Beginners Tripod

JJ_SO

@Gitzo, sorry not to read two massive posts, but while reading spraynpray's answer, it popped in my eyes your believing any camera body would have aluminium threads for tripod screws.

I don't know any camera where this thread can't be changed and also no body in my collection has a tripod socket made of such soft material, chromed brass or stainless steel is the choice of the designers. And even with the custom made plates you need a certain torque because otherwise the screws get loose. This torque is also sufficient for rubber covered plates

Usually, QR plates are going to stay at the body otherwise "quick-release" doesn't make sense. The screws don't wear the body's tripod socket down.

Gitzo

This thread is a classic example of how very different, different people think; I have never been able to resist replying to a tripod thread; it seems like everyone has his or her favorite tripod and ball head, and often to the exclusion of other "brands"; I really don't think it's possible to make a case for why any one brand of tripod or ball head is "the best"; there are just TOO many personal considerations to take into account; the "best", sturdiest, solidest tripod owned by one person will be disliked intensely by another person because it's "too heavy"; tripods are like airplanes in one sense; the heavier they are, the stronger they tend to be, but "heavier" airplanes also suffer from relatively "poorer" fuel efficiency; the same can be said of tripods; obviously, heavier ones are relatively "harder" to lug around.

Gitzo

@JJ_SO........#1. I'm fully aware that tripod socket threads in camera bodies can be replaced...(at GREAT cost.)
#2. I'm also aware that some are made from different metals, including stainless steel (better cameras), AND aluminum, (less expensive cameras) #3. As for how much torque is required to attach QR plates to camera bodies; much of what I have learned about this subject, I learn from conversations with the folks at Really Right Stuff, who I'm convinced, know what they are talking about; (they have also explained, (in great detail), why adding soft resilient materials (such as rubber and cork) to QR plates is a bad idea. #4. I have been attaching quality QR plates to my camera bodies (and lens "feet") for a number of years now, and I have never had one become "loose" yet, and in addition, I have never had to have a tripod socket replaced, (at great expense), leading me to think that I must be doing "something right".

Gitzo

While we're on the subject of ball heads.........I just picked up the latest issue of Shutterbug last evening, and on page 102, there is a photo (an advertisement), for Arca Swiss ball heads; it seems that their "latest & greatest", (the monoball Z), can withstand a 60 kg (122 lbs) off-axis load without "creep". the advert doesn't mention a price. Why is this ball head so great ? It's lighter, (presumably than my B-1 which it replaced), and it also has "gravity compensation" PLUS "progressive motion related friction control" ! ( I don't see how I'll be able to resist buying one !)

JJ_SO

@Gitzo, after going through two dozens bodies without replacing the tripod thread I suspect, I also was doing something right It's pretty tough to rip out the threads of a tripod connection. Next time I'm in a big store for cameras and stuff, I try to find one with aluminum threads, there's always a first time.

So keep on being happy with your stuff, as I am with mine, rubber and cork included

Msmoto

Topic is

Beginner's Tripod.....of which I was reminded

syn3rgy

Again, Thank you to everyone for their contributions in helping me on a quest for a tripod and head. I have to say, for a beginner it has been a bit overwhelming and didn't think there are so many aspects to take into considerations.

While i agree with the concept of doing something "right the first time" to try and balance this with budget is taking some compromise.


I have decided that while you can get a tripod and head and my initial budget, it would be worth it and more beneficial in the long run to increase this a bit. (not by too much).

Since Msmoto mentioned the Induro tripod and i have looked at it a bit more (online) hard to find places IN London that stocks a wide variety of tripods, I am leading towards the Induro CT214 Carbon 8X Tripod. It seems to have the right balance of weight\max height\min height\collapsed height, 4 leg extensions (3 may be better) and supports sufficient load 12KG, 26lbs for you US peeps

If anyone can mention something that I am missing or really should not consider or purchase this tripod, do let me know.


Right, Ball head...
Now, I am absolutely blown away with the amount of information\personal preference\costs\QR Places\arca-swiss etc etc and for a beginner have been completely overwhelmed.

