D600 Dust/Oil/Lubricant Issue discussion/Discontinuation and price reductions

Msmoto

@Photobug

Mmmm..... I would guess that any retail store in Madison is going to downplay the dust/oil issue on the D600 as there is no point in their taking a position which is different from Nikon. There are lots of folks who have purchased a D600 and never made a print over 4" x 6". They would most likely not see any problem.

I hold on my position, a refurbished D600 is the way to go at around $1,000, possibly $1,200.

adamz

I can only second msmoto opinion. for $1000 I wouldn't hesitate a moment.

[Deleted User]

If you can bring it to a very nearby service center and the price is $ 1200 to $ 1300, you have a bargain. I don't know if it is the best camera. The auto focus in darker surroundings is bad, you need the help light too quick, but a FF this caliber for $ 1200......

I print A3+ ,some times 60 x 40 cm and put them in a passe-partout. I 'am now on the - normal DSLR dust - issue after 17000 + shots, In 4 years this body has cost me 400.- a year, every hobby has a price.

donaldejose

Ton: are you saying that after 17,000 shutter actuations your "dust issue" is no worse than any other Nikon? I seem to be at that point at about 9,000+ exposures. Perhaps whatever cased the extra dust has worked itself out after 10,000 exposures. If so, this means a used D600 with 20,000 shutter actuations is a better buy than one with 2,000 shutter actuations because you will no longer be having the excess dust issue. I hope that is true for all D600 bodies.

[Deleted User]

The shutter from my D600 is replaced and the sensor is cleaned 2 times by Nikon and my D600 problem is solved. You can read my whole D600 story in this thread Donald. So I have now a DSLR that collects dust, as all DLSR's do, because I change lenses. No oil anymore. At the moment I past 17.000 shutter movements.

donaldejose

I thought GreatEnerepre's clean room posting was very interesting. Shocking to see so much new dust appear after Nikon cleaned the sensor. The efforts of Korean Nikon users to pursue group action against Nikon was a new contribution to this issue. I wish them success. As I have said before, if the D610 shutter fixes the issue (as I am sure it does) then Nikon should be forced to retrofit all D600s with that new shutter. I was sorry to see GreatEnerepre's posting closed after he went through all the effort to do it. Perhaps he can follow the discussion in this thread and update us on the results of Korean Nikon users efforts.

Msmoto

I was in a reputable camera store in a city about twenty miles from me and was told they had not had customer complaints from the D600 owners. This may suggest that the issues show up when we really stop down, or that a lot of the D600's did not have the issue, or that some camera owners do not shoot 2-3,000 images in a week.

My D4 has garbage in some areas, yet I never see it as I rarely shoot stopped down to f/11 or f/16. And when i do, I correct in post.

Certainly a retailer is not going to admit negatives about a product anymore than the folks selling cars, refrigerators, RV's, processed foods, or houses, etc.

spraynpray

Come to think of it, I can't remember a store that has come out and said that the camera is flawed. The most damning thing I've seen has been removal from sale explained as discontinued pretty early by B&H. Generally, they have all towed the line I suppose /:)

donaldejose

I think there certainly is a problem but it does not exist in 100% of the D600s; perhaps in a third of them? Also, many people don't notice it because they don't shoot stopped down. I would think reputable camera stores would admit to customer complaints with the D600 now that the D610 is out and they can say Nikon "fixed" the issue with a "new" camera that costs $100 less than the D600 did when introduced. If there was no problem Nikon would not have released a D610 so quickly with the only change being a new shutter mechanism.

proudgeek

I talked to a guy on the sales floor of B&H last February when I was there in the context of my deciding between a D800 and a D600. He told me that they were having return issues with the D600, but we did not talk specifics.

kyoshinikon

I was in a reputable camera store in a city about twenty miles from me and was told they had not had customer complaints from the D600 owners. This may suggest that the issues show up when we really stop down, or that a lot of the D600's did not have the issue, or that some camera owners do not shoot 2-3,000 images in a week.

It is funny I will have nice photos at 2.8 then one day I decide to stop down and the amount of dust is absurd. Esp on my D200. that thing is a dust magnent

Photobug

Donaldejose said:
I think there certainly is a problem but it does not exist in 100% of the D600s; perhaps in a third of them? Also, many people don't notice it because they don't shoot stopped down. I would think reputable camera stores would admit to customer complaints with the D600 now that the D610 is out and they can say Nikon "fixed" the issue with a "new" camera that costs $100 less than the D600 did when introduced. If there was no problem Nikon would not have released a D610 so quickly with the only change being a new shutter mechanism.

Totally agree. As I have posted before the local store manager says no problems at his store and their two other stores. However, just yesterday in talking with their #1 salesman, he confirmed that the D610 is to correct the dust/oil problem but would not say how many returns they have had or dissatisfied customers.
Guess they just won't admit to the issue.

