D600 Dust/Oil/Lubricant Issue discussion/Discontinuation and price reductions

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  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,442Moderator
    @roombarobot - is it oil? For sure? I am not saying it matters in terms of nuisance for you owners, but I would be less upset by an out of control process like lubrication causing it than if it is dust from something possibly wearing out or changing its performance while generating the dust. That would be bad design or lack of R&D.

    Aren't most cleaning fluids water based? If they are, how do they get oil off? Just wondering about whether it is oil or dust....
    Always learning.
  • timekeepertimekeeper Posts: 8Member
    Aren't most cleaning fluids water based? If they are, how do they get oil off? Just wondering about whether it is oil or dust....
    Mine does not blow off with a rocket blower.

  • roombarobotroombarobot Posts: 201Member

    My best guess is that it is lubricant. I have rarely, if ever, been able to blow anything off. Others have talked about using a sensor brush and their spots smear. Also, the D7000 (and some D800) had lubricant spots. So, that's my guess. That does point to a larger problem with quality assurance at Nikon.

    Cleaning fluids, at least eclipse, are methanol based.

  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,442Moderator
    "Cleaning fluids, at least eclipse, are methanol based."

    Yikes, that is scary. I wonder if Nikon 'approve' Eclipse?
    Always learning.
  • stl_bagloverstl_baglover Posts: 7Member
    I have been following this thread and want to share my experience. I Got a Nikon D600 for Christmas, arrived on December 27th Series 305XXX tested it and had about 3 big spots and about 1 dozen small ones (right out of the box) took pictures for about 1 week and the spots kept getting worse so I sent it back to Adorama. I got my replacement on January 19th and this one has even more spots,series # 501XXX we are over 30 spots right out of box, used a rocket blower but spots are still there. I called Nikon and they said to clean the sensor using in camera sensor cleaning setting, which I did about 30 times!! guess what, spots are still there and are getting worse. I took a picture of the sky and one spot looks like a bird, took pics of white paper, the spot that looked like a bird was still there. I don't know if it's lubricant or what because the rocket blower is not removing them. BTW this is not my first SLR I have owned a Canon Rebel for 4 years! out of curiosity I did the same shot with my old Rebel and it has 1 spots.. compared to over 30 on the Nikon D600!

    I emailed Nikon and they requested pictures, after reviewing the pictures Nikon said spots are very visible and I could sent it for service! I called Adorama Customer Service and the rep told me most people who bought the D600 have dust issues and are sending the camera back, my local store said they are aware of the issue but they don't have customers complaining about dust. Nikon wants me to send it for service and I refuse! Poor quality control is not acceptable, I will not send back a camera that I had less than 1 week so they can service it. Why should I pay for their mistake? they should send me a new one free of sensor debris!! I love the camera and I am still debating if I should just return it and be done with Nikon, or give it another shot. Ugh!!
  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,396Moderator
    @ stl_baglover

    As I read your post:"I called Adorama Customer Service and the rep told me most people who bought the D600 have dust issues and are sending the camera back".

    So, why did you not send the second camera back?
    Msmoto, mod
  • stl_bagloverstl_baglover Posts: 7Member
    @ MSmoto.. simply because I was still trying to figure out if I wanted a refund or a replacement. When I talked to Adorama they said I had 3 options, get an exchange, get a refund or call Nikon to get a replacement or get the camera fixed. So I contacted Nikon CS to ask if they had a solution for this problem. (to decide if I'd get a 3rd body) I spoke with a very nice Customer Service Rep and I told him about my issues and that I wanted to know what Nikon was doing to handle the complains of dust/ oil. He just asked to see pictures to see the "spots" and told me to wait 2 days for their response 9since he was off). I got an email saying they could see the spots but they can only service the camera and that thousands of D600 body have been sold and they have no issues.. I guess it's time to send my camera back to Adorama :(
  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,396Moderator
    edited January 2013
    Yup, I think the dealers are doing a much better job at taking care of customers than Nikon. Or, Nikon requires the dealers to handle these problems. This saves Nikon a real nightmare with returns, trying to credit dealers, etc.