I know everyone states to spare no expense on the head however, not always possible. It might not be much, but I think i may be able to expand my budget to £100-£125.

I do like the Giottos heads such as:
Giottos MH1300-621 Series II Ball Head
http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-giottos-mh1300-621-series-ii-ball-head/p1025892

However, I am now concerned about the Video pin that has been spoken about, also, the amount that the QR plate will just out the back of the camera (potentially getting in the way)

What do you all think about ball heads in the above price range and or this head. I have also tried to look at pictures on the net etc and it weirdly shows most pictures looking like this:
http://www.bristolcameras.co.uk/p-giottos-mh1300-621-series-2-ball-head.htm


Thanks again for all your input and valuable contributions

JJ_SO

I think, I consumed (bought and sold or returned) about 5 different ballheads to end up with this: http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-gitzo-gh3780-centre-ball-head/p1026622
After modifying it to take a Manfrotto 394 QR I'm very happy about it. I don't want to convince you. Also, I'm not a purely all-time-happy consumer of Gitzo, but this one is cute. Why? The knob is superbig. It has an adjustment screw in the center, so you can easily set the limits of friction when untightening. I don't like a collection of three different screws and never knowing which is for what. The designer of the Gitzo had ergonomics clearly in mind.

The ball's movement is very smooth, the angles of movement are huge, even in portrait mode. It's precise and although looking massive, it's a lightweight. The ball is not 100% spherical. On his "equator" the diameter's slightly bigger than from "North-to-South Pole". That's giving more friction on turning it 90 degrees to portrait mode. I'm happy about it although the price is brain-amputated. If tightened, it's stiff and holding 21 kg without a problem. I don't need a wrench to unlock. This smooth operation is what you pay for - two little more than I'd consider the worth, but it's useless to complain.

By the way, their QR systems really sucks. Different plates, not interchangeable, either too tiny or too massive under the bottom plate of the cam. I had to modify all their heads and wanted to havE the same QR as I have on a geared 3-way head, I had no choice. Okay, buying Arca D4 for $ 1k would have been a choice. For geared heads it's mostly Manfrotto.

My comments at your choice are: the plates are for movie cams or long teles. For movie cams a 2-way head seems better, for long teles a Gimbal head. So, they want to be a lot at the same time and failed in my eyes. The plate is stable, but not quick releasing in my experience. Too much knobs/screws, some of them on the wrong side in my eyes. It looks a bit like a hedgehog, but I admit, my weak point is looking for ergonomics and elegance.

If you start fresh, I'd recommend Sirui ball head and their Arca-Swiss copy of QR. Appears to be good value. K20X holds up to 25 kg and is available in CH at around 100£.

syn3rgy

HI JJ_SO,

Thank you for your reply. Have to admit, the gitzo is a little out of budget, however, i agree with you on the other points raised with the giottos.

the sirui looks quite nice and promising. one thing i am curious about is the QR place. you recommended getting teh Arca-Swiss copy of it that Sirui do, what is the difference between that and the QR plate that comes with the Sirui ball head? also, all the sites recommend the TY60 QR plate, how do you know which one is best\appropriate for the K20x?

Thank you
Rob

Msmoto

All the numbers are confusing for me, but, the Giottos MH1300-621 Series 2 Ball Head, appears to have nice ergonomics......IMO one thing to make certain a ball-head has is the "pretension" adjustment so as to prevent the ball from releasing fully as one adjusts it. I prefer this adjustment be with a knob, as I change it depending on the lens/body combination.

This thread has a lot of good information in it and weather one likes Manfrotto, ARCA Swiss, or other QR plates, is purely personal preference.

One note about the "Video pin"..... I drill the foot of the long lenses so as to accept the pin or, another mounting screw. When carrying a monopod/tripod and long lens on one's shoulder it is not good if the unit rotates around the single mounting screw....like bad....This can shift weight and pull you off your feet or cause the camera to fall.

