D600 Dust/Oil/Lubricant Issue discussion/Discontinuation and price reductions

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Comments

  • Fred_BFred_B Posts: 24Member
    If you're worried about dust spots ask yourself a few questions before buying.

    1) What type of photography am I interested in?

    If you're interest is Macro photography or an area that's specialized and NEEDS a small aperture then by all means make sure you know the camera you're getting isn't going to show dust spots on all your shots.

    I can't think of a single time I've shot a blue sky at a small aperture except to check for dust spots. If it's too bright use a ND filter not a small aperture.

    2) Am I selling my work or printing/displaying pictures at a size and resolution where dust spots will be distracting?

    If I need to 100% crop to see the spots but plan on printing photos at 8x10 or displaying on a monitor the spots may or may not show. If it doesn't show who cares.

    3) Am I comfortable cleaning my own sensor and to what degree?

    Oil spots need to be wet cleaned. This can be an issue when the camera is new (my D800 had a few oil spots). Wet cleaning with a sensor swab can be frustrating and take several tries to get right. It's worth having professionally done in my opinion. Especially under warranty.

    Dust is able to be removed dry. First use a good blower (in a clean area) and see how it goes. For the stubborn spots use a sensor brush (I replace mine every year and keep it in a plastic bag). Just broom off the dust and you're done. No wet streaks or residue that an improper wet clean leaves behind. It's actually quite easy.

    People think the filter/sensor that they're cleaning is like a delicate flower but it's not. It's about as hard as soft glass so be careful but it's not like anything that touches it will scratch the surface. I would bet that it's tougher than the coatings on your front lenses.

  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,442Moderator
    There is a guy in my club that boasted wet cleaning sensors was a piece of cake and that he had cleaned hundreds - his own once a week and those of other members when asked. He was so sure of himself that I said I would like to watch him do the next one to see if I could pick up any tricks, but a guy came up to him and said that since he had cleaned his sensor for him it had a scratch right across it! He hasn't done any since and the other guys camera is off at the service centre for a repair quote..... :(
    Always learning.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 197
    edited January 2013
    @spraynpray This surprises me - if you read what Thom Hogan says about sensor cleaning he seems to suggest there's a layer of something particularly hard in front of the sensor, so scratching it should be quite difficult...

    And no, I'm not going to test out anyones theories on any of my sensors :D
    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
  • roombarobotroombarobot Posts: 201Member
    edited January 2013
    @Fred_B, I do not agree with your question #1. My D600 developed spots that show up at f/8 and f/11. It is now on its third trip to Nikon Service.

    The camera should be able to function at all of its apertures without wet cleaning every 100-200 shots. I don't understand why some folks say it is fine if it doesn't work at f/22 or f/16. What about f/11 or f/8?
    Post edited by roombarobot on
  • @roombarobot I think you'll find this is simply down to the fact that, due to diffraction, 'dust' spots tend to be more obvious at smaller apertures. As a general rule, over and above f/11 diffraction will be present which will show things like this a little more easily.
  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,396Moderator
    The suggestion to write to Nikon, Mr. Goyku, and send it at least once a week until a response is given may not be such a bad idea. If Nikon received letters from 75% of D600 owners they might realize a problem exists which is not going away.
    Msmoto, mod
  • TheDraftsmanTheDraftsman Posts: 2Member
    I'm a noob to the forum here so hello to all!

    Went through the same issue with my D7000. Lots of us have these oil spots at first. However, talking with a D3 owner he set me straight and laid into me about being a wimp with the spots. He said, you want to own a high end camera? Learn how to clean your sensor like the rest of us. I knuckled up two years ago and bought the Pentax O-ICK sensor cleaning stick. It's the only thing that will remove the spots. Leica uses the same type of stick at the repair centers and I'm sure Nikon uses them also.

    BTW. The more I used my camera the less the oil spots appeared.

    Pentax sensor stick.
  • KFW1982KFW1982 Posts: 17Member
    edited January 2013
    If I may, as the owner of a D600:

    I don't know if it's dust or oil or what that is appearing on the sensor of the D600. I do know that it's patterned material (e.g. it appears in the same general area of the sensor even after cleaning). From reading this forum and others, I read that it appears in the same area on other D600s. This patters seems to suggest that it is some internal material, rather than external dust getting to the sensor.

