D600 Dust/Oil/Lubricant Issue discussion/Discontinuation and price reductions

spraynpray

The D800 price has stabilised at £1989 here in the UK so when the D600 was around £1600 I thought 'to heck with it, I'll get the D800 and live with the file sizes' but now the D600 can be had for £1229 after cashback, I find myself thinking along exactly the same lines as you @heartyfisher for the same reasons (except that I would then forego the DX D400 and commit to FX).

[Deleted User]

@ heartyfisher and Spraynpray For what it's worth, just my D600.

The shutter was replaced by about 3000 shots and after this replacement there were a couple of spots again in the left corner, so the problem was still there and cleaned by Nikon SC.

On june 17th, my sensor was checked and cleaned by Nikon service centre after shot 9540. As far as we could see at that moment, there where a lot of dust spots only (I change lenses often).

Made a checkshot from the air for you yesterday with the 70-200mm f/2.8 II on f/22 ISO 100 and put it on Flickr, also in the full resolution. The only thing I do, when I change lenses, are blows with the Giotto and let the wet cleaning do by professionals.

Here is the shot, most of the time when I checked my D300 I had more spots.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ton1414/9266103347/

PS this shot is number 11106.

heartyfisher

@Ton .. so you are saying that the problem has gone away in your case?

Msmoto

@heartyfisher

Until there is very clear evidence of the problem having been resolved with the D600, I would not recommend to anyone to purchase one. It is not understood why this problem seems to be continuing for as long as it has.

My guess is Nikon is somehow caught in a situation where they have a lot of defective shutter boxes and are trying to figure out how to use them and fix the problem...which of course they have not done. I am anticipating a D600s which has the issue completely resolved. Or, maybe Nikon will revive the D700 and call it a D700x with a new sensor and reliable shutter.

In any case, the only D600 I would purchase is the refurbished ones, test it for about 500 clicks, check for oil spots and if more than a half dozen are on the senior...send it back.

spraynpray

I just got back from my nearest big dealership on the Sussex/Kent border in the UK, their position was that the D600 is fixed and they haven't had any returns for three months or more. They said Nikon has found the problem and fixed it and the ones that did throw oil on the sensors stopped after 1000 or so shots. Then they really went for it and said that people only complain on forums, never praise. Smells like BS to me, if anybody reading this has any information regarding returns to that dealer within that period, please post it here.

The guy agreed that I could buy one and providing I put only a hundred or so shots on it, they would take it back if returned within ten days. I started at 1000 shots but he said they couldn't clean the sensor and then re-sell it with more than about a hundred or so clicks on it! I said "Sayyy Whaaaat?" and they said "Oh, yeah, that is all Nikon do with refurbs so why waste time sending it back when we can do it here".

I would like to buy one if I could be certain it was not a 'special needs' camera ('special needs' term courtesy of @mmfish).

@Ton: Glad things are working out for you, sounds like yours at least is fixed.

mmfish

After 1750 shots on July 4th, a large oil spot appeared on the upper left. I had purchased a refurbished D600 with serial number starting 302 thinking a refurbished camera almost a year after introduction would /should have the current fix. It obviously didn't. I called Nikon and asked for return authorization, it took all day July 5th for Nikon to agree to refund vs repair. I then purchased a D800 form the outlet store, spending more for peace of mind, ha, ha, I received the D800 Wednesday and the rubberized grip was pulled out from the camera body. Nikon agreed to fix the camera as I was hoping a second going over will right any wrongs. Not a good Nikon experience this month, I hope the D800 will prove satisfactory..

heartyfisher

@spraynpray : I wouldn't trust that guy you talked to. Sounds like he is full of $#*^ !

spraynpray

I still feel that the TOTAL lack of communication from Nikon means there is no 'fix', and that they have a 'tinker and hope' attitude to the problem.

Come on Nikon, act like Toyota!

@heartyfisher: Yup.

Msmoto

@spraynpray

ALmost funny....like the guy would not let you return a defective camera? )

aLQaDHi

@Msmoto You might think that is funny but this is what i am actually facing with 'Grand stores' the authorised nikon dealer in UAE. my d600 sent to the service centre twice and in both times the spots came back in a week. in the first the sensor was cleaned and the in the second time the shutter and its motor were replaced.

I spoke with senior in the service centre this week and his reply was 'this is normal, the camera is not dust sealed. We also replaced the shutter for you although your camera serial number is not mentioned in the affected cameras of nikon data base'

i mounted the lens in the service centre (50 mm 1.4g) and don't other lens by the way.

i took the matter with the consumer right and will make them dance

i am aiming for d800 but the issues (oil/dust/focus) of it also make me concern

Msmoto

@aLQaDHi

By funny, I am meaning totally absurd. Very poor business practice.

I see how you are over the barrel, especially when some idiot who is behind the counter says these things to a customer...the absurdity is what I find "almost funny". In no way is this humorous. And I sympathize with you to have to put up with someone who is so insulting to a customer's knowledge.

Hope this is clear now...

aLQaDHi

@Msmoto .... i got you the first time just wanted to blow some steam and tell my story
did not mean to get you involve

thanks,,,

mmfish

I'm willing to accept the D600 as a camera not quite fully baked

heartyfisher

I'm willing to accept the D600 as a camera not quite fully baked

[-O< ) ) )

smadman

Okay folks, here is my promised report for D600 #3, and the news is...interesting. I have posted a number of test shots to show where I currently stand, and now I'm hoping to get input from all of you. I have stripped the EXIF info, but all were shot at f/22 at approx 50mm, unfocused at a blue sky. Each shot is accompanied by an enhanced version (i.e., Photoshop auto-levels) to show the spots more clearly.