JJ_SO

@syn3rgy As I said, I really don't want to convince you for Gitzo, I was just telling about the things I like on mine. I think - but the Arca QR plate owners know better - there are only two types of Arca couplings: Classic and Monoball Fix Classic has more tradition, Monoball fix is meant for smaller cams. There are special Arca connectors for both plates. I guess Sirui has decided to go Classic. That would be my choice, too.

What I don't like at the Giottos Ball head are 3 knobs, but also the screw to fix the "swallow tail"-plate in it's guidance. Sometimes there's a camera in the way and it's tricky to tighten that screw. The video pins are eitehr removable (Manfrotto) or come with a spring underneath, so they disappear inside the plate if there's no pinhole to fit in.

@Msmoto I agree with the pretension, I just don't like the way some ballhead manufacturers design it. Most of the time I was using a ballhead with 3 knobs I got confused which is the panoramic and which the friction/pretension function. The Manfrotto MH055M8 for instance has not less than 7 knobs with different functions - overkill, some of them are working poorly and the predestination of the head, photo and video, both doesn't work too creamy.

With the Gitzo ballhead I found it quite intuitively. It's easy to use, because they made it as a mechanical stop.

Camera on the ballhead.
Tighten the main knob that the cam just moves
Turn the little screw in center of the main knob ccw until it gets resistance
Now I can tighten the main knob fully and when untightening, it's never losing the tension I already set up.
The main knob turns easily in each direction, no matter how firm the ball is fixed.
It can't happen unwillingly so I have a really fine adjustment, even without the pretension offset.

I can do that without looking at it - that's what I want when using a tripod. I need all eyes to frame.

sideways

I was looking at Sirui a couple of days ago. The smaller models that I was looking at are very similar to the Korean Photoclam tripods but in my view the build quality like the price is lower. After debating the tripod question with myself for a long time i've decided to go for a gitzo traveller which I'll use with an acratech head. Light and compact are the things that matter most to me so fingers crossed this will be a lifetime buy and my little used beginners items will head for ebay !

Msmoto

Here is my Manfrotto which has been converted to ARCA Swiss. The "pre-tension" knob is the small one in the center of the main tension knob on the right. This allows a similar situation as the mechanical stop on the Gitzo as it is also a mechanical stop on the Manfrotto. I set it months ago and have not adjusted it since. The large paddle on the base is the pan adjustment. This is a very nice head to use, but of course it has been converted to ARCA Swiss.



I wonder if Manfrotto makes an ARCA Swiss head? One note...IMO it is essential to have a second locking pin in place if one converts the head. I have seen some conversions on uTube where this is not done.

JJ_SO

The Gitzo plates are fixed with 3 countersink screws. Some of the newer Manfrotto heads have sort of a guidance, so it's not possible to turn the plates, even if these are fixed with only one screw. You're ballhead follows the same principle and I guess it's also quite easy and intuitively to use. In my eyes that's the way to do. The newer ballheads of Manfrotto with the fancy design come with too much knobs as well, I never knew which one I'm turning now.

So far, I could combine each head with the plates, but I use a small milling machine for model makers to modify them. I don't think, Manfrotto provides a good Arca plate or adapter. There's this Gitzo adapter thing, that could work with one of Manfrotto's QR. But a good and stable connection usually excludes the use of adapters.

Also, the amount of movement while tightening the ballhead can make a big difference. The MH055 I talked about is really crap in this aspect, doing macro with it is a pain.

spraynpray

I really like the 2 control arrangement that you are talking about as my Slik has the three knobs which often has me fumbling. I cannot see any point in having a pan function that is below the ball though, I think life is waaay too short to fiddle endlessly with legs for level. For me, perfection would be no pan knob on my Slik so maybe I will modify it perhaps replace it with a flush screw or something. Oh goodie - a new project!

syn3rgy

hmm Just found this Polish site that sells the Sirui K-20x Ball head.
£67.27 ex shipping which will be about £10

http://foto-tip.pl/en/sirui-g-3.html

Im beginning to think that this head, coupled with the Induro tripod may be a good setup?

