D7100 vs. EOS 70D

JJ_SOJJ_SO Posts: 1,158Member
edited July 2013 in D90/D7x00
I don't want to attract Canon shooters to join the NRF. It just so happened that I mistakenly mentioned the new EOS 70D in the 1100+ posts discussion about a D400. And that was because the Canon has some features I really miss on each NIkon:
Inbuilt WLAN
Touchscreen
Swivel display
19 cross-type AF sensors
excellent video from what I saw

So, I continue a chat with PB_PM here. He replied:
In which aspects you see the D7100 above the 70D?
The D7100 has better build, partial mag alloy vs all plastic, a 51 point AF system vs 19, dual card slots, 100% viewfinder vs 98%, has mic and headphone jacks (only mic jack on 70D) and uses Nikkor lenses. The last point alone makes the D7100 a better camera. :P

Wifi in a camera, frankly is useless to me. Why would I want to send crappy low quality JPEGS from my camera to my smartphone? Unless you do a lot of tethered shooting it is useless. Wifi = meh. The new liveview focusing and 16 frame RAW buffer are the only things that are even remotely impressive about the 70D.
@PB_PM 19 against 51 sounds convincing. 19 cross-type sensors to 15 - still convincing? And those you can tap on the screen instead of selecting with a dial. I saw a movie made with it. Some focus draws in it are just impossible or crap out of D7100. So, to your addition another one: The D7100 may be better on photos even if this would be worth a discussion. But if it comes to video one needs to deal with tons of compromises or missed targets.

Anyway, let's see how the AF of Canon behaves in real world. My D7100 had the left side weaker AF issue...

So, if you only look at the things you want for your photography, you may be right. And talking about the swivel display is useless if one doesn't see or need it's advantages. I see the EOS as superior in some aspects. And it could use Nikkors although it doesn't make much sense to work with an adapter. But it can use Sigmas with all functions. And some Canon lenses, I learnt, do outperform (and outprice in terms of more expensive) the Nikkor compared to it.

If Nikon would make one model with those features I mentioned I would exchange my D7100 tomorrow. Or in the next few days, after the D400 comes out :D
Post edited by JJ_SO on
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Comments

  • Golf007sdGolf007sd Posts: 2,840Moderator
    The WiFi is useless to me as well. One of the key feature that I wanted when I first got into DSLR with my D7000 was that it has 100% viewfinder. Canon sure dropped the ball on that part...that alone would make me not by this body...or any DSLR if it lacked such a feature.

    As for video, how about the D7100 clean HDMI out. And the D7100 does a great job on video as well.
    D4 & D7000 | Nikon Holy Trinity Set + 105 2.8 Mico + 200 F2 VR II | 300 2.8G VR II, 10.5 Fish-eye, 24 & 50 1.4G, 35 & 85 1.8G, 18-200 3.5-5.6 VR I SB-400 & 700 | TC 1.4E III, 1.7 & 2.0E III, 1.7 | Sigma 35 & 50 1.4 DG HSM | RRS Ballhead & Tripods Gear | Gitzo Monopod | Lowepro Gear | HDR via Promote Control System |
  • JJ_SOJJ_SO Posts: 1,158Member
    Come on, 2% less coverage will not screw up a single photo!

    To me, WiFi is not pointless. It's just a piece of gear I'd love to leave at home, this CamRanger with the fiddly set up -that would be saved by the EOS and nonetheless, I could shoot tethered with an iPod.

    Have you seen the videos coming out of D7100? When the focus changes, it's pumping like hell. No points for that feature to the D7100. And what good are mic and headphone connector, if the recorded sound has frequency holes to hide an elephant in? Of course exaggerated. But male voices sounds everything else but male.
  • IronheartIronheart Posts: 3,017Moderator
    http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-70d:

    In the table below we see how some of the EOS 70D's key specs measure up against its more expensive big brother, the EOS 7D, and its main rival, the Nikon D7100. What's interesting here is just how close the 70D is to the 7D in terms of spec - in much the same way as Nikon's D7000 made the D300S look almost redundant, it's quite difficult to see why most Canon users would now choose the top-end APS-C model.
  • PapermanPaperman Posts: 469Member
    edited July 2013
    " in much the same way as Nikon's D7000 made the D300S look almost redundant, it's quite difficult to see why most Canon users would now choose the top-end APS-C model. "

    A sign of maybe both D400 & 7DMII coming out FF ?? :|
    Post edited by Paperman on
  • JJ_SOJJ_SO Posts: 1,158Member
    That's what I thought so, too. Nikon was quite fast in announcements of all the nice things we got last two years.
  • KuvKuv Posts: 55Member
    I don't want to attract Canon shooters to join the NRF. It just so happened that I mistakenly mentioned the new EOS 70D in the 1100+ posts discussion about a D400. And that was because the Canon has some features I really miss on each NIkon:
    Inbuilt WLAN
    Touchscreen
    Swivel display