4CatLady

Guys, I bought my D600 in May, 2013. I just love this camera! Anyway, I bought it without finding out about the oil in sensor issues. Since then, I have been reading and reading while shooting and shooting. I'm back from a vacation in Rome and ran the program to see how many shots my camera has, it says 5, 205 shots. Took her to her regular maintenance. Only normal dust spots after the said use. And yet, all this talking about this camera and now its fall in price keeps me very anxious. My question is: If my camera has not develop the oil spot problems, should I keep it. In other words, is there a limit in the number of shots before the problem arises? Would you change it for a D610?

donaldejose

4CatLady: Two important points. 1. Not every D600 has experienced the dust issue. Many people have reported no problem at all with their D600. 2. When a problem was reported it was bad in the beginning and got better over time as the camera was cleaned again and again. In other words, the excessive dust appeared at first and diminished over time. The patter has not been no dust at first and then dust increases over time. No one has reported such a pattern. Conclusion: you are safe. If you have not had the issue during the first 5,000 exposures there is no reason to expect it will appear later. You can set aside your anxiety and enjoy your camera. Just fill out your warranty card and send it in.

spraynpray

...But I have to ask how you use your D600 @4CatLady - do you have it on auto or are you using it on A, S or manually? If on auto it will not show you the spotting as it doesn't use the extreme aperture settings that reveal them. If you do use it on aperture priority and go down to f11 - f16 without seeing spots, that's fine - it is the good one they made.

roombarobot

@4CatLady, to add to Donald and Spraynpray, there were some D600 owners that didn't see spots until after the first couple thousand photos. Then they saw the behavior that Donald notes. But if you are over 5,000 clicks, you should have a good idea of how your D600 is performing.

But, as Spraynpray notes, you have to do the right testing to see the full extent of the spots. While I started doing the tests because spots showed up at f/5.6, I learned how to test better to more easily access the situation.

Here was my technique... put on a mid/long lens, 50mm or greater, set your aperture to f/22 and change your ISO until you get about a second or so exposure. Point your camera at a white wall and manually focus on infinity. Move the camera in a circular motion, then fire off a shot or two. Check to make sure the shots are a medium grey, not white. If they are white, drop the exposure comp or shutter speed.

This technique is straightforward and really helps you isolate the sensor spots from wall imperfections, etc. Shooting at f/22 is important to really see what is going on on your sensor. If it isn't clean, use your rocket blower to try to blow off any loose dust and try again.

Good luck, I hope it is clean!

donaldejose

Lensrentals comment on shutters in D600 and D610:

"I’ll also note that when I evaluated the D600s I thought perhaps the shutter design, with its wider slot, was the problem. I was apparently wrong about that, since the D610 has what appears to be exactly the same shutter design. Since we saw the dust problem disappearing after 5,000 shots or so, it may be simply that there was a lot of dust inside the D600s that worked its way out early on. Perhaps the ‘cure’ was simply keeping dust out in the first place. Or maybe there’s something inside the camera (I haven’t had a chance to open one up yet) to prevent dust getting out to the sensor."

spraynpray

"Perhaps", "Appears to be", "May be", "Perhaps" and "Or maybe"

Hmmmmmm.

smadman

Come to think of it, I can't remember a store that has come out and said that the camera is flawed. The most damning thing I've seen has been removal from sale explained as discontinued pretty early by B&H. Generally, they have all towed the line I suppose /:)

@spraynpray: B & H officially acknowledges the problem for D600 customers who complain about the issue. They told me it was a "known issue", and any customer who reports the issue can return the camera as "defective". This is what I wound up doing...several times.

4CatLady

Thanks to Mr. Spraynspray, donaldejose, and roombarobot for kindly answering my question. First, I only shoot raw and in M mode. Second, I sent my camera for maintenance after my month long stay in Rome. The technician, who is a reputable character here (he takes care of most professional photographers' cameras in the city) told me that he had not found any abnormality in my D600 and no oil spots in the sensor either. I saw some spots in my pictures that indicated a dirty sensor but they disappeared after I did the Clean Sensor camera operation. These spots in my D600 were no different from the ones I find in my Nex 7 after a three day outing of solid shooting. Frankly, my main concern have been the oil spots all along since I take the dust spots as an expected consequence of shooting outdoors. I wrote to Tom Hogan too. No kidding. And he answered me. That was a pleasant surprise! Anyway, he too believes that after 5000 shots, I could be safe. I will keep you posted on how my camera continues to perform. I'm still crossing fingers; I'm not rich, I cannot just turn around and either send my camera to Japan or go to the store and get me a D610. Not me.

spraynpray

@4CatLady: That is all good news. Long may your D600 serve you well.

@smadman: I like B&H for being truthful and I wish the fleas of a thousand camels infest the armpits of the rest!

Msmoto

@4CatLady

"First, I only shoot raw and in M mode."

And I thought I was the only one. Nice to have you on NRF.

bbarb

Hi to all,
Its been a while but i have some news from nikon regarding my story. To sum up to those that dont remember my story i have had my d600 3 times for sensor cleaning into nikon, and last time they tried to clean it again, they denied to give me the camera back because they couldn't solve the problem. They gave me a d800 to work until they do something with my d600. After about 3 months they contacted me and they told me that the camera was sent to holland. They told me that nikon hq ordered all d600s with dust issue to go into holland where they will be treated as needed. They had told me unofficially that they will give me the d610, but they also told me we have to wait for your d600 to return from holland.
So to be honest i was wishing my d600 to return with the problem not solved in order to eventually get the d610.

Friday the camera came back, and the problem is still there, the sensor has again dust.
The good news is that this time they did the tests by themselves so i didnt even bother to go there and take the camera and test it myself. So they told me again that they cant give me this camera because after 1-2k of shoots i will be there again complaining. So in this week they told me i will have their final answer on what we will do. I hope that in the end i will get a d610.

spraynpray

Well, I suppose that is good news bbarb - sort of. I would have hoped by now that out of sheer embarrassment Nikon would just send out D610's and scrap the D600's. What on earth was gained by sending it back to Holland and then out to your dealer again? I doubt they could have handled this worse if they tried.

donaldejose

I hope you get a D610 also. Meanwhile, enjoy shooting the D800! I just shot with my D600 for the last two days, no dust that I can see in the images. Thought I saw one dust spot but it turned out to be a spot on my monitor. After a few more thousand shots I will do a detailed test once again.