JJ_SO

@spraynpray it has mechanical reasons. The shell of the ball with it's cut for portrait mode needs to be turnable. And if you like to fix the ballhead on a tripod, the ball head's thread needs to be clamped, otherwise you could not fix it. I don't get the point why most manufacturers put angle scales on it. The easiest way for panoramic turns is directly under the cam, not under the ball head. It's nearly impossible to bring ball head and tripod in alignment for panorama purposes. Some ball heads, like the expensive Arca-Swiss, come with this feature.

The off-center ball heads of Gitzo need that turn to be fully flexible, but after two attempts of getting a good one I gave up. One was screeching, the other was assembled badly. Those systems were developed by Gitzo France, when they got bought by Vitec, the quality went down. I still have an old French one but it is too small for bigger loads.

spraynpray

@spraynpray it has mechanical reasons. The shell of the ball with it's cut for portrait mode needs to be turnable.
.

Of course.

I don't think you get what I mean JJ - or if you do, that isn't clear to me from what you have written. Let's go again:

If the QD plate is a circular plate, you just loosen the clamp and rotate as required after leveling the ball head. This removes completely the need to level the legs. The ability to rotate the head for portrait/landscape still is present below the ball head.

I really don't get this whole 'Arca-Swiss' thing, it is like it is the best or only QD plate there is whereas it is just another solution among many. Like I said before, different strokes for different folks.

sevencrossing

Mods is there any chance, of splitting this interesting tread

Lightweight tripods
Medium weight Tripods

ball heads
video heads
I think there is already a thread on plates

syn3rgy

OK. I think i am just about there.

Tripod
Induro CT214 Carbon 8X Tripod - £359
http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-induro-ct214-carbon-8x-tripod/p1527192

Ball Head
Sirui K-20X - £67.27
http://foto-tip.pl/en/sirui-g-3.html

Grand Total
£426.27 ex Shipping (about £14)


Any reasons not to get this combination?

Msmoto

Mods is there any chance, of splitting this interesting tread

Lightweight tripods
Medium weight Tripods

ball heads
video heads
I think there is already a thread on plates

Mods?......

This thread has developed its own branches and I have no problem with someone starting a thread on the following topics. I think they are all reasonable and will make the discussions more accessible.

1) Heavy Duty Tripod Heads which could include Panorama Heads

2) Lightweight Tripods for Backpacking

FYI, a couple of previous threads, Old NRF, are here:

http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=590

http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=10308

http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=2610

Good luck....

JJ_SO

Yes we can?

proudgeek

I couldn't bring myself to read five pages of tripod POVs. So here's my take on the OP's question; sorry if I'm being repetitive.

I took a look at the tripod.

Pros:
Very light, you'll love carrying this.
Five leg sections is very compact. It'll fit like a dream on any backpack. I've got a much bigger tripod and it's a pain to travel with.
Seems reasonably sturdy for the lens/body combo you're currently using

Cons:
When fully extended, five-section legs are less stable than legs with three or four sections
While it's probably sturdy enough for your 28-300, I'm not sure I'd go much heavier. If you see a 70-200 in your future I'd think twice about this.
The minimum height seems to indicate that the legs don't splay, meaning you can't get this really close to the ground (a feature I use a lot for macro work). The also appears to be no center column (despite the reference to one in one of the reviews). I also like this feature for macro work.

For what you've got now, this probably works well. If you expand your kit, you might find yourself tripod shopping again soon.

sevencrossing

proudgeek

Very light, you'll love carrying this.
Five leg sections is very compact. It'll fit like a dream on any backpack. I've got a much bigger tripod and it's a pain to travel with.

Correct


While it's probably sturdy enough for your 28-300, I'm not sure I'd go much heavier. If you see a 70-200 in your future I'd think twice about this.

I use it with a D800 and the new 80 -400 it's fine


The minimum height seems to indicate that the legs don't splay, meaning you can't get this really close to the ground

the legs do splay and it can be use very low


The also appears to be no center column

it does


For what you've got now, this probably works well. If you expand your kit, you might find yourself tripod shopping again soon

Correct

it wont support a heavy gimbal or pano head, you do need a proper and heavy tripod for this

proudgeek

I stand corrected.