    19 cross-type AF sensors
    excellent video from what I saw
    God forbid. I want a rugged camera. Not a cheap plastic toy.
  • DaveyJDaveyJ Posts: 958Member
    Realize the swivel screen does not have the following that some think it does. Frankly I detest them. It does greatly weaken the camera. Plus swivel screens are harder to use as SCREENS. The upgrade that is absolute requirement on a D400 is REASONABLE price and substantially better video. I am very happy with the D7100 as an interim camera. But the D400 has some easy ground for improvement. Also I still maintain that if the price is too high the DX D400 will not be anything I would buy. I looked at the Canon 70D and confess I was impressed by some features. But hardly enough to buy one with Nikon very possibly ready to launch a D400.
  • JJ_SOJJ_SO Posts: 1,158Member
    "swivel screens are harder to use as SCREENS." how come? When I turn the screen of the D5100 I can use it as every other screen. Never found that hard, can you explain? And what do you mean by "Realize the swivel screen does not have the following that some think it does."?
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,122Member
    edited July 2013
    Traditionally swivel screens were lower quality, due to having less space for the electronics, but I don't think that is the case anymore. I don't buy that they are harder to use, I just don't find them any better to use.

    As for 15 cross type vs 19, still kind of meh, considering that the AF system from the 7D (now in the 70D) was considered to be less accurate than the one found in the D300s (now used in the D7100), I don't see that augment for superiority. Who cares if it has a 4 more points, if they don't work as well?

    As for the touch screen, I use liveview a few times a year and for video. Thus it would have no impact on my shooting style. I wouldn't use the touch screen for video either, since just about anyone who shoots high quality video focuses manually anyway.
    Post edited by PB_PM on
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • DaveyJDaveyJ Posts: 958Member
    PB PM's response sums up my take on this swivel screen and touch screen features. If the D400 had such features I would regard it as rubbish. I also have used auto focus on most of the better videos I have shot with the D7100. I don't think it makes a bit of difference how focus is attained, as long as a lens is in focus with the intended subject. One of our Nikon DSLR cameras has a manual focus puller on it almost constantly. My grandson prefers it. I use a almost exact camera and use the technique of shooting a still of the subject area and then engaging the live view mode then record.
  • JJ_SOJJ_SO Posts: 1,158Member
    edited July 2013
    Who cares if it has a 4 more points, if they don't work as well?
    who cares of 32 more focus points, if the left side is less accurate to use? ;) 'sides, not many people at this time know how well it works. I know a Canon shooter who still finds her 7D more accurate (in action situations) then her D800.

    But your reasons are as good as mine to me. I understand that Nikon serves the professionals in the way all 3-digit numbers are designed. Please understand that some of those features I find useless and very difficult to find in certain endless menus.

    And as for the focus to be tapped on the touchscreen: I'm sure it will have some flaws at some difficult situations. At the moment, the D7100 focus is a pretty nervous thing to use, so I don't see it better. And the AF is different than the one in the 7D, at least if the specs are not only new words for old tech. Why is it so difficult for some Nikon shooters to admit Canon does the better job if it comes to video? At least, they can change aperture while recording movies.

    Although I never shot with a Canon DSLR, be it still or video. But the making of this movie is shown in that one. Contrary to the dozens of folks needed for Nikon movies I found it pretty good, that only one person operates the cam. And benefits form that touchscreen instead of fumbling around with focus puller and larger HDM Monitor
    Post edited by JJ_SO on
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,122Member
    edited July 2013
    Who cares if it has a 4 more points, if they don't work as well?
    who cares of 32 more focus points, if the left side is less accurate to use? 'sides, not many people at this time know how well it works. I know a Canon shooter who still finds her 7D more accurate (in action situations) then her D800...

    Why is it so difficult for some Nikon shooters to admit Canon does the better job if it comes to video? At least, they can change aperture while recording movies.
    That is true of some of the consumer models. The D800 and D4 can change aperture in video just fine. Why Nikon has crippled the lower end models is beyond me, no argument there.

    I on the other hand have used Canon DSLRs. To be honest the difference between the two brands is so small that the average user wouldn't even notice the difference. I think the only people that might have a hard time switching are older users, who's muscle memory is fine tuned to Nikon cameras.