To review, this is a camera from B & H in NYC, with serial #307xxxx. I put on one lens immediately out of the box, and haven't removed it since. The first shot showed the sensor to be completely clean.

The following shows the sensor after 242 shots:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cybaqh0ll748ofs/DSC0242.JPG
enhanced: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ngke85sujw4fs8q/DSC0242E.jpg

Wow, lotta spots -- quite disappointing. But what I'm *not* seeing is the "spatter" pattern of very light spotting (oil?) that seemed to emanate from the upper left hand corner -- something I saw in later frames from my first two units.

Immediately after taking that photo, I ran the D600's sensor cleaning routine as many times as it would allow me to (5? times in quick succession), removed the lens for the first time, and gave the sensor a thorough blowing with a Giotto rocket blower. I then snapped another test photo:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9zvjrmfroxnzd5l/DSC0243 - after sensor cleaning.JPG
enhanced: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pby6l9wr29jbrqx/DSC0243E - after sensor cleaning.jpg

As you can see, the internal sensor cleaning routine coupled with a thorough blowing seems to have dislodged a great many of the spots. There are still a few left, but I only count three that are visible in the non-enhanced test version. It's not at all clear to me that a new camera should have this much spotting, but still, this is beginning to seem like a more reasonable situation to me.

After that, I went ahead and cleaned the lens thoroughly on both front and back surfaces to address any concern that the spots are actually on the lens rather than the sensor. Here is what I got:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vttbw127aal9i4y/DSC0244 - after lens cleaning.JPG
enhanced: https://www.dropbox.com/s/l2h61j2g0dm7uxf/DSC0244E - after lens cleaning.jpg


As far as I can see, there is no difference at all in the spot pattern. Then just for giggles, I did the test again with a different lens altogether; I haven't bothered posting the shot, since the spot pattern was identical. So for my money, this is pretty definitively NOT a problem caused by dust on the lens.


One more session with the rocket blower managed to dislodge another spot or two:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d7rrxvc8p66zo6m/DSC0247 - after one more blowing.JPG
enhanced: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7xbmvmirsfemaok/DSC0247E - after one more blowing.jpg

And finally, this is what I'm currently left with, after just under 250 frames:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yx6wgz1ww8lm6dh/DSC0248 Spots.jpg

[be sure to download this file if you're going to look at it; it looks terrible in the dropbox browser viewer]

I've circled all the spots I could find -- I count 18, but really only 3 are visible under any kind of normal circumstance (I tend to shoot mostly at very small apertures, btw).

So...is this reasonable, or still completely pathological? My feeling is that the primary problem we've all been talking about here seems to have been addressed in this new batch of D600s; my sense is that what I'm working with here, while perhaps excessive for a new camera, falls more along the lines of normality. Moreover, I feel like the remaining spots are more evenly distributed across the sensor, as opposed to being strongly clustered in the upper left-hand quadrant. I hope and encourage all of you following this discussion to take a look and weigh in on this data. Any input is appreciated!

Msmoto

The best results will be after a thorough cleaning of the sensor, what it looks like at 1,000-2,000 clicks. It is easy to click that much in a couple of shoots over a weekend.

The key is the rate the spots keep accumulating after a few thousand clicks.... this should diminish.

smadman

Unfortunately, I don't have that kind of time (although I suppose I could just start burning through clicks just for the sake of science). I need to decide very very soon whether or not to return this baby for a refund.

spraynpray

Well for sure it isn't 'fixed', but as said by Msmoto it is the next few hundred shots that will tell you what is what. If I were you I would clatter off another 250 then make a decision. It would only take a few hours, then you will know.

I sure wish we would have a few owners post who say they have hundreds or thousands of clicks on with no problem, because so far, @Ton is the only one who has a decent example of the D600.

[Deleted User]

The price difference in januari this year with the D800 was 700 euro, that is a lot of money for something you don't need (85mm f/1.8 and 50mm f/1.8 and money left, yeahh). At the moment I'am very happy with my D600, it is a great improvement for my D300, only not when I bought it, but when it was repaired !!!.

One thing is sure, I definite should not buy it now, due to the complete silence from Nikon, as the whole world knows the problem. In my opinion, this is a statement too, but I don't have decent words for it..

I should buy it at the moment, when I get a written guaranty from the seller, that I give it back with a full refund, when the camera shows spots pile up in the left corner. No sending to a service centre, no cleaning, just return, because the camera is defect, cleaning is not a solution, it is stupid, very simple.

smadman

@Ton, did you take a look at my test shots? How do they compare to what you're seeing on your camera now?

[Deleted User]

You can judge it for yourself in my test shot, these are different.

Your first shot shows the problem, spots in the left corner.

I should remove the two spots in the left corner. You don't know if it is oil. After it is clean and those spots come back (you don't need a lot of shots), give the camera back.

[Deleted User]

@ Spraynpray

They said Nikon has found the problem and fixed it and the ones that did throw oil on the sensors stopped after 1000 or so shots. -

What a rubbish. He got camera's back, otherwise he could not know this. I read here, the problem is NOT solved, not the shop to buy buddy.

spraynpray

"What a rubbish. He got camera's back, otherwise he could not know this. I read here, the problem is NOT solved, not the shop to buy buddy."

Absolutely. Shame though, because the price is attractive right now. I think the name D600 will always be tainted due to Nikon's bad attitude over the problem. Maybe it is time for a D700x as Msmoto said.

aLQaDHi

After involving consumer rights 'government entity in Dubai' i am getting my replacement camera this week

i am not giving them any choice but getting my money if this one is defect.

aLQaDHi

Good Bye d600 it was nice meeting you.
You felt right between my hands but i am not good cleaner

i managed to upgrade to d800 and save about 770$

i will go now and start shooting...