medium.learningbyshipping.com/nikon-versus-canon-a-story-of-technology-change-45777098038c
You have used the words "photon detector" to describe a camera on the main blog and was beat up for using that term and now you are using it here. I don't know if you are using it to elicit a response or what that naïve or what but it comes across as idiotic to make a statement like that for a camera(s) that Nikon spends millions of dollars researching and developing and that is critical for auto focusing (that you praise as fact), exposure metering, etc. "photon detector" sends the message that this person does not know what he is talking about. The camera is a complicated computer that does far more that detect photons.
24mm f/1.4G
Sigma 35mm f/1.4 (Better focusing and IQ than Nikon)
Sigma 85mm f/1.4 (Better focusing and IQ than Nikon)
105mm f/1.4E
105mm f/2.8G Micro
200mm f/2
300mm f/4E
400mm f/2.8E
500mm f/4E
600mm f/4E
14-24mm f/2.8G
16-80mm f/2.8-4E
24-70mm f/2.8G
24-70mm f/2.8E
70-200mm f/2.8E
70-200mm f/2.8G
200-400mm f/4G
2 D850's with a third on order
3 D810's
1 D500
1 D5
1 D3500
However.....
I also did not say that the statements of the Nikon reps are facts, merely that they said them, which is a fact. For all I know they are smoking dope, but it is a fact that they made those statements. Hmm.......unless you think I am a liar. If you think that, please go on record.
Regarding Thom's opinion, if you can direct me to another reviewer that has tested both Nikon and Sony to the extent he has, particularly a 1.4 lens wide open, and is as demonstrably impartial as he is, I am happy (and intrigued) to listen. However, until that happens, I will accept it as a fact. However, let me stipulate that it is not fact and merely an opinion. However, the Sony is the only real candidate that creates an argument and I was talking about Nikon vs Canon. So I stand by my original statement when comparing Nikon's and Canon's mount history - which is despite Canon designing a whole new mount that is two decades younger than Nikon, Nikon still beats it in auto-focus (for now). So do you still have a point?
When I use the term photon detector, I am making a point and expressing an opinion, namely that any advantage a camera manufacturer ekes out is temporary and will likely be exceeded by the competition in the next generation, unlike what in my view really counts in the long term, lenses. It is the results of those lenses that I am seeing in my images (gear wise) and if a D620 had the D850s sensor, you would never know what camera I was using. You are entitled to think that I am an idiot if you like, but I will not be stifling my opinions because I am ruffling feathers. As fabulous as the D850 is, I suspect that Canon and Sony (with reservations) will soon best it with a better photon detector. In the meantime, I will enjoy my lenses.
And I make my point again, I believe and hope that Nikon comes out with a great mirrorless solution. But they better not let the f-mount flounder.
So, you are upset because you think Nikon may be abandoning you by going to a different mount, but you are considering abandoning Nikon full frame for a different format only 5-10 years down the road. Hmmmm. Maybe Nikon somehow knows your loyalty for the F mount will eventually come to an end and leave them locked into a mount you will no longer embrace. Is it so wrong, then, if they "do it to you" before you "do it to them"?
And besides, if Nikon produced medium format, they would be one of my top choices.
I think Nikon can convert current E lenses to a new full frame mount pretty fast, and they probably already have some interesting new ones ready (like long 5.6 aperture pf lenses), and hopefully the third parties will be quick to respond. So it doesn't have to take a long time until a new mount has a good set of lenses available.
My dream scenario is that Nikon goes for medium format light, like Fujifilm and Hasselblad. For me a slightly larger sensor would be the best way to use the space of not having a mirror. In short I like the strategy of Fujifilm. But I don't expect Nikon to take this route.