    As pippi suggested, this is not my first Nikon DSLR. I have had dust on other sensors before (D5100, D700). Both of them have been used in the desert, the mountains and by someone who often is all thumbs when it comes to changing lenses.

    So I've had dust and dirt on the sensor before and, as I noted above, usually a couple of blasts with an air rocket with the camera pointed down is usually all it takes to clean it. Once I had to very gently sweep the sensor with a sensor brush. Problem solved.

    Whatever it is that's appearing on the D600 is not this level of dust, and it's not the same type of materials. It doesn't come off as easily and there's a lot more of it. And I don't feel I'm being over sensitive in asking Nikon for some kind of explanation or repair.

    That said: I think darkslide is right about learning to clean the sensor, and about the Thom Hogan guide. At least that's what I studied before I even attempted to clean a sensor. And there is a filter in front of the CMOS sensor, as this article shows.

    If someone scratched something, it would be that filter. Of course, that probably doesn't make it any cheaper to repair. :)

    Post edited by KFW1982 on
  • shawninoshawnino Posts: 453Member
    TheDraftsman: first and foremost, welcome aboard the forum. I don't work here, but we're a friendly bunch. I think new faces are great.

    I'd now like to come across as a bald-faced liar in terms of my own friendliness by stating point-blank I disagree with your opinion vehemently! While I don't want to demean or stereotype D600 owners in any way, and I'm sure they're capable souls, expecting the "typical" D600 owner to clean his own sensor is, IMO, a bridge too far.

    This camera is FX, but it's still entry-level FX, and needs to be user-friendly. Expecting folk to clear their own sensors sounds user-surly to me. I'm not doubting your solution at all, but I think it's the wrong solution for the D600's audience.

    Open question to the forum as I do not know the answer: suppose you clean your own sensor, somehow screw it up, and pay for Nikon to put in a new one. Does that void the warranty on just the sensor, or on the whole camera? E.G. I mess up my sensor, Nikon puts in a new one which I have to pay for because I wrecked mine. Now, inside the original warranty period, my "OK" button dies. Am I charged to fix the "OK" button?

    Thanks.
  • Fred_BFred_B Posts: 24Member
    I'm not saying that some people don't have legitimate problems with the D600. But I will say that some are going a bit overboard in looking for spots.

    If you have Nikon repair a scratched filter I would expect that it would not void the warranty. I don't see this as any different from say paying Nikon to fix an autofocus selector because you broke it off.

  • MikeGunterMikeGunter Posts: 543Member
    Hi all,

    I am hoping to join the ranks of D600 ownership in the future, assuming the kinks are worked out, and have the user's manual, which actually contradicts user cleaning of the sensor on page 305 (English version).

    There is likely some abundance of caution on Nikon's part - not wanting someone with gritty sandpaper to clean the sensor, but if one follows their guidelines:

    "The camera is a precision device and requires regular servicing. Nikon recommends that the
    camera be inspected by the original retailer or a Nikon-authorized service representative
    once every one to two years, and that it be serviced once every three to five years (note that
    fees apply to these services)."

    Emphases added. I expect that in service, cleaning of the sensor will occur.

    Point is, I wouldn't want any camera to be 'iffy' at any aperture even if I have the software and the ability to touch out the spots - that's not the point. The spots don't belong there.

    My best,

    Mike
  • Tradewind35Tradewind35 Posts: 77Member
    Crikey Mike that is an eye opener thank you - I had no idea they are that precise a device. My FM3a /FM2 have never seen a Nikon representative in 25 years. That is the beauty of using imprecise devices!

    Robin
  • timekeepertimekeeper Posts: 8Member


    I just called Nikon supoport about what can be done about the D600. He claims they have a fix for it and it should solve the problem. He did not know what the fix is. Is there a way to find out? I wonder if it is just a cleaning? He claimed that he has not heard of anyone having to send it back after this "fix".
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,442Moderator
    edited January 2013
    The problem with threads that get this long is that people never read it all before posting.

