Last days of the DSLR?

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Comments

  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,438Member
    edited January 2014
    To me the X-T1 seems to be what the Df should have been.
    In what way? Mirrorless? Is that what defines a good camera today? I don't see any reason why the Df should have been mirrorless. The smaller APS-C sensor, EVF and price are the only really different specs between the two.
    Post edited by PB_PM on
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • Golf007sdGolf007sd Posts: 2,840Moderator
    edited January 2014
    @PB_PM: Funny isn't it? Ohh and it also has only one memory card slot as well. As for battery life...how you like this spec when compared to the Df:

    "Battery life for stills: Approx 350 frames (When XF35mmF1.4R is set, LCD monitor/viewfinder on, and supplied flash EF-X8 not attached)

    As for hight ISO performance..well do I know what the D4 sensor can do, but as for the X-T1....we shall see.

    Post edited by Golf007sd on
    D4 & D7000 | Nikon Holy Trinity Set + 105 2.8 Mico + 200 F2 VR II | 300 2.8G VR II, 10.5 Fish-eye, 24 & 50 1.4G, 35 & 85 1.8G, 18-200 3.5-5.6 VR I SB-400 & 700 | TC 1.4E III, 1.7 & 2.0E III, 1.7 | Sigma 35 & 50 1.4 DG HSM | RRS Ballhead & Tripods Gear | Gitzo Monopod | Lowepro Gear | HDR via Promote Control System |
  • AdeAde Posts: 1,071Member
    It's not about specs but execution.

    To me the Df is a compromised design. E.g., the Df's shutter speed dial sometimes sets the shutter speed, sometimes gets overridden by the command dial, and sometimes tells you the wrong shutter speed (so you have to ignore it and check the LCD to see the actual shutter speed). Can anyone honestly say this good design? No, it's kludgy hack.

    Plus Nikon deliberately downgraded the camera to prevent competition with other models. Weak AF, no video, 5 fps, etc.

    Compare that to Fuji's approach. They didn't hold anything back. Best EVF in any camera with focus peaking and digital split image. 8 fps with full AF predictive tracking and fastest AF in any camera. Camera body and select lenses are fully weather sealed with water and freeze resistance. Full video mode including 60 fps 1080p. UHS-2 slot. Tilt LCD. Built-in WiFi. Available vertical battery grip. Etc.

    Even the control design is better thought out. E.g., no silly shutter dial design. No need for a P/S/A/M dial. No brainer approach to Auto ISO (just move the ISO dial to A). No fake aperture paint on lenses.

    All in a sleek, lightweight, compact package. The irony here is I feel the Fuji did a better job embodying the spirit of the old Nikon F, than Nikon did with the Df.

    It's been said here several times but I feel like Nikon stopped listening to its customers, starting with the debacle that was the D600 and creating the Df out of a marketing need to have a "high profit-margin product".

    Fuji, on the other hand, is attempting to make the best camera possible at a great price point. Have they succeeded? Maybe, maybe not. I'm sure the X-T1 has some flaws, but early reviews are universally positive.

    I still think mirrorless cameras need one more generation to "get things right", but I like where things are heading.

    Fuji, Olympus and Sony are innovating. Nikon, where are you?? Time is running out.
  • henrik1963henrik1963 Posts: 561Member
    Fuji X-T1 does not compete against Nikon Df - very different cameras - the only thing they have in common is "Retro". A better comparison is between Nikon D7100 and the X-T1.

    On paper the D7100 will still win on both price and performance - I am looking forward to a comparative review between the two.

    Last days of the DSLR? We are not there yet - but it seems that Fuji is closing the gap between mirror less and DSLR in APSC cameras.

    How can Nikon respond so they stay ahed of the game? Going mirror less? Maybe when the EVF can do better than OVF. Adding WiFi, GPS, Radio triggers for flashes and.........? Yes - get off your butt Nikon.

