D600 Dust/Oil/Lubricant Issue discussion/Discontinuation and price reductions

[Deleted User]

For what it is worth, the DxO rating at the moment:

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Camera-Sensor-Ratings/List-view

donaldejose

Yup, I would agree with that. Third best sensor on the market now, just one point lower than the D800. I would think I could make prints six feet tall with my D600 and I don't think I will ever print larger than poster size so I don't really see a need (for me) for the additional 12mp offered by the D800 (but if I really did print six feet tall I suppose I would see a significant difference). I do find that I prefer the "pro" control layout and robust build though. Hopefully, the D610 will save this great sensor from dying in the "dust bowl" of Nikon history.

heartyfisher

Note also the D600 High ISO performance is the best of this current generation sensors.. only losing out to D3S.



.. .. mumble grumble dxo still no fuji sensor tests .. mumble...

Shootor

I have clicked 300 more shots after receiving back the repaired camera. I started to see more oil spots (gray, 2-dimensional, round shape dots). Most of them are non-removable by blower bulb. Though they are mostly invisible at f16 (fit to window), but f22 has become uglier. Also it seems like using continuous shots gets more of those spots.

By the way, I didn't realize Canon is so slow on the DxO list until clicking on the list Ton provided.

donaldejose

Shooter: sounds unacceptable to me. Seems your "shutter replacement" is spewing the same type of oil spots or it wasn't replaced at all. I would send it back again. It is one thing to clean it after every 3,000 shots and another thing to have to clean it every 300 shots.

donaldejose

The main blog presents the best data we have to date and it suggests about 70% of D600s have the excessive dust issue (about one third of D600 owners have no dust issue) and 40% of those cameras with a dust issue are not returned for cleaning so those owners must be managing the issue themselves with their own cleanings like I have been doing. My experience must be part of the 40%. When you deduct the 40% from the 70% you are left with about 30% of the D600 bodies either too dirty to self-clean or the owners don't want to do the cleaning themselves. If you just split this 30% in half you would have about 15% of the D600s with a very serious dust issue. Conversely 85% of the D600s either do not have a dust issue at all or one which the owner is able to manage with self-cleaning (15% just don't want to do it). Most sadly of all Nikon does not seem to be able to fix the situation since 64% report more dust reappearing after the "fixed" camera is returned by Nikon.

My take from the data is that the issue is real, but does not affect 100% of the cameras. Also, sending it back to Nikon for a "fix" more likely than not will not result in a permanent fix so if you own a D600 you most likely should just buy the sensor cleaning equipment, learn to use it and plan to clean the sensor yourself every few thousand clicks until all the dust is out of the body. Sending it back to Nikon for cleanings which you can do yourself is just wasting days or weeks of time without your camera when you could have cleaned it yourself in less than half an hour.

We don't know yet whether the camera will become "normal" at some point in time such as after 10,000 shutter actuations. Nor do we know if Nikon's shutter replacements fix the problem or if the D610 will be manufactured in a way or with new parts such that the dust issue will be gone. It looks like the D600 will be a great buy used for someone who is willing to clean the sensor themselves because this survey will make the D600 reputation worse not better. Used prices should fall from where they are now.

JJPhotos

Hello all, sorry for not coming back on this for many months. I have been a bit busy on other projects, changing job etc.

I have done a couple of big wedding shoots in the last six months having received the D600 back from Nikon UK in late March. In the process of these and various other things, including everyday shoots, experimenting etc I have put about another +/-10k frames on the camera.

I noticed that, by early May, there were a few spots on the sensor and, once again, some were shifted by use of the Giottos Rocketair whilst others stuck. I was not sufficiently irked to get out the wet-cleaning kit until recently, however, when once more the accumulation towards the top-left of the frame started to intrude upon shots even at 'normal' apertures of around f5.6-f8. I have just wet-cleaned the sensor and will obviously be keeping an eye on how any further contamination presents.

Overall I would say the problem has been more-or-less fixed in the case of this camera but it is still something of a negative characteristic that it definitely accumulates some kind of crud (the oil/dust debate doesn't seem to have been resolved I see) in the top left of the frame.

donaldejose

Thanks for the update. Hopefully lots of folks will find the issue more or less resolves over time.

This might be one of the few bodies you don't want to buy used unless it has over 20 or 30 thousand shutter actuations on it!

Sato

Currently awaiting the possible/probable D610 announcement next week, If that's true I might just request that as a replacement or ask for my money back. After this whole tread I don't trust Nikon's fixes do be a permanent solution with the number of shots I take on average each year. (1.000/2.500)

