Beginners Tripod

PB_PM

I wouldn't cheap out on a tripod or ballhead, you'll just end up spending more later when you realize what you have isn't good enough or is too heavy to carry around. This is the rule I use, buy for the type of gear you would like to be using in 5-6 years. For example, say are starting out with a D5200 today, but want to shoot with a D4 (or whatever replaces it) in the next 5 years. You might have a 70-300mm VR today, but you want to replace it with a AF-S 300mm F2.8G VR within 5 years. So buy a tripod and head combo that will be able to hold what you plan to use in the future, not what you have right now. Buy a tripod+head once, use the rest of your money to buy the gear you need to shoot what you like.

Golf007sd

@PB_PM: Words of wisdom.

I think perhaps it is time for me to do another video and have it speak on my behalf. If a picture is "worth a thousand words".... I wonder what value one can place on a video? :-?

EricBowles

Good comments here. If you are going to buy gear, the top priority is a first rate ballhead. The Markins Q10 or RRS BH40 are good options but there are alternatives. There are no standards for measuring the amount of weight a ballhead supports. Markins heads are rated to 50 pounds or more. RRS heads are rated lower, but I've seen both hold a person - and that's more than the tripod legs can support. It's not so much the weight the gear supports, but the size of the ball. A larger ballhead balances better with whatever the load. And a well crafted ballhead is a joy to use - so you'll use it and get better images.

Legs are a good place to save money - but don't cut too many corners. A slightly more robust tripod does not cost much more than a borderline tripod. If you need to save money, choose aluminum or alloy over carbon fiber. Look for used tripods from top brands - especially Gitzo and Manfrotto. For a new tripod, consider Induro or Feisol rather than Gitrzo or RRS. The Manfrotto 055 series is a good option. Stay away from the ultralite travel tripods - they are best as a second tripod not a primary tripod.

Absolutely stick with Arca Swiss plates and quick release. Try to stick with one or two brands for plates to avoid future compatibility issues.

JJ_SO

I miss some parameters in TTJ's calculations ;;)

When always using the mirror pre-release, most of the heads available will perform nicely.

Depending on focal length, some of them will already work on their upper limits. And if a big shutter vibration without mirror pre-release adds it's energy to the calculation figures, they sometimes should be capable much more than double the weight. But that depends on the energy of the shutter's movement.

And the downward force will only at 90° be the full weight - before it depends very much on the length of the level - the distance from ball center to center of weight of the cam with lens. But of course, we want to be able to perform portrait shots, and if one doesn't have an L-plate, here we have the full weight as force downwards.

So, it's not so easy to get numbers for ballhead (or head in general) capabilities, one needs always to look at focal lengths and weight of the biggest lens one wants to use.

TaoTeJared

JJ_SO - you need to revisit your physics. It is the force on the fulcrum point (i.e. ball joint) and the forces at work pulling against the friction. The forces at work at a 45° angle are higher than at 90°.

The focal length doesn't attribute to anything and the shutter vibration is so small it doesn't add anything. Shutter vibration exists whether you have a 5lb head or one rated to 40lbs.

JJ_SO

TTJ, I see too many false assumptions and I don't want to debate them, you seem to be very convinced you're right. It doesn't matter to me and I don't want to waste anybodie's time including mine.

Msmoto

While there are many opinions on the subject, it would appear that this is potentially a result of the various experiences by the posters. For those who have shot with studio stands....i.e., 3 meter tall side arm rigs, it gets to be so nice one can assume the vibrations are damped almost instantly. ANd, I think it follows, the more weight of the tripod, the quicker the vibrations are damped.

I have two very old (40+ years) aluminum tripods which weigh 6-8 pounds each, and when a camera is mounted on one of these, it is very secure. The advantage of spending 10 times as much for a new carbon tripod may be simply ease of use and convenience.

JJ_SO

Absolutely. If the head is stiff enough and the legs heavy enough, the shutter's energy will just be swallowed. Pulling a paper wall with a rubberstring is doable. Pulling a concrete wall with the same string - no effect.

The point is only, concrete walls are a pain to carry around.

syn3rgy

Hi All,

Firstly, just want to say thank you to everyone for their contributions and pointing out different bits and bobs, really appreciate it.