    In short: Nikon should add value and solve problems for users. That simple :-)
  • WestEndBoyWestEndBoy Posts: 1,456Member
    To me the X-T1 is what DX should be.

    But I will always pick full frame over a cropped sensor. If I am going to pick something smaller than full frame, it has to be small enough to fit in my pocket which rules out an inter-changeable lens. I already have that in my Coolpix A.
  • MikeGunterMikeGunter Posts: 543Member
    Hi all,

    The Fuji X=T1's APS-C interchangeable lenses are based on the X-Trams CMOS (Googleable - which I never thought would be a word), and they claim yields FX quality in a DX chip.

    Results are awfully impressive. They have heavy hitters at their site exalting the cameras and I'm tempted.

    Nice package...

    My best,

    Mike
  • WestEndBoyWestEndBoy Posts: 1,456Member
    Hi all,

    The Fuji X=T1's APS-C interchangeable lenses are based on the X-Trams CMOS (Googleable - which I never thought would be a word), and they claim yields FX quality in a DX chip.

    Results are awfully impressive. They have heavy hitters at their site exalting the cameras and I'm tempted.

    Nice package...

    My best,

    Mike
    Interesting claim, we will see if it has substance.

    But I still would not buy DX for something too big to fit in my pocket. I would just wait until the technology was available in FX format where I would get "mf quality in an FX chip".

    If we wait long enough, they will figure out how to get 500mp with clean 50,000 ISO on a CX chip (and a sharp enough lens??). Though perhaps not in my lifetime........
  • PB_PMPB_PM Posts: 4,438Member
    It's the same old X-Trans sensor we've been seeing for years now. It comes close to last gen full frame cameras (5D MkII and D700) but is no match for the D4/D800 in terms of noise and dynamic range.
    If I take a good photo it's not my camera's fault.
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited February 2014
    Had a play with the Sony A7r today
    lets just say I wont be selling my D800 any time soon
    I did not like the view finder at all
    and why does it have such a big exposure compensator that cannot even be locked
    if the exposure meter is as accurate as the D800 no compensation should be needed



    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • AdeAde Posts: 1,071Member
    An exposure compensation function is always required no matter how "accurate" the exposure meter is. A meter can only suggest an "average" lighting based on its matrix database. It can't read your mind and determine that you'd like to take an intentionally high-key, overexposed image, for example. So there always has to be a way to override (compensate) whatever exposure the meter is suggesting.
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    edited February 2014
    Ade..... May be If you shoot jpeg but with RAW I prefer to adjust highlights and shadows in post
    My main complaint, apart from the rubbish view finder , is the wheel cannot be locked
    looking at friends photos, the most common case of incorrect exposure is the compensation dial being fiddled with
    Post edited by sevencrossing on
  • SportsSports Posts: 365Member
    Plus Nikon deliberately downgraded the camera to prevent competition with other models. Weak AF, no video, 5 fps, etc.
    Compare that to Fuji's approach. They didn't hold anything back.
    Fuji, Olympus and Sony are innovating. Nikon, where are you?? Time is running out.
    In short: Nikon should add value and solve problems for users. That simple :-)
    True, if one is trying to decide which system to get, then, even if Nikon is "better" than Fuji right now, then Fuji is trying their best, and moving forward, whenever they release a new body. Fuji WILL be ahead of Nikon in two years, unless Nikon actually start moving.
    DSLR will die, not because of DSLR itself but because Nikon no longer innovates. They're ten times bigger than Fuji, but has done nothing new in two years, sorry, except they're pretty good at moving existing tech into cheaper bodies (while lowering quality in some cases, unfortunately).
    D300, J1
    Sigma 70-200/2.8, 105/2.8
    Nikon 50/1.4G, 18-200, 80-400G
    1 10-30, 30-110
  • sevencrossingsevencrossing Posts: 2,800Member
    In short: Nikon should add value and solve problems for users. That simple :-)
    I suppose it depends on whether you want
    Yes Nikon seem to have failed on the D600
    but apart from weight I cannot fault my D800 or any of the 6 Nikon lenses I own
    friends with the D7100 also seem very happy
    I would love to have an integrated pocket wizard but otherwise I am a happy Nikon user
    when Nikon brings out a camera the size and weight of a D7100 with the performance of a D800 I will be first in the queue






