Why switch to "Z" system?

WestEndFoto

tc88 said:

@donaldejose, even if your subject only fills a DX frame, there is benefit using D850.

First, you have a wider view, so it's much easier to track and keep the subject in the frame, even if you are just targeting for a DX sized picture.

Second, if the subject ends up to be off center, if you are shooting full frame, you can still crop and get a full DX picture instead of having a wing cropped, etc.

Third, D850/D500 all have the same 153 points AF module.

Lastly, we are talking about which camera is best for wildlife and sports capability wise, not which camera is cheaper. D850 pretty much renders D500 obsolete capability wise.

Yes, I often find that cheaper is confused with better when people talk gear.

WestEndFoto

donaldejose said:

tc88: good points. Does the D850 have the same AF system as the D5? I thought only the D5 and the D500 shared that system.

The D850 has the same AF system as the D5.

tc88

@donaldejose, yes, as WEF said, D5, D850, D500 all have the Multi-CAM 20K AF module.

Ton14

PB_PM said:

DaveyJ said:

To: tc88 Because I don't know of any race photo pros that use the D850.

Go to a pro racing event, you won't find many crop cameras, be it D500s or otherwise either. You find mostly D4s, D5, 1Dxs class bodies, a good number of 5D MK IVs, maybe some D810s, but mostly the full size pro bodies.

Of course, who buys a D850, D5 to take .JPG's in DX mode, if you want that you buy a compact.

DaveyJ

Having had a lot more exposure to these motorcycle race events than most, I have yet to see more than one or maybe two D850s. Don’t have a clue what race events you are talking about. I don’t think you have a race promoter background? I see quite a variety of cameras. And a LOT of cell phones. Very few full frame cameras. And then the pro video coverage using high end movie cameras and on platforms connected to the race events. Maybe you are talking stadium racer photographers. Like Arena Cross or Suoercross East Coast or West Coast. In stadiums there is not the vast acreage of off road events The race events I refer to are off road motorcycle and quad events. AMA and GNCC.

trolley

I would say that at all of the F1 events, Rugby Union & Football (or soccer, as you know it) I have been to, pro shooters use FF cameras. And the same at the Olympics.
Never seen any with a DX, even as a backup

Ton14

Searcy said:

Single point focus on the Z6 isn't nearly as good as with the d7200 but once I got used to the idea of shooting in dynamic area focus I found that my hit to miss ratio improved to an acceptable level. Especially in low light conditions.

OK, I hardly used "dynamic area focus", but I will start to learn it now.
Single point focus is always spot on with my Z6 and better then manual by me. In the last 5 months I did not use manual focus, that's why I set the ring on the lens to ISO and changed it in the menu to 1/2 stop instead of 1/3, works great for me now.

Beside IQ the rings and buttons on mirrorless lenses can do much more then DSLR lenses.

mhedges

Ton14 said:

OK, I hardly used "dynamic area focus", but I will start to learn it now.
Single point focus is always spot on with my Z6 and better then manual by me. In the last 5 months I did not use manual focus, that's why I set the ring on the lens to ISO and changed it in the menu to 1/2 stop instead of 1/3, works great for me now.

Beside IQ the rings and buttons on mirrorless lenses can do much more then DSLR lenses.

Dynamic area AF is definitely the way to go for Z6 and fast action. Much better than single point. It's what I use.

donaldejose

I stand corrected on the D850 AF system. Thanks.

PB_PM

DaveyJ said:

Don’t have a clue what race events you are talking about.

I don't have to be a promoter to see what the pros are using. Ever been to a Formula 1 race? F2? F3? Formula E? GT endurance series of just about any kind? Indy? NASCAR? Moto GP? When I say pro racing, that's what I mean, not your towns little race track with road cars or dirt bikes.

trolley said:

I would say that at all of the F1 events, Rugby Union & Football (or soccer, as you know it) I have been to, pro shooters use FF cameras. And the same at the Olympics.
Never seen any with a DX, even as a backup

This is my experience as well, all the big sporting events I've been to; Vancouver 2010 Olympics, NHL, CFL, NFL, NBA, MLB, universally you'll see full frame cameras covering the event.

DaveyJ

I said the stadium events are different. Your little town???? Then you threw in MOSTLY Stadium events. Why cause they are easily covered from stands over looking relatively small acreage events. GNCC and AMA and even Dakar event this year had a lot of DX cameras. Also a lot of the events are covered by quadcopter, and REDS are more showcased than almost any full frame DSLR. Fine you see them in the stands, but the races are covered in the media by other gear.

donaldejose

Why the difference between venues? Is it the advantage of DX "reach" or the advantage of DX cost? Is it a matter of having to purchase your own gear compared to shooing for a company which has the big bucks able to provide their shooters with $6000 bodies and $15,000 lenses?

tc88

@donaldejose, exactly, you hit the nail right on the head. A lot of times, cost and prestige factor in way more on the decisions than technical reasons. But one thing we do know. Any decision based on so called "reach" of D500 over D850 is invalid.

PB_PM

DaveyJ said:

I said the stadium events are different. Your little town???? Then you threw in MOSTLY Stadium events. Why cause they are easily covered from stands over looking relatively small acreage events. GNCC and AMA and even Dakar event this year had a lot of DX cameras. Also a lot of the events are covered by quadcopter, and REDS are more showcased than almost any full frame DSLR. Fine you see them in the stands, but the races are covered in the media by other gear.

