D600 Dust/Oil/Lubricant Issue discussion/Discontinuation and price reductions

jimo

I had gotten a D600 as soon as they were available and sadly it does suffer from spots. I have cleaned the sensor at least six or eight time and they always return. At present I have a little over 9,000 shots taken and they seem to be slowing down. A month ago I was wanting to get a second body and did a lot of head banging but decided to get another D600. The reason was that I know the camera backwards and forwards and did not want to lean a different camera. Once I received the new D600 I tested it out and I and I noticed that the shutter sounded different from my first D600. So far I have shot 730 pictures and have not notice or found any spots. I am hoping that this is a good sign that this camera does not suffer the same ailment or maybe Nikon has fixed the problem.

mmfish

Not so fast, I received a refurbished D600 July 3rd, took 1750 shots July 4th and a big oil spot appeared. Nearly a year after introduction, just received from the manufacturer, no way problem solved.

PB_PM

Prediction, D600s released along side of the D400 late this summer/early fall to "fix" the problem.

catfish252

Not so fast, I received a refurbished D600 July 3rd, took 1750 shots July 4th and a big oil spot appeared. Nearly a year after introduction, just received from the manufacturer, no way problem solved.

It may depend on the time Nikon got that particular camera back for refurbishing. Does it have a low serial number? Maybe it was refurbished before they made their weak acknowledgement of the problem and the shutter assembly or whatever is causing the problem didn't get changed out, I hope it did for your sake. I hope everyone's D600 gets fixed soon. I'd love to get one but as long as this problem is prevalent I can't pull the trigger. maybe PB_PM is right and there will be a D600s this fall, but I would find that to be a real slap in the face for the customers with the original camera. If the D400 is announced this fall I won't be getting one of the first ones, I'll be playing the wait and see game with Nikon from now on.

spraynpray

Actually, 'refurbished' is one of those lovely vague weasel-words that can mean anything from a wipe-over to a rebuild. The shop I was in the other day said there is no difference between them cleaning the sensor and Nikon doing it and that is all they would do to a D600 if I bought one and returned it. So much for 'refurbed'.

The trouble is, we are all gullible enough that even after huge experience with lying salesmen, we still believe that we may get a good one.

Cleaning the sensor isn't the end of the world, but every 100 shots like some do (at least for a while) - and then what? You mean nothing changes with all that lubricant spraying off the place it is needed? They have made too many cameras to let simple over-lubrication go on for more than a batch surely? Will the shutter that seems to be shedding debris go on to do the 'warranted' number of actuations? Careful there, there is no warranted number of actuations - they say 'tested to' they don't say 'guaranteed for 150,000' so after 70,000 you need a new shutter - then what?

Doh! This just gets worse and worse!

catfish252

I have to believe that Nikon at least puts the refurbished camera on the test bench and checks outs the metering and focusing operations, and shutter speed, Now local camera shops may not because that piece of equipment is pretty expensive, but then again I wouldn't buy a locally refurbished camera.

mmfish

Say what you want, Nikon told me that refurbished or repaired, the camera is brought back to factory specs . How else would they be in business for so long?

MikeGunter

Say what you want, Nikon told me that refurbished or repaired, the camera is brought back to factory specs . How else would they be in business for so long?

Hi all,

The real and actual problem, of course, is that 'factor specs' for the D600 is the specific problem. The camera can't be trusted new, used or refurbished. It stinks in all flavors at any cost.

My best,

Mike

spraynpray

@catfish252: @mmfish:

I'm not making this stuff up! The guy that told me that is dealing with Nikon Reps (unlike us internet jockeys) so...

He said the camera must be in the same condition as when bought for it to be returned and have very few clicks on it as they only clean the sensor and then re-offer it for sale as new. I asked why Nikon refurbs come with white boxes, he said because once the box is opened, it looks used.

mmfish

I have confidence buying refurbished Nikon equipment from Nikon directly. I recently purchased a 105 micro and 50 1.4 G refurbished and these lenses appear new. I'm waiting for my D800 to return from service at Nikon, no worries

spraynpray

We aren't talking about lenses or D800's though are we (I feel the same as you generally) - we're talking the farce that is the D600. This situation is different from what has gone before. If what we read here is a true indication of the whole market, Nikon have an unprecedented number of cameras will low clicks coming back and for which they haven't got a fix so what are they going to do? Clean them, perhaps reset the clicks and sell them again hoping that they will not spit as much or that they find an owner that doesn't notice or care.

catfish252

This is a short article about Canon's refurbished camera process. It was written by the former manager of that department. Although this was in the 1980s and film cameras, I don't expect the process is drastically different from todays. I used to work for IBM in Marketing and our refurbished equipment went through a similar process as what the ex-Canon employee states. Read it here:

http://digital-photography-school.com/refurbished-camera-equipment-as-good-as-new-if-not-better

I bought my D60 several years ago refurbished by Nikon it had 1400 clicks (hardly new) on it but all of the other accessories were still in plastic. These cameras come from trade shows, in-store demonstration equipment and maybe a few other similar situations. Some of them do have parts replaced prior to being sold as refurbished.

spraynpray

@catfish252: I don't want to rain on your parade, but how many things do you know that haven't changed (usually for the worse) since the 1980's? I once bought a 50mm f1.4 Olympus lens secondhand and when I complaind to Olympus UK there were bubbles in the front group, they had me come into their service centre, stripped it, cleaned it and replaced the front group FOC while I watched. Nowadays, the story is somewhat different - it starts with the exclamation "second hand?!" followed by a l-o-o-ong wait followed by the 'ker-ching' of their cash register....