    It is like a car...you would not send it back to the manufacturers but handle any problems through the dealer.
    Post edited by Msmoto on
    Msmoto, mod
  • stl_bagloverstl_baglover Posts: 7Member
    It's a real shame, I love the camera and I was hoping they had a fix for the dust, but it's seems like the best choice is to send it back. The local camera guys told me to try the D800, but at this point I am unsure about Nikon's quality control and Customer service (I have lots of research to do). I have to say Adorama was excellent to deal with their CS was great!
  • roombarobotroombarobot Posts: 201Member

    I too want to love my D600. On paper it is the perfect camera for me, more than I need, perhaps, but everything I want. Unfortunately I do not trust it a bit. I wish I had returned it right away. I don't take that many shots, so by the time I realized the extent of my problems, I was beyond the 30-day return period. Now my camera is returning from its 3rd service. :(

    I don't know what else to do? Is there a lemon law that I can get a replacement, or better yet a refund? I'd kick in the extra money to get a D800 at this point, just so I didn't need to worry about all these spots.
  • timekeepertimekeeper Posts: 8Member
    edited January 2013
    I too want to love my D600. On paper it is the perfect camera for me, more than I need, perhaps, but everything I want. Unfortunately I do not trust it a bit. I wish I had returned it right away.
    ...
    I'd kick in the extra money to get a D800 at this point, just so I didn't need to worry about all these spots.
    I ordered a D800 today from B&H. I'll return the D600 to Costco after I get the D800. They have a 90 day return policy. I spoke to the manager at Costco to see if I could try another body, but he said just to return it. I guess I could have bought another one at Costco, it seems I'd have the same problem as others had reported with getting 2nd 3rd bodies. :( I would have looked at Canon, but I have a couple of Nikon lenses and flash.



    Post edited by timekeeper on
  • stl_bagloverstl_baglover Posts: 7Member

    I too want to love my D600. On paper it is the perfect camera for me, more than I need, perhaps, but everything I want. Unfortunately I do not trust it a bit. I wish I had returned it right away. I don't take that many shots, so by the time I realized the extent of my problems, I was beyond the 30-day return period. Now my camera is returning from its 3rd service. :(

    I don't know what else to do? Is there a lemon law that I can get a replacement, or better yet a refund? I'd kick in the extra money to get a D800 at this point, just so I didn't need to worry about all these spots.
    Oh gosh, that is terrible. I thought the spots went away after a few thousand actuations but I guess it's not in every camera. I do not want to be in your situation and have to send the camera back to be serviced often and then have to pay out of my pocket to have it cleaned and be without the camera!! On paper the D600 was everything I had wished for at a killer price, it's a shame it has the dust/oil sensor problems.
    Good luck, I hope somehow Nikon makes it right for you.
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,442Moderator
    edited January 2013
    Yup, I think the dealers are doing a much better job at taking care of customers than Nikon. Or, Nikon requires the dealers to handle these problems. This saves Nikon a real nightmare with returns, trying to credit dealers, etc.

    It is like a car...you would not send it back to the manufacturers but handle any problems through the dealer.
    Interesting possibilities behind that comment Tommie - do you think then that Nikon prefer a dealer to exchange a body the dealer then just cleans the sensor of the returned camera and sends it back out to the next complainer? From what I've read here, you don't get a new camera back necessarily - Pippigurl got one with some actuations on - so who knows what you are going to get back.
    Post edited by spraynpray on
    Always learning.
  • SatoSato Posts: 50Member
    Well mine came brand new, Or at least appeared so. () actuation's)
    But the first signs of spots are already appearing (Less then 50 shots)
    Not necessarily noticeable on f/8 or faster, But very obvious at f/16, 1/60, Flash and with the lens out of focus.

    Not sure what to do now, This camera feels and handles so much better then the D5100 that I don't want to be forced to go back to that.
    But if Nikon doesn't want to take responsibility for a flawed product, Then why should I?
  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,396Moderator
    @ spraynpray

    I think Nikon is simply allowing the dealers to deal directly with the customers, as I said, like a car dealer. As to what happens to the returned cameras, it may be that these are sent to Nikon, cleaned, and sent out as exchange units. This would make sense to me and if Nikon is actually finding a fix for the problem, applying this to the "cleaned" bodies, I think I would be happy. My guess is, Nikon does not want everyone to know what they are doing, maybe because folks might demand a brand new body in exchange.

