D600 Dust/Oil/Lubricant Issue discussion/Discontinuation and price reductions

spraynpray

'reflections staff'? Something got lost in the translation there @bbarb...

Ade

There is no update. That is the identical statement (word-for-word) as the one Nikon released back in February:

http://nikonrumors.com/2013/02/22/nikon-issues-official-statement-on-the-d6000-dustoil-issue.aspx/

The statement was unsatisfactory then, as it is now.

donaldejose

Yes, the Nikon statement does seem to belie the best data we have such as the experience of Lens Rentals. However, I still have not seen proof of a specific defective part being identified. I have just seen personal experiences of bodies which spew an unacceptable amount ot spots which could be a "dirty" part or a "dirty" assembly process. If you have seen proof of a specific defective part please identify the part or design for us and show us that Nikon has identified it and replaced it in someone's D600. Anyone, have proof of Nikon doing anything other than a cleaning? Perhaps different parts in the D610 will identify a defective part or design.

Just noted this on LensRentals website as an addendum to their original report.

"Addendum July, 2013: I tire of being misquoted by fanboys on various forums, so please, if you want to quote me, copy paste instead of putting words in my mouth.
1) We found, over time, the dust issues decreased. Somewhere around 5,000 to 10,000 shots the D600s stopped having megadust.
2) When D600s do have dusty sensors, as all cameras do, it still seems to congregate in the upper left side of the image, but it’s more normal dust and fewer huge chunks.
3) We have NOT. I repeat, we have NOT ever said newer bodies don’t have the problem. We have no idea. Nikon demand is down hugely this year and we simply haven’t had to buy any more D600s or D800s (or anything else Nikon, really). I would assume Nikon has figured out a fix by now, but that’s just an assumption with no data to back it up.
Roger Cicala"

roombarobot

However, I still have not seen proof of a specific defective part being identified.

It seems that Nikon believes the defective part is the shutter mechanism, as they are often replacing that part when people send in spotty D600 cameras.

donaldejose

roombarobot: Nice, if true? Do you have proof of that? What is your source for that opinion? I have seen people report some sort of code on the repair paperwork but I have not seen people report that Nikon sent out an order to all Nikon service centers to replace the shutter with a new version whenever people complain of too much dust or that they could tell the shutter had been replaced when their camera was returned. Nor have I seen Thom Hogan or any other blogger keeping track of this issue state that Nikon is routinely replacing a defective shutter with a new version. What I do see is evidence of repeated cleanings, just like Lens Rentals is doing to their D600s. Perhaps I have missed something.

[Deleted User]

@donaldejose When I brought in my D600 (in The Netherlands) they told me that they were waiting for repair parts, which could take 2 weeks or so. Fortunately I got a message from the service center after 3 days that my D600 was ready. They cleaned it and had replaced the shutter, I wrote it in this topic on the 7th of April.

By the way, Lens Rentals showed photo's from the shutter and they thought that this was the problem.

bbarb

My local Nikon, told me that the repair parts are ready but not in production line yet. They told that to me, after contacting HQ, when i demanded a specific date for my repair. I dont know if its true or not, but thats what they said.
@donaldejose, they also told me that the shutter mechanism in my D600 doesnt need to be exchanged because its the new version. (But they usualy exchange the shutter.) They also reported my serial number as defective at nikon HQ.. So yes they do exchange parts. Not only cleanings.

spraynpray

I do recall from earlier in this thread at least a couple of shutters being changed without fixing the problem so I'm not quite sure where that leaves us 8-}

donaldejose

Right: I did know of Lens Rentals suspicion of some extra gap in the shutter and I have heard reports of some shutters being changed but I have not seen any evidence from Nikon or a Nikon Service Center or a reliable expert blogger that the shutter has been identified as the problem and that replacing it definitely solves the problem. Notice that bbarb's D600 apparently was manufactured with the "new shutter" and still had a terrible problem. Bbarb is reporting some other unspecified "repair parts" not yet in production so we don't know what they are. IT still remains an unsolved mystery to me.

Ton: now that your D600 has been cleaned and the "new shutter" installed are your dust problems solved?

Anyone else with a known shutter replacement who can report as to whether or not that "fixed" the issue?