I have to say, I am finding this quite overwhelming and difficult to make a decision. I tried to go visit a couple of camera shops this weekend and all the ones in London just seem to sell Manfrotto and the one shop that i found had only one Giottos Tripod and one Gitzo

After reading different reviews etc, I think i have been put off slightly by the kit tripod that i originally posted about since it contains a 5 leg section and think this could be a little bit of an issue since they get very thin near the bottom and also could be a bit annoying etc.

I think, the best way to approach this, will be to break it down into two sections, firstly the head then the body. I have only chosen this order as i feel am more closer to making a decision on head than the legs at the moment.
(please tell me if i am being foolish taking this approach)

Two different heads (from Giottos) that I have been looking at are as follows:

Ball Head Series II with Sliding Quick Release
http://www.giottos-tripods.co.uk/index.php?page=productpage&cat=49130e8d88135&product=518a6639e786f


MH1300-652 (Very bottom of the page)
http://www.giottos-tripods.co.uk/index.php?page=productpage&cat=49130e8d88135&product=4918502ce3a47

Now, couple of questions

1) Does anyone see a huge benefit of having the sliding plate in the fist one over not having it in the 2nd one?
2) does anyone have any Giottos Ball heads that would like to share their experiences?
3) By getting the head first, will this cause a lot of issues or limit my choice in tripod legs due to mounting screw sizes etc?

Dont get me wrong, i would love to by RRS or alternative however, it is just out of my budget.

I see a lot of people here mentioning to get a mix of parts from different makers ie. ball head, tripod, quick release plate.

Since the Giottos comes with a quick release plate, would it still be recommended to change this and if so, to what and why and, by changing the quick release plate will this be compatible with the Giottos ball head?

Tripod
I think this will have to be "Section 2" hehe and i guess will be based on a few things above and other facts especially budget.

Msmotto, you mentioend that you had an induro tripod which made me go look it up and have a look at the different products and came across this one which is slightly higher than budged but not unobtainable

http://www.indurogear.com/products_details_CT214.html#specs

I looked at the Gitzo range but i think those are a little out of my price range.


Again, thank you all for your input and i look forward to seeing what you have to say about the above and reading your comments and suggestions

sevencrossing

The very big advantage of the Giottos Vitruvian, is that the tripod, the ball socket and QR plate combined are both light, compact and very well made ; I do not think you find a better combination, of this size and weight
If size and weight are not your priority, then then you have a very wide range of options; as others have said, it is very much a personal choice

Ade

Hi syn3rgy,

Most quick release systems (including the Giottos listed) are better suited for camcorders than for DSLRs, in my opinion. They use an anti-rotation pin to prevent the camera from twisting on the QR plate:


(anti-rotation pin on a video QR plate)

However, most DSLRs (Nikons at least) do not have the matching "hole" to accommodate this pin. As a result, you have to really tighten the tripod screw (not a great idea) to prevent twisting by using friction only. Not a great situation when you have to shoot verticals with heavy lenses.

You'll also notice that the quick release plate shown with the "Sliding Quick Release" has the wrong shape for DSLRs. Camcorders are long (front-to-back) whereas DSLRs are wide (side-to-side):


(a sliding QR plate may have the wrong shape / direction for DSLRs)

The Arca-Swiss system, in contrast, typically use custom plates each shaped to fit a particular camera body or lens model. So even in the absence of the anti-rotation pin, the Arca-Swiss plate will not twist by virtue of its tailored shape. This is one reason why they are popular with photographers. The downside is you have to buy a plate specific for your camera (or lens) model to benefit from this arrangement.

Some ball-heads have removable/replaceable QR systems, but most don't.

tcole1983

I guess I will chime in here. I still use a tripod I got as a gift. I don't even know the brand, but it isn't a really high end one. I think it came from best buy (sunpack maybe?). Anyway it has worked just fine for me. As much as I use it, it does the job. I know most recommend very nice ones, but in the end if it keeps your camera stable that is all it was meant to do. I wouldn't go super cheap if you are putting a lot of weight on it, but I don't think you need to go overboard. my $.02

TaoTeJared

Giottos has good products. I had a ball head like the second one you mentioned - sold it mainly because I got such a good deal on the one I mentioned above. Induro is good as well. Seen them, never used them - but they seemed to be a very well built tripod. The one you posted the link to is a large one. I would think the CT114 (or similar weight load specs) would be more than good enough.