  • AdeAde Posts: 1,071Member
    Nikon 3rd quarter numbers are out:

    http://nikon.com/about/ir/ir_library/result/index.htm

    Good news: net income got a great boost (about 20%) from the weak Yen, pushing the 3rd quarter performance of the company as a whole to slightly beat street estimates (23.9 billion Yen actual vs. 23.1 billion Yen consensus estimate). This covers all of Nikon's businesses (IC steppers, cameras, scientific equipment, etc.)

    Bad news: Nikon cut guidance yet again for full-year DSLR unit sales, now down to 6 million from 6.2 million. This represents 14.1% drop in DSLR shipments year-over-year, which is in-line with the CIPA estimate of 14.6% drop in DSLR shipments industry-wide. Unit sales of mirrorless cameras are expected to drop slightly more (17% for the year).

    Overall: I think it's "sigh of relief" for investors as the numbers could have been worse. Nikon stock has been testing 52-week lows in the past few days and is recovering a bit in intraday trading (but is still sharply down at -33% for the year, I hope no one has been long on Nikon.)
  • richierorichiero Posts: 18Member
    DSLR's dead yet? Of course not! Dying... Since the first day the F came out in 1959. Nothing lasts forever. Mirrorless is still perfecting its user interface, its speed. It has a very high bar to reach when compared to the DSLR.
  • kenadamskenadams Posts: 222Member
    There's a lot of bias here...

    First off, comparing the X-T1 and the D4 is just silly for obvious reasons. Let me just say that not everyone can afford a D4, and maybe - just maybe - not everyone who could would want to get one. The Df is in itself a silly product, an amalgamation of the current two main driving factors on the market, retro and FX, and not for the best, since all the rest inside it is neither top of the line nor particularly well thought through. Except for the price of course.

    Fuji on the other hand has at least been innovative with its products. You don't have to like them, but you can hardly ignore them either. And here's the kicker - they're small. One thing they have over the D4. Don't forget, other, lowlier products have they're benefits, for which by many they are actually preferred over items in the price range of small cars. I crossed the Alps on foot last year, and although I keep thinking about getting a used D3, I keep coming back to the thought of me hauling that behemoth around with me for 150kms and over 7000 altimeters, and I quickly forget about it. A mirrorless would have been great here, for instance an X-E1 with the 35mm. Very handy, pretty small, and seems to pack quite a punch.

    Not a big fan of EVFs here, they still have some way to go, but a mechanically moving mirror...?? I mean, really??
  • MikeGunterMikeGunter Posts: 543Member
    Hi all,

    @ kenadams - Fujifilm makes any number of perfect products for a trip like that from the X20 to any of the X mount cameras - any of which I would have rather carried rather than a D4. ;-)

    Hope your enjoyed your trip!

    My best,

    Mike
  • DaveyJDaveyJ Posts: 1,007Member
    A lot depends on how you shoot currently what your take on shutter sound and mirrorless is. Those who shoot burst stills want mirrorless usually. If the image the photographer sees though is "as sharp as ground glass" then we have a win-win situation in my mind and it would be taken as evolution towards perfection. When I photograph is rapid burst mode some wildlife I shoot do not walk away.....they run like hell or fly away! I have owned a number of mirrorless cameras and way more money in them too. I also feel that if you WANT to turn people off just try rapid burst photos with the camera pointed at them. "No Pictures!" is the usual response around those who are sensitive to their images being in public like movie stars, etc. No question the mirror is a technical "downer" but how to get the camera pointed in the right direction often when high speed and sharp focus is required. I don't see the DSLR being replaced for most of us anytime soon. Love TaoTeJared's posting!
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