I must be suspicious of the "old" shutter as the only problem with the "new" shutter as the final fix if bbarb's D600 has had the "new" shutter from assembly and his is told other unspecified repair parts are in the pipeline. Still too confusing a picture to me. Nikon should be roundly criticized for such lack of clarity if they do know the problem and just maybe they don't.

[Deleted User]

Ton: now that your D600 has been cleaned and the "new shutter" installed are your dust problems solved? -

Yes the oil spots are solved Donald, but I wrote everything from my D600 very detailed in this forum. I also put a shot from the sky with f/22 on Flickr (photo number 11106), after a Giotto blow. But you only see the history of one D600.

donaldejose

Ton yours is "only the history of one D600" Sure, by mine also is only the history of one D600 and bbarb's is only the history of one D600 and KR's is only the history of one D600. Four of the same bodies but one has no dust, one was fixed with a new shutter, another was fixed with three cleanings and one remains unfixed waiting for unspecified "new parts." Four quite different experiences with the same body. We don't know how many bodies in total are like each of the four examples above. Is it 80% have no dust, 10% need new shutters, 10% need only a few cleanings and 10% need parts which have not yet been manufactured? Or is is 10% have no dust, 40% need new shutters, 40% just need a few cleanings and 10% need yet to be manufactured parts. We simply don't know. Nor do we know if the problem lessened later in the production run. The best hard data we do have suggests the vast majority can solve the problem with a few cleanings if it appears. I still say it still remains an unsolved mystery to me.

spraynpray

I'm getting dizzy Donald...... @-)

bbarb

I'm getting dizzy Donald...... @-)

Lololololololo

maybe the nuclear explosion in japan afected d600s with radiation.

@ donald please dont take me wrong, i like your posts and the passion you have.

Tomorow i will drop a call to nikon to see if there are any news with my d600 or d610. I will keep you updated.
Although i like the d800.....

PB_PM

maybe the nuclear explosion in japan afected d600s with radiation.

I doubt it, considering the D600 is made in Thailand. :P

donaldejose

It is a passion for discovering the truth; which is very illusive on this D600 dust issue. But after the D610 is out I think we will finally know the truth as to whether a defectively designed part is the problem.

jshirley

Just got my D600 back from Melville last week. SN 302xxxx. My 'Reason for Service' was "dust and oil on sensor/ dirty sensor". The problem was not that bad, really. About the same as my D7000. I wanted to send it in before my warranty expires this month.

When I got the Estimate / Acknowledgement letter in the mail, Nikon had removed the "oil" part from my Reason for Service. It just said Reason for Service was "SENSOR DUST DIRTY SENSOR.

Here's the write up in my final Invoice Repair note when I got the camera back:

Service Repair Rank B2

RPL SHUTTER MECHANISM
CKD COMMUNICATION
CLN LOW PASS FILTER
GENERAL CHECK & CLEAN
GENERAL CHECK & CLEAN
GENERAL CHECK & CLEAN
GENERAL CHECK & CLEAN
GENERAL CHECK & CLEAN
GENERAL CHECK & CLEAN

I've not had a chance to shoot much lately. So, I don't know if the dust problem is going to be any better. I was getting some (hard to remove) spots that required wet cleanings - before I sent it in. Hopefully, my camera is in better shape now. Looks like RPL SHUTTER MECHANISM is supposed to fix the dust problems. Only took about 2 weeks for the turnaround.

BTW - I 'm still very happy with my D600. Though, I'm not very happy hearing the rumors about the D610 coming out later this year.

js

spraynpray

Hi @jshirley: Welcome to NR.

How many clicks had your camera done before you sent it in? Any idea of the number of dust spots and the rate they arrived at? We have members who have said 30 or so spots arrived within a hundred clicks - what is your experience?

You mentioned you cleaned the sensor multiple times before you sent it in for service - how many? Do you change lenses often?

Sorry about the barrage of questions but it is good to know similar things about each case.

BigDog

RE: D600 'Repairs'. Sent my early-build D600 to Melville for service in July. Shutter count = 1,800. Was on a 'waiting for parts' status for a few weeks but was returned mid-August with a new shutter assembly, complete cleaning, new rubber grip and firmware upgrade. I immediately clicked off 1K shots and checked the sensor. Only a few spots were present, nothing like before and none appeared to be 'oil' spots as seen previously. Most were removed with a blower. Last weekend I ventured out on a Saturday morning to a street festival w/D600 and 85mm f1.8 and grabbed about 200 captures. No spots. I'm cautiously optimistic that the shutter replacement corrected the problem. Shutter count = 3,200.

