Transition from F to Z (TFFTZ)

WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,047Member
I have been closely watching the development of the Z system for a year now, considering what I am going to do regarding the evolution of my system, which coupled with a D850, includes:

NIKKOR 15mm f/3.5 AIS
NIKKOR 20mm f/2.8 AIS
AF-S NIKKOR 20mm f/1.8G ED
NIKKOR 24mm f/2.8 AIS
PC-E NIKKOR 24mm f/3.5D ED
NIKKOR 28mm f/2.8 AIS
AF-S NIKKOR 28mm f/1.4E
Voigtlander 40mm f/2.0 Ultron SL II
NIKKOR 50mm f/1.2 AIS
AF-S NIKKOR 50mm f/1.4G
AF-S NIKKOR 58mm f/1.4G
AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f/2.8
AF-S NIKKOR 85mm f/1.4G
NIKKOR 100mm f/2.8 Series E
AF-S NIKKOR 105mm f/1.4E
AF DC-NIKKOR 135mm f/2D
AF Micro-Nikkor 200mm f/4D IF-ED
AF-S NIKKOR 400mm f/2.8E
AF-S Fisheye Nikkor 8-15mm 1:3.5-4.5E ED
AF-S NIKKOR 14-24mm f/2.8G ED
AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8E ED VR
AF-S NIKKOR 70-200mm f/2.8E FL ED VR

My need of shooting is as follows:
1.
Great AF. Image quality just needs to be good enough. Most sports and action shooting that I do is in this category and I shoot about 20k images per year.
2.
AF merely needs to be decent but in most cases, is not strictly necessary. Most of my “artistic”, work, I choke when I say “I” and “artist in the same breath, is in this category and is about 50k plus images per year. This is roughly broken down into:
A.
Cityscape, seascape and landscape work – 1.8 is fast enough. Small and light is appreciated.
B.
Architecture and some landscape work. 1.8 is fast enough. Perspective control at least as good as the 19mm will be appreciated.
C.
Portraiture – my current portrait set is my 28 1.4E, 58 1.4G, 105 1.4E, 200 2.0E (oops, not released yet, but I will buy it when it is released) and my 400 2.8E).

See the following for examples of my work:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/westendfoto/albums

I am going to fulfill requirement #1 with my three zooms (14-200 in 2.8), my current D850 and the soon to be launched D6. It will be supplemented with my 1.4 primes on a case by case basis. I expect that given my volume, the already excellent AF in both cameras (I am assuming that the D6 AF will equal the spectacular D850 AF but may be much better.) and the image quality of the holy trinity in my collection, this kit will serve me well for at least 10 more years.

I am going to fulfill 2A with all of the 1.8 primes and I will buy any that Nikon introduces.

I am going to fulfill 2B with all of the 1.8 primes, but if Nikon launches S line perspective control lenses, I will buy these.

How I am going to fulfill 2C depends on whether the Noct is a one off. If it is part of a system, I will buy any Noct that Nikon launches. If it is a one off, I will settle for the 1.2 primes. Given my current portrait set above, I will be in no hurry to do this.

So I predict that my next purchases will be:
1. Nikon D6
2. The newly announced 120-300 2.8E looks like it could be useful for #1.
3. When Nikon launches a 60 plus mp Z camera (Z8 say) with the same or better ergonomics as my D850 w/grip, I will buy that camera plus all three of the Z 50s – 50 1.8S, 50 1.2S and 58 0.95S. I will be very curious to dissect the relative performance of these lenses.
4.Then the rest of the 1.8 line of primes.
5. I may consider the Z7 given its small size, but this will be in addition to “Z8”, not instead of it.
6. At a slower pace, the 1.2 primes as they are launched. I will have plenty of life left in my current f-mount lenses and I may never buy a Z version of my 400 2.8 or my 200 2.0 assuming Nikon launches the F-mount version first.

How about everyone else. What is your TFFTZ?
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Comments

  • DenverShooterDenverShooter Posts: 345Member
    My next transition will be to PhaseOne medium format...

    Because mirrorless doesn't offer sufficient upside (none) to replace all of my glass..

    Denver Shooter
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,047Member

    My next transition will be to PhaseOne medium format...

    Because mirrorless doesn't offer sufficient upside (none) to replace all of my glass..