    As to the AF issue. I haven't used a current generation model, so this might not be the case today, but Canon's cross type points are about as good at subject tracking as Nikon's non-cross type in my experience. For still subject matter, I'd say they are perfectly equal. That said, the lens used has a huge impact on how the systems work, and I've not had the opportunity to work with at Canon F2.8 or faster lenses to directly compare the performance.
    Post edited by PB_PM on
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • blackfoxblackfox Posts: 48Member
    i sat down yesterday and read the actual article on this in a online copy of digital camera magazine ?? ,i was so impressed with the factual way it was laid out ,i got in the car and got to the camera store 5 minutes before closing time and bought a nice new NIKON D7100 .my lad has been trying to talk me into going back to canon for a few weeks but if the 70d was the model he was pinning his hopes on its a no brainer ,i go out with a camera to take photos and get away from it all ,every other gimmick on the canon i already have on my phone anyway .
    i dont shoot video ( though its a possibility ) i just take pics ,and that takes all my time ,i cannot for the love of me see why anyone would buy a stills camera to shoot films surely a proper video cam would be better .
    anyway rant over i am only on day one with the 7100 and have been using a d300s and d7000 up till now ,as of today they are both for sale this baby is a beast and i,m seriously smitten by it ;-0)
  • JJ_SOJJ_SO Posts: 1,158Member
    Your phone has a swivel display? Doesn't it disturb a bit when ringing somebody?

    Just kidding. If you don't understand why people do use DSLRs for video, leave it that way and have fun with D7100. Congrats and good light for it.
  • safyresafyre Posts: 113Member
    The swivel for the 70D is definitely good for people shooting video. However, If that were the case I'd rather go for a D5200 if I was just wanting to do video. Now for both video and photos, the 70D looks like a good middleground.

    I used to be the type that hated swivels on prosumer-professional grade cameras as well; and then I realized that it can help you get photos from different vantage points which would have been much harder to do without it. Not to mention the video of course. I feel like sooner or later more camera's will integrate these features because of the added benefit. Yes people will still hate on it because it's not "pro" looking and doesn't fit into their idea of a camera, but these are the same guys that hated digital because they thought that having a screen and all those menu controls would make a camera "harder to use."
  • someonenikonsomeonenikon Posts: 7Member
    "That is true of some of the consumer models. The D800 and D4 can change aperture in video just fine"

    No they cant. you cannot aperture ramp during video... unless you have a lens with manual aperture. or unless i missed a firmware update or something.

    Magic Lantern is also a really compelling reason to choose the other guy.
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,122Member
    edited July 2013
    "That is true of some of the consumer models. The D800 and D4 can change aperture in video just fine"

    No they cant. you cannot aperture ramp during video... unless you have a lens with manual aperture. or unless i missed a firmware update or something.

    Magic Lantern is also a really compelling reason to choose the other guy.
    I never said during recording. :P In any case, changing the aperture during recording looks bad. If you stick a Nikon AI/AI-S lens on you can change the aperture whenever you like.
    Post edited by PB_PM on
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • AdeAde Posts: 1,071Member
    "That is true of some of the consumer models. The D800 and D4 can change aperture in video just fine"

    No they cant. you cannot aperture ramp during video... unless you have a lens with manual aperture. or unless i missed a firmware update or something.

    Magic Lantern is also a really compelling reason to choose the other guy.
    One can change aperture during video recording with the D800 (in A or M mode, obviously) . Presumably, the D4 works the same way, but I haven't tested one.

    As with stills, the finest aperture step is 1/3rd of a stop, so an aperture ramp may not be very smooth, with noticeable exposure changes between steps (not to mention the mechanical noise). Hence some people use "de-clicked" manual lenses which allow for continuous aperture changes. Or use a Variable ND instead.
  • someonenikonsomeonenikon Posts: 7Member
    sorry i thought you meant while recording... my bad. yes you can go in 1/3 steps...
  • JJ_SOJJ_SO Posts: 1,158Member
    Right, D800 can change aperture in live view and it's visible in video.
    But I was talking of D7100 class... Also, I think, using a dedicated movie lens with stepless aperture is the better way.
    What I found amazing was taping then screen while recording to pull focus. Given there's enough light, the camera did a fine job when doing that trick.
    I heard Canons can also perform a total, silent mode by not using the shutter for exposing while in Live view? There's an electronic shutter additional to the mechanical one. Although I still prefer the finder than LV screen for normal shooting, I could easily live without that noisy rumble when shooting in LV. Besides it's releasing directly without delay.
  • AdeAde Posts: 1,071Member
    It's not totally silent.

    For stills, normally there are two mechanical shutter movements (the "first" and "second" shutter curtains). On most Canons, when in quiet mode the "first" curtain is electronic, but there is still the "second" mechanical curtain. Some Sony cameras also have this feature.

    Full electronic shutter is only used in video mode (same for both Nikon and Canon). I believe the Nikon D4 can take HD frame grabs (JPEG) from the live video feed, so that's one way to take stills without any shutter noise.
  • JJ_SOJJ_SO Posts: 1,158Member
    edited July 2013
    @Ade Thanks a lot, good to know, I'll try that with D800.
    Post edited by JJ_SO on
  • AdeAde Posts: 1,071Member
    Unfortunately I don't think the D800 (or D7100) can do live frame grab. It's a feature only available on the D4.
  • JJ_SOJJ_SO Posts: 1,158Member
    You're right. Again. :)
  • blackfoxblackfox Posts: 48Member
    i think the rants after my post prove a point ,its all about video .as i said I BUY A SLR CAMERA to take photos LOL
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