Msmoto

One problem is the data is anecdotal. Thus, no real statistical significance can be given to the issue.

However, when one encounters a large group of individuals who are all complaining about the same issue it certainly suggests the obvious. It may be that the pro bodies have the same grunge, like a D4, but that pros clean the sensor and go on, while less experienced folks may not do this type of maintenance. My D4 needed cleaning at about 10,000 and 20,000 clicks and in the real world I barely use my camera.

I do believe Nikon has given us their answer to the problems folks have with the D600 and it is called D610.

spraynpray

That is good news big dog. I hope the trend of people coming on to say their D600 is cured continues.

I agree that the interim new model is a slap to the D600 owners, but their options are limited - all things considered.

Maybe when (if) the economies improve then Nikon will not need to include bodies in the offers but it wouldn't hurt them to offer multiple purchase discounts i.e. $500 off the trinity set. :P

bbarb

@Bigdog: You shoot the sky at f16-f22 with the 85mm f1.8 or you you shoot at the street festival during the event at f1.8-7.1 and you have no spots?
Can you please clarify that?
If you shoot a subject i.e people even with f16 the spots are almost impossible to see them.

donaldejose

Agreed, anecdotal experience reports are not, and cannot be, evidence which has statistical significance. Yet, they do suffice to raise suspicions and suggest areas for further study which is why anecdotal "case reports" are published in some medical periodicals. We now have a few reports of shutter mechanism replacements. When the D610 surfaces we will see if it contains a shutter mechanism which is any different than the one in the D600. If the shutter mechanism is the cause of the dust problem it could have been defectively designed or defectively manufactured or some of them could have just been installed without sufficient prior cleaning or with excessive lube. Perhaps, the D610 shutter mechanism will be a totally new one or perhaps it will just have higher quality control before and during installation. All the D600 user reports are helpful, including those who have had no problems, those who have fixed the problem with a few cleanings, those who have sent theirs in, those who can specify what part, if any, Nikon replaced and those who can inform us as to whether or not the replacement solved the problem. Of course, this collection of user experiences would not be needed if Nikon would be more transparent about the issue. Shame on Nikon.

BigDog

@Bigdog: You shoot the sky at f16-f22 with the 85mm f1.8 or you you shoot at the street festival during the event at f1.8-7.1 and you have no spots?
Can you please clarify that?
If you shoot a subject i.e people even with f16 the spots are almost impossible to see them.

Test was conducted @f16 shooting at white wall.

Photobug

MSMoto said: I do believe Nikon has given us their answer to the problems folks have with the D600 and it is called D610

Agree with you. Also not surprised that the general specs did not change for the D610. Don't expect anything to come out on what is the real difference until the formal announcement.

Shootor

I have been following this thread for a while and decided to share my experience. Knowing there was this oil dust issue, I still went ahead and bought a D600 in August because of its awesome review about its image quality. I was hoping to get lucky and receive a dust free copy. I was also prepared to ignore oil dusts and wet clean the sensor if I got a bad copy. When I received the camera, I couldn't resist and started to take sky/wall shots. Boy, it was ugly. Although I was mentally prepared for the worst, I still felt grief. After receiving the camera, my daily routine became taking sky/wall shots then sensor cleaning using blower bulb. The problem was that blower couldn't remove most of the dust. After 500 shots, I got roughly 40 dots visible at f22; 3 dots visible at f8. I was fed up with it after one week. So I contacted the store where I bought the camera. They agreed to give me full refund. I also contacted Nikon and they agreed to repair my camera. After 3 days of debating, I chose to get it repaired because I love the camera. I sent the camera to Nikon repair center and received it back after 7 days. According to the repair log, it had a B2 repair work which including shutter mechanism replacement.
The verdict - is it dust free after repair? No. Dust still shows up but at a slower rate. I guess they are residues in the camera chamber. I was able to blow away most of the dusts appeared. Hopefully new dusts will stop showing soon. After 100 shots, 5 dots visible at f22. Luckily nothing visible at f8.
So, am I completely happy? I guess not 100% but I accept what it is now.
So, here is my plan: I will stop sky/wall shots after this weekend. I will send my camera for professional clean once it reaches 3000 shutter count. Hopefully the sensor will be clean and clear after that and remain dust free.