NRandall

Hi
I am new to this forum but not to Nikon. Its funny that my issues with the D600 got me thinking about Nikon forums again.
My experience goes like this. I was ready to jump back into the FX world after several years with DX models. I originally went from film - F100 - to digital via the D80 and then the D90. I still was not happy with the resolution generally so I sold my D90 and DX lenses to take the D600 plunge.
The unit arrived with spots straight out of the box - this was four weeks ago. After sending photo samples to the dealer he agreed to take it back. After another two weeks of waiting three or four units arrived at the dealer from Singapore [I am in Australia] and following my request to check before sending he did and every one of them had lubricant on the sensors!
As has been commented here he noted that they were only visible from F/11 and suggested that Nikon is sending out units it knows to be substandard reckoning that most folks don't shoot above these apertures and would not notice. These are the dealers words, not mine.
I have given up on the idea of a D600 altogether and negotiated for a D7100 plus an extra lens instead. The D610 from when it is announced will be several months before availability so I decided to wait this out.
I do enjoy photography and this experience is not typical of my Nikon experiences to date, going back to the early 1980s.
I look forward to reading and contributing some positives here too!

spraynpray

That is a very sorry tale to hear NRandall, but welcome to NR now you're here. Your 4/4 experience is about as bad as we've seen on this topic.

Perhaps you would like to tell us your findings on the D7100 over on that thread.

donaldejose

Also, I suggest you test out your D7100 the way people test the D600 and see if it has any dust or oil spots on the sensor or develops any during the first 3,000 exposures.

Photobug

Donaldejose said:
Also, I suggest you test out your D7100 the way people test the D600 and see if it has any dust or oil spots on the sensor or develops any during the first 3,000 exposures.

Great suggestion. When I got my D7100 two weeks ago I checked for dust or oil on the sensor after 50 pictures...no problems. I have now taken 1,244 pictures and just checked it today. The sensor is clean.

NRandall

I am currently using a D7000 from the dealer while I wait for the D7100. So far there are no issues with this one and I don't know how I will go with the D7100, but I can hope to expect that the images are clean on first use out of the box. I'll post a test 'family' image in the next couple of days as the images on the D7000 are quite impressive compared to my D90. I'll continue my comments later on the D71000 thread and leave this alone at least until I get the D610.

donaldejose

Checked mine carefully this morning at 8,740 shots which is about 620 shutter actuations since the last cleaning. I found no black dust spots and only three very small gray "oil" spots along the edge of the frame which were too small and too insignificant to justify a cleaning. Probably a good idea to test the D600 sensor every 1,000 shots until all the dust and oil is out of the camera.

spraynpray

As I see no announcement that the D600 is withdrawn from sale, I wonder where this leaves the customers who buy D600's after the D610 is available and who get the dreaded spots withing during warranty? Are Nikon going to properly fix them or when only partially fixed if the customer is not happy will they exchange for a D610?

Are dealers going tosell them and say "Hey, this is a D610 but cheaper!" or are they going to be truthful? My own experience is of them denying the problem and carrying on selling regardless. I wonder if they just think 'let Nikon sort the mess out under warranty' with no regard for the customers after sales experience or if they will return the D600s they have in exchange for D610's? it will be interesting to see how it is handled.

It seems that some people who I had hoped were not getting an unusual amount of spots (i.e. the same amount of cleans being necessary as with my D7000) are getting a higher number, but they have settled for that as they clean the sensors themselves. This is still not 'normal' and so is something I personally would not settle for so if I had a D600 - even @donaldejose 's D600, I would not be happy. Combined with the impact on the D600's secondhand value, this would make me - again, personally - knock very loudly on Nikons door and ask for an exchange.

bbarb

@spraynpray, i am also very curious to see how things will turn out, and i really hope that nikon will support all those customers in a way that in the end the will all be happy.

But, do you allow me to express myself freely?? (and please don’t take me wrong on that)
Some of the users were asking for troubles and now they have troubles. I really hope the best for them but now they must face them as some of us have already done it when it was a lot easier, within a few days of having owned the d600 and realized the problem.

When I was yelling out loud, in dpreview '' this is not a normal procedure to clean the sensor every 500-1000 shoots'' go to nikon and complain , let’s do a mass action and so on, some users attacked me, and started telling me that we must clean our sensors and this is how things are, this is what professionals do, the d600 is 100% perfect with no spot issues, they also accused me that I am a cannon fun boy pretending i have nikon and some other bull@%its like this. Some guys also posted me images, to show me how excellent the d600 was and how superior over my canon (they were so sure that i have canons, that they also asked me to upload better images from my canon to compare........), but what frustrated me even more was an admin, that pm me telling me he deleted my messages and also threatened to ban me of the site, because I accused a user that he stole his camera (but what I told him was ‘’why compromise and accept cleaning your sensor yourself so often, did you stole it?? No you paid it why compromise?’’, but the admin obviously didn’t want a revolution in his beautiful site….) and just to complete the story I said to the admin to read the post again and go ahead and ban me I don’t care, because I will never post to dpreview again and I never did.

Anyway my point is, that our will and our passion to always support our choices is so strong that in some cases we get ''blind'' to see the obvious truth. So in the end we do not end up taking the correct decisions. So having used a camera for 1 year already and now go to nikon and tell them I have spots, so far I was cleaning it myself and I loved doing it every week because I was feeling like a pro but now I want the d610, I think is not as easy to have it exchanged as if someone asked it after a few days of using it.
For instance, in my case I bought the d600 and after I realized the spots about 1 month I returned it and after a few failed cleaning attempts by nikon, I ended up using a d800 nikon gave me to work until they find a solution. A few minutes ago I called nikon and I told them the D610 is out, I want an exchange and they just told me, OK. I really hope the best for all users, but I have to admit that in dpreview some guys made me so angry that I I found myself wishing for a D600 replacement and those specific guys continue cleaning their d600. Anyway now being cold blooded I also wish an exchange for all of us even those specific guys.
But at least let’s learn something out of it as consumers.