    Denver Shooter

    I find medium format very tempting and Phase One is spectacular. The quality of the S glass has caused me to delay that transition, but perhaps not stop it. And if I wait a few years, perhaps someone like Nikon or Canon will do medium format with their 35mm format ergonomics. Or at least something better than Phase One......
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,199Member
    WEF: Nice body of work, congratulations. At age 72 my transition from f to z is far more modest due to far less talent, interest, energy, disposable income and spousal patience. No more F mount lenses or bodies for me. Instead, I collected backwards as a fun project just to see how sufficient the "old" stuff was for "modern" work. I collected a D700, D800, D3s and D4 while they were still plentiful and cheap. I probably will keep them forever as a collection of great Nikon products. My favorite ergonomics are the D4. It feels much better in my hand and more solid than my D850 with battery grip. That D4 made me a champion of the Dx body style and highly desireous of the Z line version of that style. If printing at a reasonable 16x20 inch size I have concluded they are all still sufficient if used within their other limitations (such as ISO, fps, etc). In fact, I have a 12 mp 16x20 print from the old D90 DX body hanging in my dining room next to poster size prints from my D800 and no one sees the DX sensor print as lacking quality. No one even notices the difference between 12 mp DX and 36 mp FX at 16x20 size. My work will almost certainly never be printed larger than 16x20. Of course, the D800 files can be printed to poster size and beyond. I have done so. The D500 is the last DX DSLR I bought or will buy and the D850 is the last FX DSLR I bought or will buy. Both are very well rounded and can do almost everything sufficiently; just a matter of giving either speed or megapixels higher priority for the project at hand. The only thing that would tempt me to buy another DSLR would be if it offered a hybrid viewfinder. Transitioning to the Z system has begun for me. I find the Z6 is a great all around light body and the both f4 and f2.8 24-70 zooms create very reasonable and versatile packages with the Z6 body. I have all the S lenses released to date and the 85mm f1.8 on preorder. Probably will get the S 70-200 in both F4 and F2.8 when released but no others; just too limited use for me to justify the expense. That may change if an 85 mm f1.4 comes out which is super spectacular. When it finally comes out I certainly will purchase the Z body I really want: the one with the dual card slots and built in vertical grip. If it comes in low and high megapixel versions I likely will get both. If Nikon produces a DX Z body with a pancake lens which is reasonably pocket-able, I likely will purchase that.
  • DenverShooterDenverShooter Posts: 345Member
    Doesn't look like DSLR are going away anytime soon...

    September 4, 2019

    Nikon is Developing the D6 Digital SLR Camera and the AF-S NIKKOR 120-300mm F/2.8E FL ED SR VR Telephoto Lens

    MELVILLE, NY – Nikon Inc. is pleased to announce the development of the Nikon D6 professional DSLR camera and the AF-S NIKKOR 120-300mm f/2.8E FL ED SR VR telephoto zoom lens.

    Nikon released the D1 digital SLR camera in 1999, making 2019 the 20th anniversary of the single-digit D series. Thanks to the imaging know-how cultivated over Nikon's long history in camera development, Nikon's professional DSLR cameras have continued to evolve by introducing some of the industry's most advanced technologies and responding to the strict demands of professional photographers with the ultimate in performance and reliability, even in the most severe conditions. With the D6, Nikon is currently developing its most advanced DSLR to date.

    This year also marks the 60th anniversary of the Nikon F mount. The new AF-S NIKKOR 120-300mm f/2.8E FL ED SR VR F mount lens that Nikon is developing will provide professional photographers in fields such as sports photography with even greater support.

    Nikon is striving to expand possibilities for imaging expression and leading the way in imaging culture with both DSLR and mirrorless camera systems, as well as a rich lineup of NIKKOR lenses.
  • mhedgesmhedges Posts: 1,239Member

    My next transition will be to PhaseOne medium format...

    Because mirrorless doesn't offer sufficient upside (none) to replace all of my glass..

    Denver Shooter

    My next transition will be to PhaseOne medium format...

    Because mirrorless doesn't offer sufficient upside (none) to replace all of my glass..

    Denver Shooter

    I find medium format very tempting and Phase One is spectacular. The quality of the S glass has caused me to delay that transition, but perhaps not stop it. And if I wait a few years, perhaps someone like Nikon or Canon will do medium format with their 35mm format ergonomics. Or at least something better than Phase One......
    I have mixed feelings on medium format. Its really cool that it even exists, but to be honest I don't see a good reason for the smaller medium format stuff to be on the market. The quality increase over FF is very marginal, and you are giving up a ton of flexibility. Maybe the new 100 mp Fuji will change my mind.