I actually use the QR plate that ADe posted (Manfrotto)- although I don't mount it the same but have it cover the whole base (opposite way that he shows.) It is a love/hate relationship - I don't particularly like them due to the size, but they hold the body very well (no twisting) and are cheap, and the local camera shop sells them. The little knobby thing serves no purpose for DSLRs, but doesn't hinder anything either. If Arca type was what came with a head a long time ago, that is what I would be using. No real positive or negative for either in use, they both serve their purpose with proficiency. Arca types seem to run much higher in price though - but I'm sure there are some cheap ones out there.

The key is to get something that you WILL take with you. If you get something too big, it is much easier to convince yourself that you don't need it - then to realize years later you never used it or worse wish you had. Most of the people who have chimed in here (including myself) make some money or their living off of what they use so the cost and use is justified and there is no decision in taking what they have along - it is always in the car. Point being, most of us need due to what we put on it (heavy pro gear) or the conditions we shoot in. It doesn't mean you may have the "need" for the same thing.

Msmoto

The thread is expanding, but an interesting aspect has been identified. On the 70-200mm f/2.8 and the 400mm f/2.8, I have drilled and tapped a second hole in the foot to allow a second small screw from the ARCA Swiss plate, primarily to eliminate the possibility of the unit twisting on the plate when being carried over my shoulder.

And, if one really wants to eliminate vibrations, two tripods, one on camera, one on lens will do this well for fixed subjects, long exposures.

Ade

I actually use the QR plate that ADe posted (Manfrotto)- although I don't mount it the same but have it cover the whole base (opposite way that he shows.)

Mounting the plate "sideways" may work but defeats the purpose of having a long sliding plate & head to begin with. The plate is long so it can be moved "forwards" or "backwards" on the tripod head to compensate for different lens weights / CGs. E.g., mounting a heavier lens shifts the centre-of-gravity "forward", so you can compensate by sliding the plate backwards to keep the CG optimally positioned on top of the head.

This feature only works if the plate is mounted correctly, with the long side along the axis of the lens. Otherwise don't bother getting a sliding QR (which is more expensive). Get the regular QR system instead and save the money.

Another issue with mounting the plate sideways is that many heads & accessories are directional and expect the camera to be pointed "forward". Otherwise the knobs/dials/buttons will be ergonomically in the wrong position. E.g., if you attach a panning handle, the handle will now be "out of position" and sticks out to the side instead of towards the operator, because the camera has been rotated 90 degrees.

sevencrossing

The thread is expanding,.

But is has moved away from the original topic Beginners Tripod; making searching for the new topic somewhat challenging

TaoTeJared

Ade - my plate doesn't move more than a 1/8" of an inch on the mount. The safety features doesn't allow for it. If you read the original manual the length is not to slide it to the center of gravity, but for stabilization and anti twist having more area grabbing onto the body. If you look at their site, you will not see a camera mounted in the way you have it shown above.

bigeater

If you're going to the trouble of using a tripod, here's a tip that will improve the quality of your photos 100 to 1,000 percent: Use mirror lock up and a remote release. Higher megapixel cameras are so sensitive to any movement that unless you have the delicate hands of a safe cracker there's no way to shoot without getting vibration in your shots. The correct sequence is to stand clear of the camera, use the remote release to lock up the mirror, wait for several seconds to let the mirror vibrations subside, then actuate the shutter.

spraynpray

My D7K has delayed exposure mode which basically does that automatically. I've never used MUP on that camera yet - I wonder if I am missing a trick?

Ade

my plate doesn't move more than a 1/8" of an inch on the mount. The safety features doesn't allow for it. [...] If you look at their site, you will not see a camera mounted in the way you have it shown above.

TTJ you are too funny.

The QR head syn3rgy linked to is called a Sliding Quick Release head for a reason: the plate can slide!

In a proper sliding QR head, there are two safety catches on the slot (one in the "front" and one on the "back"). This allows the plate to float about two inches on the head (between the two safety catches), before the friction lock is engaged.

When you look at the long plate, just the position of the anti-rotation pin gives a clue on how the plate should be mounted. (Hint: not sideways!) On most plates, if you flip the plate over there is also an arrow clearly showing the correct lens direction:


(Point the lens in this direction, please!)