One week ago my macbook pro i7 main board failed. Apple provides 12 months warranty my mac is 22 months old. In Europe we have 2 years warranty by law. Local apple told me I have to pay about 500-600 euros for the fix, I told them about the law, they agreed to try and make a claim into apple, I now have the 500-600 euros board replaced free of charge. (ok ok I know its out of topic) but my point is that we must know our rights, its not a nikon vs canon or mac vs win debate, we are consumers and these things are our tools that make us creative in order to do our job or our hobby. I never sleep with my dslr or my mac and I have never made love with my nikon or I ever did with my canon or my mac. These are just our tools, we must understand it and behave appropriate and always demand the best out of them.

My apologies for long post but this was for me as a reply to those guys in dpreview. It was like a psychologically treatment for me because i was wronged there. lolololo.

fred

I couldn't agree more barb. I am happy that the D610 was real and that you were able to exchange your D600 but I got to be honest that as a D600 Im pissed with Nikon for dropping the resale value of my camera. I hope they do compensate the D600 owners with something, maybe an exchange, a discount for an exchange or anything. Even their press release of D610 states " concentrate on clarity" what the heck is that! Nikon just made clear that with the D610 you get clear pictures without spots unlike the D600. Damn you Nikon!

spraynpray

@bbarb: Vous ete tres formidable!

Long post (thanks) short reply: I agree.

Please let us know how you get on with your D610 and how it compares to your D800 'loner'.

Msmoto

The obvious action from Nikon of introducing a "replacement" camera, the D610, is strong evidence they are aware of the D600 flawed performance, i.e., the spots. I am wondering what Nikon's position would be if someone said to them....replace my D600 with a new D610.....mmm.....

donaldejose

I agree Nikon should simply replace any D600 with a D610 if the D600 owner complains to them. Those reconditioned D600s will be a fantastic buy because the price will fall even lower than it already is. I am now at about 800 exposures since least cleaning and no cleaning yet needed. We will see how long that lasts!

bbarb

@Fred, i agree with you, and yes this is a problem. Correct me if i am wrong but if i remember corectly you have sent your camera already for sensor cleaning, correct? If yes, contact them and tell them,i have enough of this thing i have again issues with dust so, i need a replacemant. On the other hand, if your images are indeed fine and you were on the lucky ones, think of it that you have an excelent camera to continue enjoying. So forget the whole think and just enjoy it. If my d600 was spot free, i wouldnt care that much, i would use it and i would try to shoot the best images of the world. Yes, i mean it the d600 is not limiting anyone by any way. You have the perfect tool just do the job. ( all of us not just you)

@ spraynpray, as soon as i get the d610, i will let you know.

@to all: by the way, this nikon replacement is a "victory" we all together managed to achieve threw websites, and forums like this. So a big thanks to all of us but even more to those "open minded" forums like this one, that allows us to express ourselves as we want. By threatening users and photographers that they will be banned if continue their way, the only one that would have won was nikons shareholders and not us the ones that do the job.
So a big thanks for me to NR for hosting me and my somehow agressive approach.

Photobug

I found this on the B&H web site under the discussion on the new D610 when someone asked if the dust/oil issue was resolved on the D600. Here was the B&H response:

Submitted by Yossi O from B&H Photo on Tuesday, October 8, 2013 - 11:28am.

There have not been any issues with the sensor for quite some time now. We are aware that many users online were complaining about sensor issues at one time, but we feel the issue was inflated to a larger topic than the problem actually was. We have not received any abnormal amounts of returns on the camera for this or any cause. If you do happen to receive a model with any type of defect, you are covered both by Nikon's warranty as well as B&H's 30 day return policy.

This is about all you could expect from B&H's perspective since they are still selling D600's. But it also is an indicator of how B&H is handling these complaints.

Photobug

I see that B&H dropped the price on the D600 to $1,896.95. If you are in a market for the entry level FX model and the D600 was $1,896.95 and the D610 was $1,999.95, why would you buy the D600? What is Nikon thinking or should I say what is B&H thinking? That price on the D600 has got to drop a lot more to create separation. I can see lots of people buying the D600 for a second body if that happens even with dust and oil issues because they know it will be addressed.

Still don't get why Nikon did not discontinue the D600 unless they really feel the oil/dust issue is minor and they will handle issues via warranty.

donaldejose

I would think there will have to be a $300 plus price difference before people will buy a new D600: unless they are totally uninformed about the dust issue. So I would expect the price of a new D600 body to fall to around $1,699 soon. Once Nikon gets to the point where they no longer make any money on the D600 it will be discontinued. I would expect that to happen soon with all D600 production switched to D610 production if that has not already happened.