You are talking about video gear, I'm talking about the guys who are taking still photos. Nobody is using REDS to shoot stills.

donaldejose

tc88: You make a good point on "reach" between the D500 and the D850 since the higher mp FF sensor can easily be cropped post shot. However, the D500's 10 frames per second could give it an advantage over the D850's 7 fps (but it you use the battery grip and the big battery you can get 9fps with the D850 which destroys the D500's fps advantage).

WestEndFoto

donaldejose said:

tc88: You make a good point on "reach" between the D500 and the D850 since the higher mp FF sensor can easily be cropped post shot. However, the D500's 10 frames per second could give it an advantage over the D850's 7 fps (but it you use the battery grip and the big battery you can get 9fps with the D850 which destroys the D500's fps advantage).

Yes, there is no benefit to using a D500 over a D850 except size, weight and cost. And lots of drawbacks.

tc88

WestEndFoto said:

Yes, there is no benefit to using a D500 over a D850 except size, weight and cost. And lots of drawbacks.

@WestEndFoto, well put.

snakebunk

If you are using a long zoom lens I think a dx camera is ok but if you use a long prime lens you really need that extra sensor area.

When I sit in professional bird hides I usually have one camera with a 500/4 and one with a 300/4. If I had dx cameras the gap would be a little bit to wide.

donaldejose

Back on topic. Why switch to the Z system? The number one reason is to access better lenses than the DSLR F mount lenses. The f1.8 lenses have been great and f1.4 or f1.2 glass (which traditionally are better than Nikon's f1.8 glass) can reasonably be expected to be even greater. While the Z bodies are weak now, software improvements are being made and sent out as free updates. Better bodies are in the pipeline. The Z8 and Z9 bodies will be the ones most of us will want. The Z8 should be out this year and a top of the line "pro" mirrorless body should be out withing two years. Also, we will want a FF Z50 size body with compact lenses. Hopefully, Nikon will produce one. About four years from now almost all new Nikon purchases will be Z mount bodies. Those who are switching to the Z system now for new purchases (I limit this to new purchases, I am not advocating selling all existing DSLR bodies and lens and going to all Z bodies and lenses) are building up a line of great lenses which will be used for decades as the better Z bodies become available.

Searcy

Ton14 said:

Searcy said:

Single point focus on the Z6 isn't nearly as good as with the d7200 but once I got used to the idea of shooting in dynamic area focus I found that my hit to miss ratio improved to an acceptable level. Especially in low light conditions.

OK, I hardly used "dynamic area focus", but I will start to learn it now.
Single point focus is always spot on with my Z6 and better then manual by me. In the last 5 months I did not use manual focus, that's why I set the ring on the lens to ISO and changed it in the menu to 1/2 stop instead of 1/3, works great for me now.

Beside IQ the rings and buttons on mirrorless lenses can do much more then DSLR lenses.

Yea, being able to program the rings on the new Z lenses is handy. I never shoot in manual. I mean never. I've thought of reassigning the ring to exposure on the 35mm because of the changing light I deal with all the time.

WestEndFoto

Donaldjose, you pretty much see the world my way. I am keeping my F-mount and will buy one more body with the intention of getting one more decade out of that system. 2030 or bust!

For Z, I want a Z5 (with the compact primes, small enough to hide when working), Z7.1 (weekends w/family) and two Z8s ( for the serious stuff). My intention will be to buy every prime Nikon is likely to make up to 200mm, except the 105 macro. 105 is not long enough for a macro.

donaldejose

If one is not going to print larger than poster size available F mount glass and DSLR bodies will be fully adequate for more than another decade. However, the better S glass is just soooooo tempting. I often want, and by, more than I need just because it is available. That is why I have been buying off e-bay and shooting with some older bodies just for fun. I find that for much of what I do they are not limiting. Maybe that is a sad reflection on what I do!

snakebunk

@donaldejose: Are you saying that if I am only using long lenses that are not available for the z mount, there is no need to change right now?

donaldejose

snakebunk: Yes, if you are only using long lenses I see no need to change to a Z body now. The D5, D500, and D850 should give you all the speed, IQ and megapixels you need. The Z6 and Z7 won't add speed, IQ or megapixels. The Z6 is superior for video. Do you do videos with your long lenses? If so, a Z6 would be helpful to you. If not, keep using your DSLRs. If you shoot with constant light in a studio the mirrorless bodies "what you see is what you get" and eye AF can be very helpful. But if you are doing that type of shooting you are not using only long lenses. It seems to me that outside of Z6 video mirrorless has nothing important to offer to someone who is shooting wildlife or sports action with only long lenses not available in the z mount. Would eye AF be helpful to your work? I doubt you are shooting dogs and cats with long lenses. I doubt you need eye AF for fast action sports shot with 300mm and up lenses. Perhaps the Z8 will offer something else of importance to you. Perhaps sports action and wildlife shooters with long lenses can post a list of reasons why a Z body is better than the available DSLR bodies for that type of work. The few birders and birds in flight shooters i know with 600mm f4 lenses are using the D850.

snakebunk

@donaldejose: Thanks a lot for your thoughtful answer.