Seriously, the D600's problem is unprecedented IMHO.

catfish252

I agree the that the D600's problem is unprecedented, but I do believe that every refurbished camera from Nikon mind you not some third party camera store is put on the test bench prior to going out the door, the alignments are mostly made storing values in registers on a chip, they are not made by adjusting potentiometers Those cameras that don't pass the testing certainly are not sent on to customers. If they don't pass minimums they may not fix them but I certainly believe they are removed from inventory and destroyed.

bolt

I'd like to give an update of my Saga with my third Nikon D600 - With more than 1000 shots the sensor of my second D600 was so dirty to lose count of the number of dust spots concentrated to the left corner of the image - so I decided to return it for an exchange - well after 10 days today I received the camera and with my dismay I found out that B&H sent me an old D600 in a new box - someone at B&H has mistakenly (?) put an old D600 S/N 303xxxx into a box S/N 307XXXX - the camera looks new but has 160 shots and about 50 dust spots on the left side of the image - certainly a used camera.

I thought B&H was better than this ......I cannot imagine how this could happen, but it seems to me very bad and worth of mention.

spraynpray

Have you contacted them yet Bolt? What did they say? Could be a simple mistake given that the sensor is already dirty.

heartyfisher

h

Photophun

Nikon Canada & Richmond are tightening up their rules on sensor cleanings. I brought my 3 month old D7100 in to have a oil spot that I could not remove after 4 attempts. They charged me, claimed after the fact it was dust, and are quoting "no known oil issues" as well as "standard company procedure to charge for cleaning. I have even taken this to the Head Quarters out east and got factory, I really don't care, reply's. Sorry Nikon but for my first customer experience you get an absolute fail. So if you do take your D600 in make sure they verify in front of you that it is not dust or you may be charged for cleaning a brand new camera.

bolt

This morning I have contacted B&H - they are sending another camera - no comments from their side, only apologies for what happened. I'm a long lasting B&H customer and probably I will continue to buy from them, but I start to wonder: the previous D600 had the box opened with all the accessories not packaged properly, the D600 had a little scratch on the screen protector , but the shot counter was at 0 and the sensor was clean ( I don't know if the counter can be reset), so I decided to keep it - but this accident was worse, it was certainly a used camera sold in a new box. What bothers me is that the camera looked brain new, no signs of previous usage except for the number of shots and the dusts on the sensor, it would have passed the inspection of a novice.

PB_PM

The shutter count can be reset, by people in the know. Sounds to me like you have been duped twice now. B&H is likely just cycling bad cameras around and reselling them as new. Really bad business IMO. Either that or the guys in the shipping depot are doing it, without anyones knowledge to save themselves the trouble of shipping returned units back to Nikon.

smadman

@PB_PM
I sincerely doubt it. I've been doing business with B & H for years, and I've never known them to be anything other than honest and reputable (same holds true for Adorama). They do an enormous volume of business, and they certainly make mistakes from time to time, but in my experience, they've always gone the extra mile to make it right. It's also no doubt true that some of their employees are better than others, but I've never seen any indication from them that suggests any pattern of unethical behavior or deliberate malfeasance.

That being said, I think if they get a returned camera in pristine condition under their "trial" period of 200 shutter clicks, they probably just repackage it and sell it again if they have no indication that the unit is defective. That's something to keep an eye out for, but I don't think it rises to the level of a shady business practice (debatable, but probably a topic for another thread if folks want to pursue it).

PB_PM

Units returned in used condition cannot be sold as new, so not only is it unethical, it's illegal.

catfish252

The shutter count can be reset, by people in the know. Sounds to me like you have been duped twice now. B&H is likely just cycling bad cameras around and reselling them as new. Really bad business IMO. Either that or the guys in the shipping depot are doing it, without anyones knowledge to save themselves the trouble of shipping returned units back to Nikon.

It could have been an honest mistake where a customer had a refurbed camera and a new one out for inspection and they were put away in the wrong boxes. I don't think B&H would want to get caught doing something like that way too much to lose.

spraynpray

So where are we at? I don't get it really - the D800 has more Mp but soils itself much less so it isn't related to that. If it isn't somehow tied up to Mp, and we see from posts here that some people get way too much contamination without changing lenses, then it could be maybe sensor manufacturer 'a' doesn't get the problem, but sensor manufacturer 'b' does. Mirror box shape? New supplier, finish or design? Models made in country 'a' but not country 'b'? How hard can it be? I am sure that if I handled all the models all day every day I would have worked this out long ago.

With those resources, week to verify the problem exists, three more to understand it properly, a month to find a fix and another to test that properly. Those are reasonable timescales.

PB_PM

@spraynpray I think it simply comes down to a design flaw in the shutter mechanism of the D600, and Nikon simply isn't dealing with it. I cannot see what else it could be.

The D800 = Sendai Japan plant
The D600 = Thailand plant (only one that I know of)
Sensors? Both made in Sony's plant in Japan (as far as I know)

I doubt the production location has anything to do with the issue. Why? All Nikon bodies below the D800 are made in Thailand (D3200, D5200, D7100) and none of them have the same issue, at least not on the same scale.