    For Nikon to attempt to handle the cleaning itself, well, we know that the service is already less than speedy and to have to deal with all the exchanges, I doubt they could handle this in any reasonable way.
    Msmoto, mod
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,442Moderator
    Well, we thought there was a fix as Pippi's camera looked like it was OK, but she has just checked it at 1200 actuations to find lots of spots so there is no fix and still no communication or acceptance of a problem. She is being forced to go for a D800.
    Always learning.
  • MsmotoMsmoto Posts: 5,396Moderator
    @ spraynpray

    Thanks, and this is exactly the reason I would encourage anyone who possibly could to go with the D800. But, we all find we have to sacrifice to get the equipment we need/want.

    @ Pippi If you get the D800 my guess is you will find it is more than you could ever have imagined. My friends tell me it is phenomenal. And one does not have to shoot the 50MB files.

    Msmoto, mod
  • rschnaiblerschnaible Posts: 308Member
    Nikon is going down a path that may lead to a place they find uncomfortable..... Nikon needs to speak up and speak to the consumer. This is not a time for them to remain silent, they have come to a fork in the road.
  • Benji2505Benji2505 Posts: 522Member
    edited January 2013
    "
    Interesting possibilities behind that comment Tommie - do you think then that Nikon prefer a dealer to exchange a body the dealer then just cleans the sensor of the returned camera and sends it back out to the next complainer? From what I've read here, you don't get a new camera back necessarily - Pippigurl got one with some actuations on - so who knows what you are going to get back."

    I would agree, the least they can do is to reset the shutter count to zero after cleaning.
    >:)
    Post edited by Benji2505 on
  • Benji2505Benji2505 Posts: 522Member
    Nikon is going down a path that may lead to a place they find uncomfortable..... Nikon needs to speak up and speak to the consumer. This is not a time for them to remain silent, they have come to a fork in the road.
    Bob, it is a Japanese Company. Different culture. If they are afraid to loose their face they won't do anything (publicly).
  • proudgeekproudgeek Posts: 1,422Member
    It's almost as if Nikon believes that this issue will clean itself up over time with an indeterminate number of actuations (say 8,000). At this point they may believe that the best way to deal with this is to continue taking new cameras in with soiled sensors, cleaning those sensors, then sending them back out to customers as refurbished replacements in the hopes that in 6 months the issue will have taken care of itself. This probably would have been much easier to pull off in the pre-Internet days.
  • roombarobotroombarobot Posts: 201Member

    When you send in your camera to Nikon Service, you get the same camera back.

    @Spraynpray, wait, you are saying that @Pipigurl is now seeing spots? I missed that, where did she report that?
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,442Moderator
    @rschnaible : Spot on.

    @Benji2505: Comments about the culture - spot on.

    @proudgeek: Comment about pre-internet days - spot on.

    @roombarobot: She is too pi$$ed-off to post, so in a PM to me.

    I think the silence will damage Nikon more than some miss-conceived loss of face. I am concerned about the effect on their up until now great reputation. Even Canon came clean about light leaks etc. (although not lenses falling off) - I wonder what the difference is in structure or culture at the top that gave them the good sense to do that?
    Always learning.
  • pippigurlpippigurl Posts: 241Member
    I don't often get into the "hormone hell" I was in yesterday after talking with Nikon for almost an hour trying to resolve my D600 issues. Just let me tell you...the person I spoke with doesn't have a clue. If she is required to deviate fro her "tent-fold" of scripted responses in front of her...she is lost. But for her to tell me that I was the first person to present this issue was blood boiling. I proceeded to verbalize all the negative reviews title lines that are posted on the NIKON website. Alas..when asked if I sent my body into service would they just clean it or fix it...she told me they evaluate each case individually. I then said my goodbyes and called the retailer though which I bought thew D600. In five minutes the perosn had generated a return label and emailed it, had a management person express his regrets and gave me a $200 discount off the D800. So...Spray I was not forced but looked at it as a good option of only about $500 difference now. So...done deal! On it's way now.
    Do I need this D800 body? Probably not. But, one learns from challenges. MsMoto this just reinforces your thought about the handling of this issue. Best to all.
  • spraynprayspraynpray Posts: 6,442Moderator
    Glad you're over it Pippi. I said forced because you had no option in terms of keeping the body of your choice - the D600 - but the sweetener of getting the D800 with $200 reduction helped no doubt!

    Hopefully you can now concentrate on creating images. [-O<
    Always learning.
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