    I personally don't see Canon or Nikon ever jumping into that space - there are already as many players as the market size will allow.
  • retreadretread Posts: 523Member
    I am will soon be 75 and am shooting two dx cameras mainly. I never seem to sell anything so have others. I have 5 lenses I use on a regular basis and others on the shelf. Three of those 5 are not Nikkor lenses. I look forward to some upgrades but no time soon. Happy with what I can do and a limited income so I will spend carefully. I do not see anything in the Z line that interests me at this time. Next camera will likely be a D850 or what replaces it if it is a DSLR. Three of the five lenses I use are already FX as I anticipate the move to FX. Next lens will likely be something long, maybe over 600mm.
  • NSXTypeRNSXTypeR Posts: 2,084Member
    My next transition will be to... my 10 year old D7000 with an option to purchase a D7500 if they really are discontinuing DX DSLRs.

    It's nice to have a big wallet.
    Nikon D7000/ Nikon D40/ Nikon FM2/ 18-135 AF-S/ 35mm 1.8 AF-S/ 105mm Macro AF-S/ 50mm 1.2 AI-S
  • manhattanboymanhattanboy Posts: 1,000Member


    My need of shooting is as follows:
    1.
    Great AF. Image quality just needs to be good enough.

    Pretty sure that statement alone is going to delay your transition plans until Nikon fixes their crappy Z AF system. My D500 blows the Z7 out of the water for AF; its not even a contest, think New England Patriots playing a high school squad. The Z7 does better with wider lenses, which not ironically is what Nikon and Canon have all focused on releasing for their mirrorless systems. The Z cameras are great at what I would call hipster shots... people posing, scenery, object shots, etc. This is sadly how I use my Z7 now, as my travel camera with an adapted FE-mount pancake lens.

    I know there are folks that say they use the Z7 with F mount teles and the FTZ adapter, but the truth is if I challenged any one of them to shoot an action sequence with their adapted F teles on a Z7 or a D850/D500/D5 of their choosing, I would be hard pressed to find a single sole who would prefer the Z cameras. I've shot events with the Z7 and F-mount tele primes and it was frustrating. The DSLRs just focus faster, track better, and are less disorienting as you move your eye from the camera and back getting shots off more quickly because there is zero start up lag.
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,199Member
    edited September 5
    "It's nice to have a big wallet." Yes, but it is much better to have big skill and time to shoot! A 12 mp D3s still is a great FX body and they are going for less than a new DX D7500 now on ebay. A 16 mp D4 can be found for less than a new D500 on ebay. So a person no longer needs a "big wallet" to be shooting a top of the line pro body.

    "The DSLRs just focus faster, track better, and are less disorienting as you move your eye from the camera and back getting shots off more quickly because there is zero start up lag." Yes, shooting fast action is a Z body weakness. However, the potential for more accurate wide open focus is better with the mirrorless body because focus is done on the sensor. No more fine focus adjustments to lenses. More processing power and faster processing will shorten the EVF lag and blackout time but I don't know if we can ever get to the zero lag time of an OVF. As of today DSLRs are superior for fast action shooting but that "gap" may not be so large in just a year or two. We have not seen a $6,500 pro Z body yet so we don't yet know what Nikon can do in mirrorless compared to a D500, for example. As higher level Z bodies come out in the next two years we will better be able to make that judgment. Remember Nikon said they were going to produce a mirrorless body with the same performance as a D4. If so, that mirrorless body would be fully adequate for shooting fast action.
    Post edited by donaldejose on
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,047Member


    My need of shooting is as follows:
    1.
    Great AF. Image quality just needs to be good enough.

    Pretty sure that statement alone is going to delay your transition plans until Nikon fixes their crappy Z AF system. My D500 blows the Z7 out of the water for AF; its not even a contest, think New England Patriots playing a high school squad. The Z7 does better with wider lenses, which not ironically is what Nikon and Canon have all focused on releasing for their mirrorless systems. The Z cameras are great at what I would call hipster shots... people posing, scenery, object shots, etc. This is sadly how I use my Z7 now, as my travel camera with an adapted FE-mount pancake lens.

    I know there are folks that say they use the Z7 with F mount teles and the FTZ adapter, but the truth is if I challenged any one of them to shoot an action sequence with their adapted F teles on a Z7 or a D850/D500/D5 of their choosing, I would be hard pressed to find a single sole who would prefer the Z cameras. I've shot events with the Z7 and F-mount tele primes and it was frustrating. The DSLRs just focus faster, track better, and are less disorienting as you move your eye from the camera and back getting shots off more quickly because there is zero start up lag.
    But if you read what I wrote further down, I am going to fulfill this need with a D6 and my current D850.
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,047Member

    "It's nice to have a big wallet." Yes, but it is much better to have big skill and time to shoot! A 12 mp D3s still is a great FX body and they are going for less than a new DX D7500 now on ebay. A 16 mp D4 can be found for less than a new D500 on ebay. So a person no longer needs a "big wallet" to be shooting a top of the line pro body.