If that's not clear enough, here again is the link syn3rgy provided for the sliding QR head:

http://www.giottos-tripods.co.uk/index.php?page=productpage&cat=49130e8d88135&product=518a6639e786f

There is a "Video Feature" on the right hand side of the page. Go to 0:57. Here's the transcript:

"Model MH1300-621 features a sliding plate, that allows you to counterbalance the weight of your camera and lens, before adjusting the friction control."

The video clearly shows the camera on its plate being slid front-and-back, to optimally position the CG on top of the head.

This is the "reason to be" for the long plate. Otherwise, just use a short plate. And no, don't depend solely on "friction" to keep the camera twisting on the plate. That's a very bad idea! When using heavy lenses, with just friction the mounting screw has to be so tight that countless people end up stripping the socket thread.

Yes I'm sure there are many photographers who are incorrectly mounting their plates "sideways", but really they should know better!

syn3rgy

Would this then be mounting it incorrectly?
http://www.birdsasart.com/giottos.htm

If the place gets mounted onto the camera Vertically to the base of the camera instead of horizontally to the camera base, how much would it "jut out" at the back and front of the camera body? if you get what i am trying to say.

Unless i am missing the point here

JJ_SO

My D7K has delayed exposure mode which basically does that automatically. I've never used MUP on that camera yet - I wonder if I am missing a trick?

Only if you not like to decide yourself when the shutter takes action. With nightshots or static subjects, it makes no difference but if you're waiting for something special, like observing birds with a long tele, it might be good to decide yourself instead after a fixed interval between Mup and click.

Ade

Would this then be mounting it incorrectly?
http://www.birdsasart.com/giottos.htm

If the place gets mounted onto the camera Vertically to the base of the camera instead of horizontally to the camera base, how much would it "jut out" at the back and front of the camera body? if you get what i am trying to say.

Unless i am missing the point here

Yes, and no.

It's hard to see from the pictures, but they are NOT actually using a Giottos sliding plate like the one on the head you posted earlier. Instead, they are using a Wimberley P-5 plate which is designed for SLRs. The P-5 does not have an "anti-rotation" pin and is meant to be mounted "sideways".

BUT, the HEAD they are using is designed to work with the square (short) plate, not a longer plate.

To use the P-5 plate, they had to modify the head by removing the single safety catch. Bad idea!!

Then they complained that when the head is turned vertical, the longer plate now bangs against the tripod (d'oh!) So they suggest shifting the camera off-center when shooting verticals.

At this point, one should ask: Why? Why? Why??!!

If they just got the right QR head and plate to begin with, then they didn't have to modify the head to remove the safety catch. They didn't have to buy another plate to replace the one that already came with the head. They didn't have to fiddle with the camera placement to prevent things banging against the tripod.

Looks like they're actually selling this stuff. I don't think they're giving great advice to their customers.

That head (MH 1302-655) is actually an Arca-Swiss compatible head, so had they simply used the correct camera plate they could have avoided all the problems.

To your question, how much would a sliding plate "jut out" when mounted correctly on a SLR, see the second picture I posted above (the one with purple and red lines).

But unless you are also shooting video, I would recommend against getting a head with such a sliding plate QR. An Arca-Swiss type system is preferable for stills.

If you will be shooting video, it's pretty hard to avoid the sliding plate as it's pretty standard in the video world.

Msmoto

For a beginner the information here may be a bit much. And, even with the ARCA Swiss plates/clamps the various manufacturers have different ways of avoiding sliding the camera or lens out the end of the clamp.

Thus, the decision, after thoroughly reading all this stuff, might be best done with direct examination of the various goodies. A trip to a good store can solve a lot of issues in deciding and B & H, Adorama, or other in NYC would be a super choice. Or get together with other photographers and ask questions.

Parke1953

It has been some time since i have logged in. Moved from California to Texas. I am also looking for a tripod and head and came across this Sirui M-3004 Tripod and K-30x Ball Head $375 at a local store. Tripod is rated at about 40lb and the head at 66lb. Does anyone have any comments on this system. I will be using a D800 and a 80-400 with TC ( don't have the lens yet but am over half way with the $$$).