    Nikon told me above that if I scratched my filter All costs associated with the repairs to the sensor would be chargeable - that does not mean and they did not say warranty on any other feature is voided.

    Don't bother saying the filter is separate to the sensor - that is like saying you only wore out the tread on your tyres not the whole thing - pointless.
    Post edited by spraynpray on
    Always learning.
  • shawninoshawnino Posts: 453Member
    Thanks s-n-p. Interesting to know where the line is, then: I'm in the process of converting a camera to IR. Nikon Canada informed me over the phone that the filter replacement voids the warranty on my ENTIRE camera, period.

    "We have no idea what else those people might damage when they change your filter. The complete warranty is void."
  • roombarobotroombarobot Posts: 201Member
    edited January 2013

    I just called Nikon supoport about what can be done about the D600. He claims they have a fix for it and it should solve the problem. He did not know what the fix is. Is there a way to find out? I wonder if it is just a cleaning? He claimed that he has not heard of anyone having to send it back after this "fix".
    I do not believe that at all, timekeeper. There have been several posts on dpreview from people quoting Nikon saying the same thing. I think this might be a rep that does not know or is just trying to tell you what you want to hear.

    Mine is in for its third service now. It came back from its second service dirtier than when I sent it in! Unacceptable.


    Post edited by roombarobot on
  • pippigurlpippigurl Posts: 241Member
    Well since I received my last D600, that makes three, I have religiously done a check of the sensor after each outing. This body now has over 500 actuations and I am happy to say NOT ONE spot of any type. Nothing. After reading roombarobot's post perhaps this is encouraging.
  • junz0802junz0802 Posts: 1Member
    @pippigurl , so you eventually get a problem free camera? Can you tell me which store you bought from and the serial number without last 2-3 digits?
  • rschnaiblerschnaible Posts: 308Member
    edited January 2013
    Well since I received my last D600, that makes three, I have religiously done a check of the sensor after each outing. This body now has over 500 actuations and I am happy to say NOT ONE spot of any type. Nothing. After reading roombarobot's post perhaps this is encouraging.
    Did your letter help or did they respond without a prod from the top?

    Post edited by rschnaible on
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,442Moderator
    Well since I received my last D600, that makes three, I have religiously done a check of the sensor after each outing. This body now has over 500 actuations and I am happy to say NOT ONE spot of any type. Nothing. After reading roombarobot's post perhaps this is encouraging.
    That is brilliant news Pippi - long may you enjoy a spot free sensor! Did you get it from your original supplier or drect from Nikon USA?
    Always learning.
  • roombarobotroombarobot Posts: 201Member

    I assume @pippigurl was exchanging for new D600 bodies from her retailer, as all Nikon seems to do is say to send it in for service. And their service has been terrible.
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,442Moderator
    You are probably right roombarobot. I wonder if it was a truly new one that she got or one that has had some new tweak done to it.

    Maybe with the modern flow of information it isn't realistic to expect Nikon to be more open - they would be buried with cameras for update even if they didn't need it - but I wish they were better at communicating with us.
    Always learning.
  • pippigurlpippigurl Posts: 241Member
    +1 roombarobot...no help whatsoever from service. Yes Spray this was through the original retailer. If it was reconditioned it is working far better than the other two. Fine with me!
  • roombarobotroombarobot Posts: 201Member

    @spraynpray, I don't think there are tweaks that Nikon is doing. I think there are a certain unknown percentage of D600s that have the problem. Some folks have ones that create spots, others don't. Hopefully @pipigurl finally got one that doesn't have the affliction. Any attempts I have seen to isolate serial numbers do not show a pattern. Some have claimed that after 305xxx or 306xxx it doesn't happen, but then someone post that they have a problem with a D600 in that range.

    That, plus the fact that Nikon has not yet been able to fix mine, leads me to believe that there is no fix yet. Right now it is the luck of the draw. Perhaps due to how much lubricant did/didn't get put on whatever part is flinging it onto the sensor.

This discussion has been closed.