    Agreed Donaldejose.
  • mhedgesmhedges Posts: 1,239Member


    The Z cameras are great at what I would call hipster shots... people posing, scenery, object shots, etc. This is sadly how I use my Z7 now, as my travel camera with an adapted FE-mount pancake lens.

    So the only "real" use for a camera is shooting fast action, and the rest is all artsy fartsy nonsense?
  • manhattanboymanhattanboy Posts: 1,000Member
    I only shoot sports and events. Everything else is just for fun, so yes :smiley:
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,005Member
    edited September 6
    I'm rather happy that people are switching to Z mount, I've picked up some great F-mount pro lenses for cheap as result (I have 14-200mm covered with F2.8 and 200-400mm covered with F4). No plan to move to Z for the foreseeable future, D750 and D810 still getting the job done.
    Post edited by PB_PM on
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • retreadretread Posts: 523Member
    PB_PM said:

    I'm rather happy that people are switching to Z mount, I've picked up some great F-mount pro lenses for cheap as result (I have 14-200mm covered with F2.8 and 200-400mm covered with F4). No plan to move to Z for the foreseeable future, D750 and D810 still getting the job done.

    I have 11mm to 450mm covered at F/2.8 with DX and doing fine. Will move to FX but in no hurry. D7200 and D500 doing just fine.
  • donaldejosedonaldejose Posts: 3,199Member
    So true. All bodies like the D750, D800, D810, D850, D500, D7500, D7200 and D4 are fully adequate to get almost any job done. They all made many great photos when they were the latest and greatest and can still make great photos today. Still, I want (not need) a Z9 body with some S lenses such as the 85 mm f1.8 and likely some of the upcoming f1.2 primes.
  • manhattanboymanhattanboy Posts: 1,000Member
    mhedges said:

    the rest is all artsy fartsy nonsense?

    Shot with a Nikon Z7 and featured on the NikonUSA homepage:

    Need I say more :wink:
  • PistnbrokePistnbroke Posts: 1,835Member
    My transition to Z is stopped until they can get the Z7 to focus /track as well as a D500. Then it needs to take my Samyang 14 mm thro to my N 200-500.
  • tc88tc88 Posts: 343Member
    I don't think I'm at my last camera syndrome yet, but with a D850, I'm not in a hurry. Having said that, last summer I thought the probability is 75% that my next camera would be Nikon. But now I think it's more like 50/50 between Nikon and Sony. And the longer I wait, the more likely I'm going the other way.
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,047Member
    edited September 8
    Why TC88?
    Post edited by WestEndFoto on
  • tc88tc88 Posts: 343Member
    I can certainly expand on the following, but in summary,

    (1) Nikon's engineering team is small and looks like it won't be able to catch up to Sony on the technical aspects in mirrorless.

    (2) Nikon's business team, while not lacking bean counters, lack people with common sense.

    All indications is that Nikon is resigned to be the third player, and value short term profitability over everything else.
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,047Member
    tc88 said:

    I can certainly expand on the following, but in summary,

    (1) Nikon's engineering team is small and looks like it won't be able to catch up to Sony on the technical aspects in mirrorless.

    (2) Nikon's business team, while not lacking bean counters, lack people with common sense.

    All indications is that Nikon is resigned to be the third player, and value short term profitability over everything else.

    I am not sure I agree with #1. Where are they behind right now on the technical aspects of mirrorless?

    And regarding #2 is irrelevant if you like the decisions that they are making so it can't be the "root reason". What is the "root reason"?
  • tc88tc88 Posts: 343Member
    The main technical aspect of mirrorless is AF. Obviously Nikon is behind Sony right now. Besides, Sony now has monopoly on sensors. So Nikon is unlikely to overtake Sony on that aspect either.

    On the business side, the latest example is the 1 card xqd idea. I consider that lacking common business sense.
  • Capt_SpauldingCapt_Spaulding Posts: 497Member
    My transition to Z will probably be delayed indefinitely. I have a D750 and a D7200 that are both much better cameras than I am a photographer.

    Donald was on target when he noted that skill and time to shoot are more important than the latest and greatest equipment. I'd love to be blessed with all three. Since economic reality prevents me from chasing the newest equipment, I'll focus on the first two. There is much to be done there.
  • WestEndFotoWestEndFoto Posts: 3,047Member
    TC88, AF is not as far behind as you think in my view. Sony does not have a monopoly on sensors, just a market leader position which they will lose if they abuse it. And I support the XQD decision provided they have two cards in a Z8 or Z9.

    And Sony is handicapped with their small mount. That means it will be harder to design lenses that compete with Canon and Nikon.
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